Combinator 2 ideas of mine

[Heigen5]

combinator2_aka_Suite.png (425.7 KiB) Viewed 4058 times

Here's my take on the combinator 2. The sketch above is what it could approximately be.

I would like that all the stocks and rack extensions would donor us their oscs, filters, shapers, effects etc so we could build new instruments and effects by choosing the parts form the dropdown-menus (like shown above).

As 4 +4 more knobs and buttons alone ain't worth it. The matrix and step sequncer could be shown/collapsed to save space. Anyway maybe all the RE and the stock parts could be added into the Reason Core-bank so everyone could always load a combi 2 even if they don't own Antidote or any other RE. Those who don't own a specific kind of RE couldn't be able to tweak those parts that they don't own. Fair enough?

We would also need standard sizes for every part to make it look good.

Just my 0.2 cents.

[aeox]

This wouldn't be possible.


Though I think it would be cool to have a modular way to setup our own synth layout that controls everything hidden in the combinator.

What you are proposing just isn't logical, unfortunately.

[Heigen5]

This wouldn't be possible.


Though I think it would be cool to have a modular way to setup our own synth layout that controls everything hidden in the combinator.

What you are proposing just isn't logical, unfortunately.

This is like saying that coding this into a new DAW isn't possible either.
Edit: could at least elaborate that why isn't this possible, please?

[pushedbutton]

I think the problem would be solved by a combicombinator.
Another combinator that hosts combinators.
OP's original suggestion just tacks on stuff that we could either choose to add ourselves or not.

[Heigen5]

I think the problem would be solved by a combicombinator.
Another combinator that hosts combinators.
OP's original suggestion just tacks on stuff that we could either choose to add ourselves or not.

Could you also elaborate that what you mean?

[aeox]

This wouldn't be possible.


Though I think it would be cool to have a modular way to setup our own synth layout that controls everything hidden in the combinator.

What you are proposing just isn't logical, unfortunately.

This is like saying that coding this into a new DAW isn't possible either.
Edit: could at least elaborate that why isn't this possible, please?

Well, you're asking for every RE device to be adapted for modular use of every component within the synth? To me, it seems self-explanatory as to how that wouldn't be possible.

If they made a device which hosts a new "modular environment" which RE developers can make modules for, that would be a different story.

[Heigen5]

If they made a device which hosts a new "modular environment" which RE developers can make modules for, that would be a different story.

it was pretty clear that making modules for the combi2 is what I was after on in the first place though. But no-body could tweak any module if they don't own it. I was also suggesting the 'core-bank' for the modules so we could collab without a need to own REs that we don't own. So if I'd collab with a Reason user X, I could load any module but not only tweak it.

On the business side though, maybe all the modules could cost something too... if youd buy the combi2 off the RE shop maybe?

[pushedbutton]

I think the problem would be solved by a combicombinator.
Another combinator that hosts combinators.
OP's original suggestion just tacks on stuff that we could either choose to add ourselves or not.

Could you also elaborate that what you mean?

A higher level combinator that incorporates the programming options of the existing combinators and treats existing combinators like a device so that we can have a tiered level of control, giving us global control over a set of devices that are routed through a built in submixer that can be saved as a patch.
Honestly I thought the word combicombinator was self explanatory, maybe I've been around too long.

[Heigen5]

Could you also elaborate that what you mean?

A higher level combinator that incorporates the programming options of the existing combinators and treats existing combinators like a device so that we can have a tiered level of control, giving us global control over a set of devices that are routed through a built in submixer that can be saved as a patch.
Honestly I thought the word combicombinator was self explanatory, maybe I've been around too long.

Combinator 2 could load a combi1 but this ain't the most important thing in this. But if the Props care much enough then why not. The module thing would be more important. Anyway, A combi 2 should do everything that combi1 does anyway.

[chimp_spanner]

Naaah I can't see any scenario where RE developers would spend any time re-coding bits of their instruments to work in a Combi 2 even if people don't own the original instrument. You'd need to get *every* developer on board and that doesn't account for devs who go inactive or would simply not agree. Plus think about when the last time was that RS even touched a legacy device of their own. Making a separate monetised system just for Combi 2 modules would add so much workload that could be better spent elsewhere IMO!

Not to say I don't want a Combinator II, but all it needs to be is a container with macros. Just more of them. There's a lot of empty space on the current Combinator panel. Pack it all in a bit tighter and there's room for 8 knobs, 8 buttons and then maybe even some extra controls. Perhaps a couple of long-throw faders. Or what about a stepped control where you define the number of steps and discreet values for each step? An XY pad? A 'randomise all contained parameters' button? Drag and drop control assignment?! Lots of exciting things could be done without having to basically invent a new class of module for the rack.

[Heigen5]

You'd need to get *every* developer on board and that doesn't account for devs

Then those devs who wouldn't go for it wouldn't go for it then. If this thing would get them more money it sure would make them appealed more of.

[Spaceship]

I really like the idea of the current instruments being modularized.

If the Combinator 2 had a Reaktor like approach to building, allowing you to combine low level components to create customized devices, I would be very happy.

[fieldframe]

I proposed something along these lines several years ago as a Thor successor. The essential idea was that there would be a Thor SDK added to the RE SDK allowing developers to turn parts of an RE into modular components that would become available in Thor when you install the main RE, similar to how Apple Watch apps are bundled with iPhone apps.

Fully modular Thor 2 concept

Everything is interchangeable
All the original Thor components, even the hard-wired ones, are now modular sub-devices. Everything from the oscillators to the envelopes is treated the same way. Need more envelopes? Add them. Want six oscillators but only one filter? Everything fits in the same slots.

No hard-wired routing
There is still a lot of default routing that appears in the expanded mod matrix, but it can all be changed. There's also auto-routing. Init patch gives you some basics (analog osc, ladder filter, envelopes, mixer), but if you create an additional oscillator, it'll be routed to the mixer, which is auto-routed to the filter. This gives you the convenience of hard-wiring with the flexibility of true modular.

REs can include Thor modules
Inspired by iOS and Android widgets that automatically install when they are included with an app. REs built with the new Thor SDK can include a sound generator, effect, or a CV device that appears in Thor's menu when the RE is installed.

[chimp_spanner]

You'd need to get *every* developer on board and that doesn't account for devs

Then those devs who wouldn't go for it wouldn't go for it then. If this thing would get them more money it sure would make them appealed more of.

Well I dunno man, I guess we just disagree! Not even saying it's necessarily a bad idea. I just mean in terms of what's realistically likely to happen, I don't see this being a thing. Of course maybe it's a challenge some other developer can pick up. Redrock's ModulaRE is an interesting proof of concept in as much as a third party device with swappable modules. But I guess it depends how far they can go with the current SDK.

[Heigen5]

@Spaceship: A Reason's way to be a Reaktor - exactly, this would a dreams come true to all the sound-designers to pull out very good stuff as you can choose between all the modules etc etc.

@fieldframe Hey, my first posting was probably 5 years ago in this manner, kudos. We seem to be very like-minded on this. Nice sketch too bro!

[Heigen5]

Well I dunno man, I guess we just disagree! Not even saying it's necessarily a bad idea. I just mean in terms of what's realistically likely to happen, I don't see this being a thing. Of course maybe it's a challenge some other developer can pick up. Redrock's ModulaRE is an interesting proof of concept in as much as a third party device with swappable modules. But I guess it depends how far they can go with the current SDK.

This would be a move that half of the Reason users would like probably, if not even more. It would suck if the Props would bring out another halfbaked product again. If we want to get a combinator 2 it better be this or even more IMHO!

[joeyluck]

I'd simply like to see a Combinator 2 with a Snap Heap type approach. That workflow is so much faster and more inviting to program. Maybe they can just contract Kilohearts to create a new Combinator?

[jam-s]

combinator2_aka_Suite.png

Here's my take on the combinator 2. The sketch above is what it could approximately be.

I would like that all the stocks and rack extensions would donor us their oscs, filters, shapers, effects etc so we could build new instruments and effects by choosing the parts form the dropdown-menus (like shown above).

As 4 +4 more knobs and buttons alone ain't worth it. The matrix and step sequncer could be shown/collapsed to save space. Anyway maybe all the RE and the stock parts could be added into the Reason Core-bank so everyone could always load a combi 2 even if they don't own Antidote or any other RE. Those who don't own a specific kind of RE couldn't be able to tweak those parts that they don't own. Fair enough?

We would also need standard sizes for every part to make it look good.

Just my 0.2 cents.

I think you're looking for Reaktor Blocks. If you want something like this in Reason, well, you can wait forever or just buy Reaktor.

[Heigen5]

Just wanted to say that if we won't get the modular parts thingy, I'd still love that you Reason Studio guys would make a "Dresser" - i.e. all the combinator1 features, BUT also a way to dress it like in the given example sketch in the first post then. I could mirror the most essential knobs and buttons inside the combi2 to the frontside. I think this idea would be neat so we could dress the inside stuff to look like a new thing. You could call it a "Dresser". You could make a bank of LFO, Filters and other sections without a need to make any parts, but if we could load a filter looking thingy and actually map it to a filter then, then this would be also fine by me. IE. Combi2 would be a dresser only without the Reaktor kind of features.

[pushedbutton]

You can skin a combinator.

[adfielding]

You can skin a combinator.

I think they mean more along the lines of creating a custom front-end for a chain of devices, so instead of having the stock 4 knobs/4 buttons approach it'd allow for a more customisable front-end.

I don't think the fully modular approach of a Combinator 2 is particularly realistic (though I think something like the Thor 2 idea above is more in-line with what I'd like to see), but I do very much like the idea of a more flexible Combinator front-end with deeper connectivity, and I think that's much more within the realms of possibility.

[mcatalao]

IMHO, I think you're describing more a "complex 3" device than a combinator 2.

I say this because the combinator is and should stay a blank canvas, as a combining tool for everything.
IMO, the combinator could evolve to more and more and more controls, like 8* 4 controls, it would be GREAT!!!! And this should work also on the SSL insert Combi, even if you couldn't have the whole lot of buttons on the ssl, but they would be remotable.

[MirrorEyEs]

I think the foundations have already been laid with players, the way you can drag units about and the drag to mod matrix slots. I suspect we'll get macro control units in that mould with some-kind of dynamic routing matrix.

[Heigen5]

You can skin a combinator.

I think they mean more along the lines of creating a custom front-end for a chain of devices, so instead of having the stock 4 knobs/4 buttons approach it'd allow for a more customisable front-end.

I don't think the fully modular approach of a Combinator 2 is particularly realistic (though I think something like the Thor 2 idea above is more in-line with what I'd like to see), but I do very much like the idea of a more flexible Combinator front-end with deeper connectivity, and I think that's much more within the realms of possibility.

Yuppy! This is at least realistic compared to my re-parts thing I firstly suggested. Glad you also think it would be bueno Ad!

[scratchnsnifff]

This is like saying that coding this into a new DAW isn't possible either.
Edit: could at least elaborate that why isn't this possible, please?

Well, you're asking for every RE device to be adapted for modular use of every component within the synth? To me, it seems self-explanatory as to how that wouldn't be possible.

If they made a device which hosts a new "modular environment" which RE developers can make modules for, that would be a different story.

There is probably a way for RS to make something that can tap into the the code of each synth in the shop

The weird part would be ripping the UI/porting the UI to the new design of this idea


I mean, RS already can port their existing REs to Mobile, which can be used in hardware, which can be used in the web

I think this specific team of developers would be the team to figure something like this out.

It would be cool, but i agree that they wouldn’t do it

Probably something like the combinator but with more knobs and mod matrix slots plus in built modulation would be more likely
Alongside more modern ways of routing to knobs and matrix slots