An improved version of Scales & Chords

Have any feature requests? No promise they'll get to the Props but you can still discuss them here.
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diminished
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Post 28 Dec 2018

What do you think of an update to S&C?
The more I think about it, the more I'm stunned by the many missed opportunities of this player, probably for the sake of usabilty.

Anyway, here are several things I'm dearly missing:

1. There is no way to borrow chords from outside of the key.
While there's the Alter button, it's unpredictable and when it's not, it changes the current chord from major to minor and vice versa. Come on. Why is this not at least a switch like the rest of the interface? Why do you have to _hold it down_?

2. Unlike in A-List Guitarist, you can't deliberately play sus/dim/whatever chords.
So the technology is there, it's just not implemented.

3. Except for drawing (multiple) automation lanes or the use of a clumsy mouse, there is no way to leave auto mode or even go from Maj to Maj7 for example.

4. You can't pick your own voicings.
Want to be limited to 6 notes like on old synthesizers? No can do. Want the MIDI notes to behave as if they were played on a guitar in a certain tuning (see: A-List!!)? Nope. Want to play two notes on the left hand and three/four an ocatave or two above? You can't.

5. It would be great to assign certain keys and scales to different parts of your song.
Kinda like a global S&C assigned to all, or selected instruments. Which helps you writing those transitions from verse to chorus for example. You're automatically in the key you aimed to be in at that moment in time.

Which leads me to...

6. Rework Blocks FFS!!! :D


Oh wow, this turned out to be a little ranty. Sorry for that, I just want to love what I already love even more. Happy to hear your opinions.
Reason 10 :reason: Teenage Engineering PO-33 :reason: M-Audio Venom

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Loque
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Post 28 Dec 2018

diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
1. There is no way to borrow chords from outside of the key.
While there's the Alter button, it's unpredictable and when it's not, it changes the current chord from major to minor and vice versa. Come on. Why is this not at least a switch like the rest of the interface? Why do you have to _hold it down_?
Is the Alternate-Button automatable/remotable? Than just press a key on the remote device or use a switch from the Combinator? Never tried :?

diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
2. Unlike in A-List Guitarist, you can't deliberately play sus/dim/whatever chords.
So the technology is there, it's just not implemented.
Yea, would be nice, but look at answer 1.

diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
3. Except for drawing (multiple) automation lanes or the use of a clumsy mouse, there is no way to leave auto mode or even go from Maj to Maj7 for example.
Hum...yea...you would need to switch a complete S&C. I would prefere to have more own scales or be able to load scale-files which i could change via remote control.

diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
4. You can't pick your own voicings.
Want to be limited to 6 notes like on old synthesizers? No can do. Want the MIDI notes to behave as if they were played on a guitar in a certain tuning (see: A-List!!)? Nope. Want to play two notes on the left hand and three/four an ocatave or two above? You can't.
You can easily split the whole keyboard within a Combinator and you can have different chords, so no problem. I have no idea, how this could be solved differently.

diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
5. It would be great to assign certain keys and scales to different parts of your song.
Kinda like a global S&C assigned to all, or selected instruments. Which helps you writing those transitions from verse to chorus for example. You're automatically in the key you aimed to be in at that moment in time.
I read this request in other threads. I am not that much into that key-scale-follow thing, but i can understand the requirement of a song-key-feature. No solution except for manual changing or heavy cabling AFAIK.

diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
6. Rework Blocks FFS!!! :D
I still did not understood Blocks after years. I guess i am too dumb for this, so i dont care. But if you have some good ideas how it can be reworked, feel free to send PH an email.

diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
Oh wow, this turned out to be a little ranty. Sorry for that, I just want to love what I already love even more. Happy to hear your opinions.
Yea...
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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diminished
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Post 28 Dec 2018

Loque wrote:
28 Dec 2018
diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
1. There is no way to borrow chords from outside of the key.
While there's the Alter button, it's unpredictable and when it's not, it changes the current chord from major to minor and vice versa. Come on. Why is this not at least a switch like the rest of the interface? Why do you have to _hold it down_?
Is the Alternate-Button automatable/remotable? Than just press a key on the remote device or use a switch from the Combinator? Never tried :?
It's remotable. That holding-down-question was just a part of my train of thoughts, because why isn't it a switch but a button? Anyway.
The thing is, you can only switch to a parallel chord and not, while playing a GMaj chord for example, go to a F#min, although that's a nice transition. My point is, S&C helps with certain things, but it also limits you while in my opinion it doesn't have to.
Loque wrote:
28 Dec 2018
diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
2. Unlike in A-List Guitarist, you can't deliberately play sus/dim/whatever chords.
So the technology is there, it's just not implemented.
Yea, would be nice, but look at answer 1.
You can't really force sustained and diminshed chords in S&C, like at all. Unless a certain sus/dim chord is part of a scale.
Loque wrote:
28 Dec 2018
diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
3. Except for drawing (multiple) automation lanes or the use of a clumsy mouse, there is no way to leave auto mode or even go from Maj to Maj7 for example.
Hum...yea...you would need to switch a complete S&C. I would prefere to have more own scales or be able to load scale-files which i could change via remote control.
That'd be awesome.
Loque wrote:
28 Dec 2018
diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
4. You can't pick your own voicings.
Want to be limited to 6 notes like on old synthesizers? No can do. Want the MIDI notes to behave as if they were played on a guitar in a certain tuning (see: A-List!!)? Nope. Want to play two notes on the left hand and three/four an ocatave or two above? You can't.
You can easily split the whole keyboard within a Combinator and you can have different chords, so no problem. I have no idea, how this could be solved differently.
I attached a picture to show what I mean. I believe you can't do such things with S&C in combination with a combinator.
Image
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Loque
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Post 28 Dec 2018

Looks like you want to split the keyboard. You need two S&C with two instruments in one Combinator. Than split the keyboard within the Combinator.
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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diminished
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Post 28 Dec 2018

Loque wrote:
28 Dec 2018
Looks like you want to split the keyboard. You need two S&C with two instruments in one Combinator. Than split the keyboard within the Combinator.
Since you input only one midi note, only one instrument will be played after the split. Because that input note is either in on one section of the keyboard or the other. Unless you overlap of course, but which defeats the purpose.

No, what I want is the ability for S&C, for example, to always play the two lowest notes of a chord an ocatve below. Then maybe inverting the upper half. And putting the highest note in the middle. Features like that! More complex voicing options.
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Loque
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Post 29 Dec 2018

Ok, now i got it. You can try this with CVPT from Lectrc Panda 🐼. As long as you play one Chord it should work. If you combine it with PolyCV and the instrument supports it, you don't need a instrument for each note.
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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selig
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Post 29 Dec 2018

diminished wrote:
28 Dec 2018
Loque wrote:
28 Dec 2018
Looks like you want to split the keyboard. You need two S&C with two instruments in one Combinator. Than split the keyboard within the Combinator.
Since you input only one midi note, only one instrument will be played after the split. Because that input note is either in on one section of the keyboard or the other. Unless you overlap of course, but which defeats the purpose.

No, what I want is the ability for S&C, for example, to always play the two lowest notes of a chord an ocatve below. Then maybe inverting the upper half. And putting the highest note in the middle. Features like that! More complex voicing options.
Sounds like for someone with your level of theory knowledge maybe it would make more sense to have a chord player that you can program yourself, than to add such complexity to this player?
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Creativemind
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Post 29 Dec 2018

You missed off 2 things (unless I read wrong) that would be amazing for Scales and Chords Player.

1) The ability to pick a chord type, sus4, maj, maj7, minor etc and just play it up and down the keyboard.
2) Strum feature.
:reason:

Reason 10.2

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Loque
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Post 29 Dec 2018

Creativemind wrote:
29 Dec 2018
You missed off 2 things (unless I read wrong) that would be amazing for Scales and Chords Player.

1) The ability to pick a chord type, sus4, maj, maj7, minor etc and just play it up and down the keyboard.
2) Strum feature.
Agree to strum feature. That was the first thing i thought, "why the f**** they did not added that?". But since we have extra strum Players, it is ok and makes more sense to the modular approach of Reason.
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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Creativemind
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Post 29 Dec 2018

Loque wrote:
29 Dec 2018
Creativemind wrote:
29 Dec 2018
You missed off 2 things (unless I read wrong) that would be amazing for Scales and Chords Player.

1) The ability to pick a chord type, sus4, maj, maj7, minor etc and just play it up and down the keyboard.
2) Strum feature.
Agree to strum feature. That was the first thing i thought, "why the f**** they did not added that?". But since we have extra strum Players, it is ok and makes more sense to the modular approach of Reason.
Yeah but still loads handier to have it built in.

I still don't get why you can't pick a chord type though. It would be great for say Deep House where it consists of a lot of maj7ths, m9ths etc and you could pick one and play it up and down the keyboard.
:reason:

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Creativemind
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Post 29 Dec 2018

I also wish someone would make a Player device which defaults to 4 pads but another 8 can be added (4 and another 4) where you can assign a chord type to a pad, a chord note and octave to each pad and then you could play the pads to play the chords. Also, you could assign the pads to notes on your midi controller and play on the fly in any order.
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selig
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Post 29 Dec 2018

Creativemind wrote:
29 Dec 2018
You missed off 2 things (unless I read wrong) that would be amazing for Scales and Chords Player.

1) The ability to pick a chord type, sus4, maj, maj7, minor etc and just play it up and down the keyboard.
2) Strum feature.
I see this as a separate device, with no need for the "Scales" and note filters parts. Could be there's a need for both a better Scales device AND a better Chord device to compliment the more generic Scales AND Chords device.
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diminished
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Post 29 Dec 2018

selig wrote:
29 Dec 2018
Sounds like for someone with your level of theory knowledge maybe it would make more sense to have a chord player that you can program yourself, than to add such complexity to this player?
No doubt, and there are a few options available that I have my eyes on. ISLAinstruments Kordbot in the hardware realm for example, or CaptainChords as a VST solution. Although tools like the latter often have trouble in Reason because there is no VST MIDI out support.

I just wish there was more functionality from a player device like S&C, because I love how self-contained, well designed and fast everything in Reason is. Hence the feature request :)
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diminished
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Post 29 Dec 2018

Creativemind wrote:
29 Dec 2018
You missed off 2 things (unless I read wrong) that would be amazing for Scales and Chords Player.

1) The ability to pick a chord type, sus4, maj, maj7, minor etc and just play it up and down the keyboard.
Yeah exactly this is my bullet point #2. While you can "dial in" something like maj7add9/11, this is impossible for sus4, sus6 or anything diminshed.
Creativemind wrote:
29 Dec 2018
2) Strum feature.
Spot on, Note Echo never changes direction or allows pauses that are not affected by pitch.
Example: imagine strumming the bottom 4 strings of a guitar and then picking the remaining top two strings at the same time - that should all go into a Note Echo feature request :D

I love your idea for a Kong type player device that is programmable with chords by the way.
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diminished
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Post 29 Dec 2018

Creativemind wrote:
29 Dec 2018
I still don't get why you can't pick a chord type though. It would be great for say Deep House where it consists of a lot of maj7ths, m9ths etc and you could pick one and play it up and down the keyboard.
Note Echo can do exactly that!
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xylyx
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Post 29 Dec 2018

Doesn't AutoTheory cover a fair bit of the requests in this thread? I know it's not a Player device but with CVPT it shouldn't matter too much...

scratchnsnifff
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Post 29 Dec 2018

Some ideas for scales and chords
A button or slider for sus2 and 4 chords!

Maybe add more chord progressions styles?
I’d like to see some more jazzy or blues driven scales. The custom chord maker is very minimal. It would be nice if you could set a fully custom scale and set fully custom chords. As it is currently, you can set a scale, but the chords are chosen in a fixed context

Iv learned a lot from this player, but I’d like to see all of the types of static cling chords merged into the propellerhead player :D
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diminished
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Post 29 Dec 2018

xylyx wrote:
29 Dec 2018
Doesn't AutoTheory cover a fair bit of the requests in this thread? I know it's not a Player device but with CVPT it shouldn't matter too much...
I was like, "what the heck is AutoTheory", and shame on me, I already got it with the Backline Rig 3 :? How could I have missed it..
Thank you soooo much, it indeed does a lot of what I'm looking for! Fine-tuning chords, sus etc with a key press, separate root notes, strumming, humanise, AND a melody/bassline section for split keyboard layout, how cool is that?

Yes, not a player device but like you said, with CVPT it kinda turns into one..
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Creativemind
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Post 30 Dec 2018

diminished wrote:
29 Dec 2018
I love your idea for a Kong type player device that is programmable with chords by the way.
Yeah I had the idea after I had a song in my head (singing it etc) then I picked up my guitar and worked out the chords. The chords that fitted the melody I was singing were Gm, F, Dm, F for the main part. I didn't like the way it sounded on guitar though with what I was singing. I wanted piano. I just wanted to be able to play those chords on 3 keys of my midi controller as I can't play the piano.

The only other way is to work out the first chord, record that. Record over it and play the 2nd chord after it in the relevant place etc but it didn't sound natural enough.
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Timmy Crowne
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Post 30 Dec 2018

Hey, not sure if this is what you're looking for but I built this combinator when I ran into the same problems a while back. It allows finer control of the S&C device: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7508073

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diminished
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Post 30 Dec 2018

Timmy Crowne wrote:
30 Dec 2018
Hey, not sure if this is what you're looking for but I built this combinator when I ran into the same problems a while back. It allows finer control of the S&C device: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7508073
Thanks so much Timmy! That looks super interesting, I'll dive into it ASAP. I certainly haven't used CV stuff enough to fully understand what's going on in your combinator by just looking at it.
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