Add Virtual MIDI cable routing on the rack

Have any feature requests? No promise they'll get to Reason Studios, but you can still discuss them here.
DonnieAlan
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Joined: 25 Jan 2017

Post 03 Jun 2019

With so many possibilities with players and such, it would be awesome to have virtual MIDI cables in the rack, much like audio cables now, that we can route MIDI from/to anything that can send or receive MIDI. Include a MIDI version of SPYDER too, so we can send multiple outs from one in etc. The creative possibilities for setting up complex patches in the Combinator, for example, would be endless!

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diminished
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Post 03 Jun 2019

Yes please.
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boingy
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Post 03 Jun 2019

And it's a big fat yes from me too, but only if it includes VSTs.

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ljekio
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Post 03 Jun 2019

Polyphonic midi signal (note/gate) you can duplicate by MIDI-CV converter Player.
Monophonic control changes (CC) can convert into CV and otherwise RPG-8 and Thor.

The only problem i have in this - lack of ability to send "performance controls" (expression, sustain, breath, etc) to VST by CV directly.

DonnieAlan
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Post 03 Jun 2019

ljekio wrote:
03 Jun 2019
Polyphonic midi signal (note/gate) you can duplicate by MIDI-CV converter Player.
Monophonic control changes (CC) can convert into CV and otherwise RPG-8 and Thor.

The only problem i have in this - lack of ability to send "performance controls" (expression, sustain, breath, etc) to VST by CV directly.
CV routing is just not the same a full on MIDI. To make the MIDI work properly, they would need to have 2 things: virtual MIDI cables and virtual MIDI IN/OUT/THRU ports on the back of the VI's and the players. Consider the Dual Arp module, for example. Right now there are NO connections on the back of it. Imagine if there were 2 MIDI out ports on the back that you could route separately to two different (or multiple) other VI's in the rack. Put those inside a Combinator and you can have a multilayered arp'd patch with only your imagination as the limit.

Do the same with an external midi controller. Instead of the current MIDI assignment module, have a MIDI in from the controller that you can route however you wish via virtual MIDI cable.

CV control is nice, but can't duplicate the level of control MIDI can.

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ljekio
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Post 03 Jun 2019

DonnieAlan wrote:
03 Jun 2019
Consider the Dual Arp module, for example. Right now there are NO connections on the back of it. Imagine if there were 2 MIDI out ports on the back that you could route separately to two different (or multiple) other VI's in the rack.
Put MIDI-CV Converter after Dual Arp and receive some ports for any instruments.
Or give me please example where internal virt-midi can more than it.
CV control is nice, but can't duplicate the level of control MIDI can.
Sure. But available tools are now enough for most routing tasks.

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esselfortium
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Post 03 Jun 2019

I'd really like a MIDI routing system that's full-featured enough to handle MIDI VSTs that send notes and control data to multiple instruments at once, for Distributor-style chord splitting and whatnot.

DonnieAlan
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Joined: 25 Jan 2017

Post 03 Jun 2019

ljekio wrote:
03 Jun 2019

Sure. But available tools are now enough for most routing tasks.
No, they're not. What you are suggesting are workarounds. Not all instruments respond to CV either. If all rack RE's and VST's had MIDI in ports (easy enough to add to the VST host module), would be so much easier. It is not correct to say we have the tools to do this now, because we really don't.

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ljekio
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Post 03 Jun 2019

Therefore, I asked for examples that, in your opinion, cannot be solved with the available tools. I really find it interesting and I would like to try.

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boingy
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Post 04 Jun 2019

Plus, some of us just don't want to get involved in the world of CV routing. I realise that statement constitutes heresy around here and also that the CV thing is a big part of the Reason thing for some folks but I just have no interest in it, in the same way that I have no interest in modular synths. (oops- double heresy hehe). Reason could have better MIDI support without affecting the CV stuff.

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ljekio
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Post 04 Jun 2019

boingy wrote:
04 Jun 2019
Reason could have better MIDI support without affecting the CV stuff.
I always spoke for it. MIDI is one of the weak points in Reason. MIDI СС with low resolution, the inability to receive midi from VSTs, the inability to record multiple take when recording in loop mode, and much more.

But I want to draw a line between what is missing and what can be achieved under existing conditions.

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diminished
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Post 04 Jun 2019

ljekio wrote:
04 Jun 2019
boingy wrote:
04 Jun 2019
Reason could have better MIDI support without affecting the CV stuff.
I always spoke for it. MIDI is one of the weak points in Reason. MIDI СС with low resolution, the inability to receive midi from VSTs, the inability to record multiple take when recording in loop mode, and much more.

But I want to draw a line between what is missing and what can be achieved under existing conditions.
I've already said this somewhere else, but I'd really really like to route MIDI in parallel through different Player devices and MIDI VST into the same Rack extension.
Just like I can adress my external hardware through Reason itself with as many EMIs as I want with the only real limitation being the hardware's polyphony.

I can also plug in 2 or more keyboards and play a Rack Extension from both at the same time - why can't I do that in software with, for example, two RND Players?
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Chomsky
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Post 24 Aug 2020

MIDI routing between VST's and Reason Instruments/Players to me is the most essential thing. I have Chord Prism and Scaler 2 and I hate that I can't use them on Reason's internal Instruments.
The Scales & Chords player in Reason is OKAY but very limited when compared to Scaler 2 and Chord Prism.
The fact that it's almost 2021 and RS still hasn't properly implemented MIDI into Reason is just not okay. Using the rack inside other DAWS is cool but it's not the same for me.
It's long past overdue for MIDI to get it's proper implementation inside Reason.
And outside of updating the GUI and better MIDI editing tools, proper MIDI routing is the only thing that--for me--keeps Reason from being a true top dog in the DAWsphere.
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Billy
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Post 24 Aug 2020

Yeah better MIDI routings would be my number 1 request. I see there's a few using scaler etc, how's that working in reason? And what made you pick that over the mixed in keys captain bundle?
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Chomsky
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Post 24 Aug 2020

Billy wrote:
24 Aug 2020
Yeah better MIDI routings would be my number 1 request. I see there's a few using scaler etc, how's that working in reason? And what made you pick that over the mixed in keys captain bundle?
Funny enough, I own the Captain Plugins Bundle but I find myself using it most exclusively for the Captain Melody plugin.
The newest version of Scaler is by far the best or second best chord plugin out there. It added functions that take it to another level. I highlighted some in the pic provided. It can still use some additional functionality but they’ve listened to the community so far and have been pretty consistent about updating it. As for working with it inside Reason.... It'll only work with other VST's if you use something like BlueCat PatchWork plugin to route MIDI internally from Scaler to another VSTi you load inside PatchWork.
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Billy
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Post 24 Aug 2020

I've just watched the long walk through video for version 2 and its a lot better than the first version, it has quite a lot a new features and the modulation looks very intriguing.

Just out of curiosity have you tried MIDI Polysher as a vst inside captain now that it can host vsts, I haven't managed to get round to testing it yet, but it allows midi to be pushed to midi channels and I was wondering if that would work inside reason hosted in captain using the midi interface that reason uses..
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Chomsky
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Post 24 Aug 2020

Billy wrote:
24 Aug 2020
I've just watched the long walk through video for version 2 and its a lot better than the first version, it has quite a lot a new features and the modulation looks very intriguing.

Just out of curiosity have you tried MIDI Polysher as a vst inside captain now that it can host vsts, I haven't managed to get round to testing it yet, but it allows midi to be pushed to midi channels and I was wondering if that would work inside reason hosted in captain using the midi interface that reason uses..
This is the first time I've heard of MIDI Polysher. I googled it but I'm not sure how that would work inside Reason though since -- if I'm not mistaken -- you'd still be limited to the MIDI only going to other VST's and not to, say, a rack instrument or player for example. I could be wrong about that as I have never tested something like that out but with the way MIDI works inside Reason, I'm not sure it would work.
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Billy
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Post 24 Aug 2020

It would be placed inside captain, then sent to a midi port, which reason has at the top of the hardware interface then sent to a selected RE. I could be wrong and haven't had chance to try my self. But I glad I'm not the only person that hasn't seen it.

https://www.eareckon.com/en/products/freebies.html
https://www.eareckon.com/free/MIDIPolysher_1_2_0.zip
https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/909
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Re8et
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Post 19 Sep 2020

DonnieAlan wrote:
03 Jun 2019
ljekio wrote:
03 Jun 2019
Polyphonic midi signal (note/gate) you can duplicate by MIDI-CV converter Player.
Monophonic control changes (CC) can convert into CV and otherwise RPG-8 and Thor.

The only problem i have in this - lack of ability to send "performance controls" (expression, sustain, breath, etc) to VST by CV directly.
CV routing is just not the same a full on MIDI. To make the MIDI work properly, they would need to have 2 things: virtual MIDI cables and virtual MIDI IN/OUT/THRU ports on the back of the VI's and the players. Consider the Dual Arp module, for example. Right now there are NO connections on the back of it. Imagine if there were 2 MIDI out ports on the back that you could route separately to two different (or multiple) other VI's in the rack. Put those inside a Combinator and you can have a multilayered arp'd patch with only your imagination as the limit.

Do the same with an external midi controller. Instead of the current MIDI assignment module, have a MIDI in from the controller that you can route however you wish via virtual MIDI cable.

CV control is nice, but can't duplicate the level of control MIDI can.
You can send and receive midi from the top midi section, if that doesn't work, try midi yoke.
Midi yoke and midiloop has been the smartest solution thus far for these purposes.
There has also been more detailed posts at current Reason internal/external midi limitations for communication protocol.
I can't go much into details as I have long since recurred to workarounds and since forgotten what most of it was about.
Not to disagree with you that it would be cool to have it built in, but I see it as a complicated box within a box project very hardly it will be implemented in the short terms.

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