Improve Adding/Removing Sequencer Notes

[owlymane]

Am I the only one here that finds "double-clicking" to add and remove notes/steps in the sequencer extremely annoying? I feel like it's such a workflow-killer especially for drum programming. And it seriously damages the trackpad to constantly double click.

Why can't they just make it one click to add instead? I mean this is such a basic shortcut all modern VSTs and DAWs have a way to roll notes (when I say roll I mean creating several notes one after the other as you're holding click).

[esselfortium]

I don't think I'd like having notes disappear when I single-click on them... It's pretty standard UI behavior to select something by single-clicking on it.

I don't even use the double-click shortcut, though. Ever since it was added a few versions ago, I've only done it by accident. When I want to delete notes I just click-select or drag-select them and hit backspace. Or just click the misplaced note and drag it to where I want it to be.

Another way of deleting notes: You can also press E to switch to the eraser, click the notes to delete them, then press Q to go back to the arrow. I usually keep my left hand around the common keyboard shortcuts when I'm editing notes in Reason.

[owlymane]

I don't even use the double-click shortcut, though. Ever since it was added a few versions ago, I've only done it by accident. When I want to delete notes I just click-select or drag-select them and hit backspace. Or just click the misplaced note and drag it to where I want it to be.

I agree to remove it's much faster to backspace. But to add, for example I make a lot of modern hip hop drum programming which require long loops to be filled with a lot of variations. I find myself double-clicking so frequently I seriously get small finger cramps because of how much I double-clicked haha (nothing dramatic, but just saying it's tiring)

Another way of deleting notes: You can also press E to switch to the eraser, click the notes to delete them, then press Q to go back to the arrow. I usually keep my left hand around the common keyboard shortcuts when I'm editing notes in Reason.

Yes shortcuts are the best and I hope they add more of them for windows

[esselfortium]

I don't think I'd like having notes disappear when I single-click on them... It's pretty standard UI behavior to select something by single-clicking on it.

True, but what's the point of moving a note inside a sequencer when you can create another one faster? There's no point in moving notes really, unless you want to quantize, which gets you back to the circle of creating a new note in the space. But say you really want to select THAT note and move it, maybe click and hold, then move can be a way? I don't know if I'm being clear let me know if you got my point. I def got yours.

Hmm. We each use the sequencer very differently I guess I'd usually rather move a note than add a new one so that I don't lose its existing velocity, length, and any off-grid timing adjustments.

More customization options would be nice so we could each make things work the way that feels best to us.

[owlymane]

I'd usually rather move a note than add a new one so that I don't lose its existing velocity, length, and any off-grid timing adjustments.

I use ctrl/cmd + D to duplicate a configured note. I never said anything about not wanting to be able to move notes. I just need a way to roll notes and a faster way to place/remove them

More customization options would be nice so we could each make things work the way that feels best to us.

Agreed!

[selig]

I don’t agree there’s no point in moving notes! I do it all the time. Sometimes I drag a note, sometimes I use the inspector (which I love).
Single click to delete also makes no sense to me. One convention of computers is that first you select something, then to perform an action on that selection, be it text, spreadsheet cells, graphic objects, etc.

I’m also a huge fan of consistency in a UI, and in Reason you can select anything by clicking on it. This includes notes of course, but also automation points, clips of all sorts, devices in the rack, mixer channels, items in the browser, etc. I think it would be less confusing to have this behavior than to have SOME items disappear when you select them by clicking, while others simply get selected.

That’s my view, fwiw, but from a design perspective I do enjoy hearing points of view that are different from mine if just to remind me there are MANY different ways of working!

[owlymane]

I don’t agree there’s no point in moving notes! I do it all the time. Sometimes I drag a note, sometimes I use the inspector (which I love).
Single click to delete also makes no sense to me. One convention of computers is that first you select something, then to perform an action on that selection, be it text, spreadsheet cells, graphic objects, etc.

I’m also a huge fan of consistency in a UI, and in Reason you can select anything by clicking on it. This includes notes of course, but also automation points, clips of all sorts, devices in the rack, mixer channels, items in the browser, etc. I think it would be less confusing to have this behavior than to have SOME items disappear when you select them by clicking, while others simply get selected.

That’s my view, fwiw, but from a design perspective I do enjoy hearing points of view that are different from mine if just to remind me there are MANY different ways of working!

OK first let me clear my view on moving notes. I want to be able to move notes. Yes it's useful in the case of parameters, but it's not the most useful thing in the sequencer. It's good that I'm able to move notes but I add and remove notes much more frequently.

I’m also a huge fan of consistency in a UI, and like you said the UI is built around click=select and move. But it also needs to be clever. I click on the automation to move it, I click on a rack knob to move it, but in the case of the sequencer, it's evident even from this post that we each interact with notes/steps differently. When I click on a note I want it to be selected, at this point we agree. When you click and drag you want it to move, this where I come in to suggest maybe you can click+hold+drag to move the note, click+drag to roll notes. From my perspective and style of production, I focus on drums and drum variation and with Reason it takes so much time to program because of that "double-click" functionality, and most importantly, it doesn't provide me the tool to roll steps.

I think rolling notes/steps is an essential tool nowadays that many producers create in all DAWs, and I think it's a poor design decision to not be able to place this functionality because of an old-fashioned structure.

Maybe change the cursor options inside the sequencer rather than the whole DAW ? Maybe, for example, since Redrum has its own sequencer view (steps) compared to a synth (piano roll), they can make it that Redrum pattern inserting is the same inside the redrum's sequencer section and the rack?(same for Kong)
Redrum has an amazing feel of adding/removing steps.

Another idea, stop the double-click! and add the right-click to remove instead! This is how FL operates

[owlymane]

btw, thank you for the Leveler, DeEsser and Gain REs! Fantastic work <3

[selig]

Sounds like your biggest request is to "roll" notes as you draw, which is common. It's not a new concept either - Hell, even MIDI Paint, a sequencer I used back in the mid 1980s, had this feature (painting "repeating" notes on the grid). For drums an other repeating patterns it would speed things up greatly, so "+1" to that request!

[owlymane]

Sounds like your biggest request is to "roll" notes as you draw, which is common. It's not a new concept either - Hell, even MIDI Paint, a sequencer I used back in the mid 1980s, had this feature (painting "repeating" notes on the grid). For drums an other repeating patterns it would speed things up greatly, so "+1" to that request!

My biggest request is actually to improve the editing actions for notes/steps inside the sequencer. Instead of having to use the limiting selection, pencil, eraser tool seperately everytime, they can simplify things and give us a more practical way of dealing with notes. Clicking once inside the sequencer doesn't do any action besides the selecting tool, unless you're in pencil tool, which also has a flaw : can't remove the notes already created, you need to switch to eraser tool for that, and so on... And yes exactly rolling notes is such an old technique yet still relevant!

Props could possibly do the following inside the piano roll:

1 click = creates note or selects it
click note and move = moves it
double-click on the note when selected = removes it
alt(win)/opt(mac) = select mode

shift + click and move right = rolls notes (on grid)
shift + click and move left= splits note (on grid)
shift + move up/down = move +/- 1 octave

^ That would be great

[jedirobots]

I've been keeping tabs on this forum to see if there is any news of Reason working on these sorts of make-or-break improvements.

For the past 2 months I've been using FL Studio (somewhat in conjunction), as I've been feeling that Reason is lacking quite a few things that are becoming more and more obvious over time as I watch videos of users working with other DAWS such as ableton/studio one... and I have to say FL Studio's piano roll is near-to bulletproof. The use of right-click to remove notes, hitting a single button to arpeggiate, split notes, strum, shift up and down, longate/bridge etc etc is fantastic.

Using the FL piano roll has literally split the time spent on creating melodies by mouse/midi controller, in half. And the amazing part of it is that this isn't limited to just melodies, it can be applied to drums to easily change pitch, velocity, panning with a single shortcut and not even the new Reason drum sequencer utility is able to match FL's fluidity.

These small things add up over time and I now use FL Studio to begin creating my music before porting over to Reason to get extra-creative (at a much slower pace).

[owlymane]

I've been keeping tabs on this forum to see if there is any news of Reason working on these sorts of make-or-break improvements.

For the past 2 months I've been using FL Studio (somewhat in conjunction), as I've been feeling that Reason is lacking quite a few things that are becoming more and more obvious over time as I watch videos of users working with other DAWS such as ableton/studio one... and I have to say FL Studio's piano roll is near-to bulletproof. The use of right-click to remove notes, hitting a single button to arpeggiate, split notes, strum, shift up and down, longate/bridge etc etc is fantastic.

Using the FL piano roll has literally split the time spent on creating melodies by mouse/midi controller, in half. And the amazing part of it is that this isn't limited to just melodies, it can be applied to drums to easily change pitch, velocity, panning with a single shortcut and not even the new Reason drum sequencer utility is able to match FL's fluidity.

These small things add up over time and I now use FL Studio to begin creating my music before porting over to Reason to get extra-creative (at a much slower pace).

I couldn't have said it better. I started using FL in 06 and then completely moved to Reason ever since. This year I got FL 20 and Ableton 10. I was literally annoyed of how much faster I could finish songs compared to my time inside Reason. To the point where I wondered whether Propellerhead does a competitive analysis in their market, or are they just stuck in their own little bubble counting on their devs and their community to progress the DAW.

I mean a simple A/B comparison between the 3 sequencers (Ableto, FL, Reason) is enough to show how much Reason's sequencer is lacking. All those edits you mentioned (arpeggiate, split, strum, shift octaves, etc..) are life-changing compared to the inefficient and "empty" reason sequencer. So much can be done that can tremendously accelerate workflow.

Simple things like:

-Being able to drag and drop wav/mp3 samples from the browser directly inside a device in the sequencer (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7512888)
- Better Browser Sample Previews (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7512882)
- TOTAL rework of piano roll key commands. It'd be nice if it acts like mentioned in my previous message

Piano roll actions:

1 click = creates note or selects it
click note and move = moves note
double-click on the note when selected = removes note
alt(win)/opt(mac) = select mode

shift + click and move right = rolls notes (on grid)
shift + click and move left= splits note (on grid)
shift + move up/down = move +/- 1 octave

- Better Zooming
- A sign showing whether the "follow song" mode is activated or not in the sequencer
- Include Recycle inside Reason or improve audio warping, syncing and a better way to detect tempo

And surely I'd love to see all the other things people have mentioned countless of times. But for me, I won't be upgrading to any other Reason version unless there's a proper sequencer revamp that gives me quality of life improvements.

[Creativemind]

The left click adds and right click removes is brilliant from FL Studio.

[owlymane]

The left click adds and right click removes is brilliant from FL Studio.

Yes. And the more you dive into FL's sequencer the more you'll reazlie how much of its functionalities are life improving. I hope Reason gets inspired by it.

Honestly, I hope Props have copies of every modern and popular DAW that they're using for competitive analysis and feature implementation.

[Creativemind]

The left click adds and right click removes is brilliant from FL Studio.

Yes. And the more you dive into FL's sequencer the more you'll reazlie how much of its functionalities are life improving. I hope Reason gets inspired by it.

Honestly, I hope Props have copies of every modern and popular DAW that they're using for competitive analysis and feature implementation.

Yeah like the chord painting (if that's the correct name) and I like the remember last note length and clicking a different note length than the last pasted note length changes the next note length to be pasted thing (what a mouthful lol!). I also love how you can hold the right mouse button down and scribble / rub out. Very cool. Oh and have you seen 'Dump To Piano Roll' in FL? Nearly wept when I found that feature after I fluked a really good chord sequence I hadn't recorded.

Truncated notes / midi chase should be standard as well.

I saw another couple of great ones on a Logic video the other day as well. Select all, then you could do a shortcut to remove note overlaps, great idea and if you selected notes above each other in the piano roll it tells you what chord it is at the top of the midi editor.

There's literally about 20 features I want Propellerhead to put into the midi editor.

[owlymane]

Yeah like the chord painting (if that's the correct name) and I like the remember last note length and clicking a different note length than the last pasted note length changes the next note length to be pasted thing (what a mouthful lol!). I also love how you can hold the right mouse button down and scribble / rub out. Very cool.

Exactly!! It's in the details but it improves workflow x2 at least!

Oh and have you seen 'Dump To Piano Roll' in FL? Nearly wept when I found that feature after I fluked a really good chord sequence I hadn't recorded.

I did not! I just watched a video about it. That's great!! It's kind of like Capture Midi for Ableton. See! Again. Something both those DAWs have but Reason hasn't...

Truncated notes / midi chase should be standard as well.

Standard Like you said. I mean seriously...

I saw another couple of great ones on a Logic video the other day as well. Select all, then you could do a shortcut to remove note overlaps, great idea and if you selected notes above each other in the piano roll it tells you what chord it is at the top of the midi editor.

That's really great! I personally haven't used Logic but I've seen a couple of vids as well (when 10 came out I think, YT suggested a couple of vids) about it's Track folder mgmt. But yeah, those sequencer functionalities save so much time indeed!

There's literally about 20 features I want Propellerhead to put into the midi editor.

I completely agree with you. If 11 does not rigorously update and refine the sequencer, they will be lightyears behind other DAWs. They also won't be having my money for sure..

[Creativemind]

When you use these other daw's then return to Reason it feels like you've gone back 10 years.

[Busta US]

Am I the only one here that finds "double-clicking" to add and remove notes/steps in the sequencer extremely annoying? I feel like it's such a workflow-killer especially for drum programming. And it seriously damages the trackpad to constantly double click.

Why can't they just make it one click to add instead? I mean this is such a basic shortcut all modern VSTs and DAWs have a way to roll notes (when I say roll I mean creating several notes one after the other as you're holding click).

Owly ...we need to collab bro. I was checking the forum to see if anyone else had something to say about that. Turns out the person that produces the same genre as I do This is EXACTLY how I feel about it. Literally! I hope Reason will listen to us

Check my stuff:

[Busta US]

Am I the only one here that finds "double-clicking" to add and remove notes/steps in the sequencer extremely annoying? I feel like it's such a workflow-killer especially for drum programming. And it seriously damages the trackpad to constantly double click.

Why can't they just make it one click to add instead? I mean this is such a basic shortcut all modern VSTs and DAWs have a way to roll notes (when I say roll I mean creating several notes one after the other as you're holding click).

Owly ...we need to collab bro. I was checking the forum to see if anyone else had something to say about that. Turns out the person that produces the same genre as I do This is EXACTLY how I feel about it. Literally! I hope Reason will listen to us

Check my stuff:

[tomas phusion]

hello fellow reasoner
i dont know if you are still finding this annoying, but there is one easy fix for this, go into the mouse settings in control panel and turn the double click option all the way to the top, when we double click to open programs etc, we do it super fast anyway, and when i delete a note in reason, i know i didnt do it as fast as if i was opening something on my desk top and now i dont delete a note anymore. i hope you already found a solution, if not, i hope this helps.
peace.