Select None (ctrl-shift-A)

[rgdaniel]

If you can Select All, you should always be able to Select None, rather than have to find some harmless bit of screen real estate to click in to un-select everything. Pretty standard, I think. I was surprised the other day when ctrl-shift-A didn't work. Even dug through current and previous manuals to see if was missing something. I miss lots of things, but apparently (correct me if I'm wrong) there's no Select None. It's the little things...

[selig]

If you can Select All, you should always be able to Select None, rather than have to find some harmless bit of screen real estate to click in to un-select everything. Pretty standard, I think. I was surprised the other day when ctrl-shift-A didn't work. Even dug through current and previous manuals to see if was missing something. I miss lots of things, but apparently (correct me if I'm wrong) there's no Select None. It's the little things...

What cases are thee when you need to select none?


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[C//AZM]

A second ctrl A should work but it doesn't. Doing it once selects everything. Doing it again should deselect everything.

[rgdaniel]

What cases are thee when you need to select none?

Anytime I've selected all, done what I wanted with them, and now I don't need them selected any more. Not meaning to be flippant, but that's basically it. Anytime I have to click on a blank area to deselect, a keyboard shortcut could be handy. I'm trying to be less mouse-dependent in general, learn my shortcuts. Keep carpal tunnel at bay. It's a fairly standard interface design element. By no means a show stopper, but it just happened that I reached for ctrl-shift-A the other day and was surprised it didn't work, and I was reminded of this thread.

[selig]

What cases are thee when you need to select none?

Anytime I've selected all, done what I wanted with them, and now I don't need them selected any more. Not meaning to be flippant, but that's basically it. Anytime I have to click on a blank area to deselect, a keyboard shortcut could be handy. I'm trying to be less mouse-dependent in general, learn my shortcuts. Keep carpal tunnel at bay. It's a fairly standard interface design element. By no means a show stopper, but it just happened that I reached for ctrl-shift-A the other day and was surprised it didn't work, and I was reminded of this thread.

Apologies for asking again, but as a developer I try to find the use case for a suggestion.

My question is about what you want to do AFTER you de-select all. What is it you need to do that you can only do when nothing is selected?



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[rgdaniel]

Apologies for asking again, but as a developer I try to find the use case for a suggestion.

My question is about what you want to do AFTER you de-select all. What is it you need to do that you can only do when nothing is selected?

Anything I want to do, that I do not want to do to all the things selected. For example, I think what I was doing the other day is something like: (1) Select all notes in a clip while in edit mode (2) Nudge all the notes (3) Select none (4) Nudge one individual note.

Obviously it's easy to just click near the note to select none, then go ahead and nudge it. And I've gone since Reason 2.5 without ever even noticing that there was no Select None shortcut, so clearly it's not a show stopper. I just happened to finally notice the other day that it was missing, and was a bit surprised.

[joeyluck]

On macOS, outside of Reason, this is option-command-A

So I agree the behavior that folks are used to in an OS should be similar, if not the same, in an application.

Aside from selecting an empty space somewhere, perhaps there is a way that we are overlooking? I'm really not sure.

[rgdaniel]

On macOS, outside of Reason, this is option-command-A

Yes, sorry, I should have been more inclusive...

[joeyluck]

On macOS, outside of Reason, this is option-command-A

Yes, sorry, I should have been more inclusive...

Oh no prob! I was only mentioning it as to say, "Yes, this is a common command function"

[selig]

Apologies for asking again, but as a developer I try to find the use case for a suggestion.

My question is about what you want to do AFTER you de-select all. What is it you need to do that you can only do when nothing is selected?

Anything I want to do, that I do not want to do to all the things selected. For example, I think what I was doing the other day is something like: (1) Select all notes in a clip while in edit mode (2) Nudge all the notes (3) Select none (4) Nudge one individual note.

Obviously it's easy to just click near the note to select none, then go ahead and nudge it. And I've gone since Reason 2.5 without ever even noticing that there was no Select None shortcut, so clearly it's not a show stopper. I just happened to finally notice the other day that it was missing, and was a bit surprised.

Must be some terminology barrier here - you talk about selecting ONE note by selecting none? Or did you leave out a step between 3 and 4? Wouldn’t you have to select a note before you can nudge it?

Sorry if I’m sounding pedantic here, I’ve never needed to select none, so very curious what I might be missing (and again, from a developer point of view wondering what the use case is for this feature).


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[joeyluck]

Anything I want to do, that I do not want to do to all the things selected. For example, I think what I was doing the other day is something like: (1) Select all notes in a clip while in edit mode (2) Nudge all the notes (3) Select none (4) Nudge one individual note.

Obviously it's easy to just click near the note to select none, then go ahead and nudge it. And I've gone since Reason 2.5 without ever even noticing that there was no Select None shortcut, so clearly it's not a show stopper. I just happened to finally notice the other day that it was missing, and was a bit surprised.

Must be some terminology barrier here - you talk about selecting ONE note by selecting none? Or did you leave out a step between 3 and 4? Wouldn’t you have to select a note before you can nudge it?

Sorry if I’m sounding pedantic here, I’ve never needed to select none, so very curious what I might be missing (and again, from a developer point of view wondering what the use case is for this feature).


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Well it's a basic function across operating systems. This command works around the OS and in other applications. Reason just needs to add it as a menu item...

It's the same as suggesting to someone they can remove browse focus to hit the 'x' in the Browser or pressing the escape key (vs. clicking on empty space to remove browse focus). Currently, there is no way to "select none" or "deselect all" within Reason via a keystroke.

So right now, the answer has to be "just click somewhere else or click on something else" which isn't cohesive with the answers that can be given for say, removing browse focus.

[selig]

Well it's a basic function across operating systems. This command works around the OS and in other applications. Reason just needs to add it as a menu item...

It's the same as suggesting to someone they can remove browse focus to hit the 'x' in the Browser or pressing the escape key (vs. clicking on empty space to remove browse focus). Currently, there is no way to "select none" or "deselect all" within Reason via a keystroke.

So right now, the answer has to be "just click somewhere else or click on something else" which isn't cohesive with the answers that can be given for say, removing browse focus.

Undo is also a basic function, but I can tell you why I need it and how I use it. What I haven’t heard yet is the why and how for “select none”.

FWIW…I understand what “select none” means, not sure how I’m not communicating that clearly here.




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[rgdaniel]

Anything I want to do, that I do not want to do to all the things selected. For example, I think what I was doing the other day is something like: (1) Select all notes in a clip while in edit mode (2) Nudge all the notes (3) Select none (4) Nudge one individual note.

Must be some terminology barrier here - you talk about selecting ONE note by selecting none? Or did you leave out a step between 3 and 4? Wouldn’t you have to select a note before you can nudge it?

Sorry if I’m sounding pedantic here, I’ve never needed to select none, so very curious what I might be missing (and again, from a developer point of view wondering what the use case is for this feature).

Change (4) to read "Nudge one note by clicking on it and moving it" ... If you click on one note to move it while all notes are still selected, you'll move all of them, which is not what I wanted to do. Surely you've clicked away from a selected item to unselect it at some point in your life. That's when a keyboard shortcut as an alternative, especially a bog standard one like this, could be handy. People (not ALL people clearly ) expect it to be there. It's like asking "why do I need ctrl-A when I can just lasso or shift click the notes I want?" Always good to have multiple ways of doing things, especially when it involves established standard keyboard shortcuts.

[Creativemind]

I know it doesn't take away from the fact that this seems to be a basic feature that is missing but if you have multiple notes in the midi editor and select all then in your scenario you want to then adjust one single note, clicking said note automatically deselects all notes and selects the note you want to adjust anyway?

[rgdaniel]

I know it doesn't take away from the fact that this seems to be a basic feature that is missing but if you have multiple notes in the midi editor and select all then in your scenario you want to then adjust one single note, clicking said note automatically deselects all notes and selects the note you want to adjust anyway?

Nope, it adjusts them all. That's how you do it if you WANT to adjust them all. If you only want to adjust one note, you have to de-select all of them, then click and adjust the one you want. Try it!

[Namyo85]

I've seen select all written as 'ctrl+shift+A' a few times in various places, it is actually only 'ctrl+A'. That aside, you could always hit an arrow key after editing, this unselects all the notes, 'ctrl+z' will undo select all if you changed your mind about selecting them all in the first place. All that said, I personally don't think there's a need for a unselect all shortcut.

[Fotu]

FWIW the odd behavior of clearing multi-selects was one of the early nuisance challenges I found with Reason UI on Windows.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7502628
I've gotten used to it, but I still think it's 'wrong' compared to pretty much any other Windows multi-select behavior.

[Creativemind]

I know it doesn't take away from the fact that this seems to be a basic feature that is missing but if you have multiple notes in the midi editor and select all then in your scenario you want to then adjust one single note, clicking said note automatically deselects all notes and selects the note you want to adjust anyway?

Nope, it adjusts them all. That's how you do it if you WANT to adjust them all. If you only want to adjust one note, you have to de-select all of them, then click and adjust the one you want. Try it!

No, after ALL notes are selected, you click the note you want to adjust next. All notes de-selected and the new note is selected. Tried it yesterday to check after I read it.

[Creativemind]

I've seen select all written as 'ctrl+shift+A' a few times in various places, it is actually only 'ctrl+A'. That aside, you could always hit an arrow key after editing, this unselects all the notes, 'ctrl+z' will undo select all if you changed your mind about selecting them all in the first place. All that said, I personally don't think there's a need for a unselect all shortcut.

Undo won't work if you adjusted ALL the notes selected by adjusting 1 of them as the ctrl + A will now not be the last undo, it will be the 2nd last undo

[QVprod]

I know it doesn't take away from the fact that this seems to be a basic feature that is missing but if you have multiple notes in the midi editor and select all then in your scenario you want to then adjust one single note, clicking said note automatically deselects all notes and selects the note you want to adjust anyway?

Nope, it adjusts them all. That's how you do it if you WANT to adjust them all. If you only want to adjust one note, you have to de-select all of them, then click and adjust the one you want. Try it!

Seriously, clicking one note will deselect all other notes. Clicking the name of one channel in the mixer will deselect all other mixer channels. Clicking one device will deselect all other devices. Essentially you don't really need a keyboard shortcut to accomplish what you want, which is what Selig and Creativemind were getting at. Sure it could be added, but you already have a solution (that isn't a workaround) that you can use right now.

I think where the confusion is, is that you're clicking and dragging with all notes selected which will move all selected notes. You have to instead click the single note once and then that one note will be selected. Then you can click and drag just that one note.

[rgdaniel]

Nope, it adjusts them all. That's how you do it if you WANT to adjust them all. If you only want to adjust one note, you have to de-select all of them, then click and adjust the one you want. Try it!

Seriously, clicking one note will deselect all other notes. Clicking the name of one channel in the mixer will deselect all other mixer channels. Clicking one device will deselect all other devices. Essentially you don't really need a keyboard shortcut to accomplish what you want, which is what Selig and Creativemind were getting at. Sure it could be added, but you already have a solution (that isn't a workaround) that you can use right now.

I think where the confusion is, is that you're clicking and dragging with all notes selected which will move all selected notes. You have to instead click the single note once and then that one note will be selected. Then you can click and drag just that one note.

Yes, you can click the note and let go, and only it will be selected, the rest will be de-selected. Then you have to click it again to move it. If you just click and drag with everything still selected, you'll drag everything. All as expected. The only thing missing is a keyboard shortcut for de-selecting everything, like every other program in the world (hyperbolically speaking).

The question should not be "why do you need that shortcut", the question should be "why wouldn't they provide that shortcut"? Maybe there's some deeply technical reason why not, but it seems unlikely. If you can select none with a click in a blank area, surely you can select none with a keyboard shortcut. But whatever, I only just barely cared enough about this issue to post, by now I care just a bit less. Life's too short to obsess on the small stuff. My wife sometimes gets up on her usability high horse about some website or program that doesn't behave properly, and I say "you just have to do it this way" and she says "well THAT'S not obvious, they should fix that" and I'm like "well now you know how to do it, it's not a problem any more". So I'm generally about just putting up with it and getting stuff done rather than getting my knickers in a twist. So to speak. But I thought this "select none" thing was interesting enough in its absence to make a note of here.

[joeyluck]

Yes, you can click the note and let go, and only it will be selected, the rest will be de-selected. Then you have to click it again to move it. If you just click and drag with everything still selected, you'll drag everything. All as expected. The only thing missing is a keyboard shortcut for de-selecting everything, like every other program in the world (hyperbolically speaking).

The question should not be "why do you need that shortcut", the question should be "why wouldn't they provide that shortcut"? Maybe there's some deeply technical reason why not, but it seems unlikely. If you can select none with a click in a blank area, surely you can select none with a keyboard shortcut. But whatever, I only just barely cared enough about this issue to post, by now I care just a bit less. Life's too short to obsess on the small stuff. My wife sometimes gets up on her usability high horse about some website or program that doesn't behave properly, and I say "you just have to do it this way" and she says "well THAT'S not obvious, they should fix that" and I'm like "well now you know how to do it, it's not a problem any more". So I'm generally about just putting up with it and getting stuff done rather than getting my knickers in a twist. So to speak. But I thought this "select none" thing was interesting enough in its absence to make a note of here.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to want this feature. Especially with it being a command/behavior that is found in most everything else. It's second nature for many. I've wondered about it for some time.

And again, a similar example is you can remove browse focus for a device by clicking an empty space in the rack or by clicking on another device... yet there are two other ways of removing browse focus: pressing the escape key or clicking on the 'x' in the Browser. So if you prefer your workflow to be clicking empty space you can have at it, or if you prefer to hit the escape key, you can do that instead.

'Select None' is common. I don't think it would be hard to implement. And it would be useful with the way things are going with the multi lane edit, and multi fader movement behaving similar to the ways thing perform across an OS. I keep finding, when trying to select and deselect note lanes or faders, that there are still note lanes or faders selected I didn't intend to have selected. Having a quick command like 'select none' would set my mind at ease and let me know it's a fresh start.

Sometimes some folks just want to not have anything selected. Maybe it's just a little obsession; some reassurance that you won't accident screw something up and move something unintentionally. Maybe it's because you just don't want to see something highlighted during playback...maybe the highlight is distracting...maybe those arrows on the audio clip are obscuring something...and just about any reason to have a well known, established command perform the same in the software as it does in other places.

[QVprod]

Yes, you can click the note and let go, and only it will be selected, the rest will be de-selected. Then you have to click it again to move it. If you just click and drag with everything still selected, you'll drag everything. All as expected. The only thing missing is a keyboard shortcut for de-selecting everything, like every other program in the world (hyperbolically speaking).

The question should not be "why do you need that shortcut", the question should be "why wouldn't they provide that shortcut"? Maybe there's some deeply technical reason why not, but it seems unlikely. If you can select none with a click in a blank area, surely you can select none with a keyboard shortcut. But whatever, I only just barely cared enough about this issue to post, by now I care just a bit less. Life's too short to obsess on the small stuff. My wife sometimes gets up on her usability high horse about some website or program that doesn't behave properly, and I say "you just have to do it this way" and she says "well THAT'S not obvious, they should fix that" and I'm like "well now you know how to do it, it's not a problem any more". So I'm generally about just putting up with it and getting stuff done rather than getting my knickers in a twist. So to speak. But I thought this "select none" thing was interesting enough in its absence to make a note of here.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to want this feature. Especially with it being a command/behavior that is found in most everything else. It's second nature for many. I've wondered about it for some time.

And again, a similar example is you can remove browse focus for a device by clicking an empty space in the rack or by clicking on another device... yet there are two other ways of removing browse focus: pressing the escape key or clicking on the 'x' in the Browser. So if you prefer your workflow to be clicking empty space you can have at it, or if you prefer to hit the escape key, you can do that instead.

'Select None' is common.

I suppose how common that shortcut is is relative. I never knew of it and just tried it in google and in the mac notes app and it doesn't work. Maybe it works in Microsoft Word? That said, I don't believe anyone is arguing that it shouldn't be there. OP explained the use for it to which there is a pretty sensible solution that is effective now and doesn't actually require you to click blank space. Being that it is impossible to know any individual's Reason knowledge, questions were asked and solutions were provided to deal with the "problem"

[joeyluck]

I think it is perfectly reasonable to want this feature. Especially with it being a command/behavior that is found in most everything else. It's second nature for many. I've wondered about it for some time.

And again, a similar example is you can remove browse focus for a device by clicking an empty space in the rack or by clicking on another device... yet there are two other ways of removing browse focus: pressing the escape key or clicking on the 'x' in the Browser. So if you prefer your workflow to be clicking empty space you can have at it, or if you prefer to hit the escape key, you can do that instead.

'Select None' is common.

I suppose how common that shortcut is is relative. I never knew of it and just tried it in google and in the mac notes app and it doesn't work. Maybe it works in Microsoft Word? That said, I don't believe anyone is arguing that it shouldn't be there. OP explained the use for it to which there is a pretty sensible solution that is effective now and doesn't actually require you to click blank space. Being that it is impossible to know any individual's Reason knowledge, questions were asked and solutions were provided to deal with the "problem"

Actually yes, a user did say they didn't think there was a need for the shortcut I haven't seen an answer aside from clicking off of something. I've seen mention of clicking another note or another something, or clicking an arrow—which moves to another single note; it does not select none. But the only way I am aware of to deselect/'select none' is to click empty space...

If you're on macOS, you can try it out in folders via Finder... Select a few files or select all...and then use command-option-A to select none. If you are using Google Docs, they seem to stick to the convention of command-shift-A. Gimp image editor and iMovie do the same. iZotope's RX uses command-D for what they call "deselect," which I am familiar with being duplicate in Reason, so I changed it via System Preferences > Keyboard > Shortcuts to be command-option-A in iZotope RX.

I guess my point is that it was pretty clear to me that the OP knows how to deselect something by clicking other space and made it clear about just wanting the shortcut, just like anything else that has a shortcut that you could argue doesn't need it...because there is another way to do it...

[JiggeryPokery]

If you can Select All, you should always be able to Select None, rather than have to find some harmless bit of screen real estate to click in to un-select everything. Pretty standard, I think. I was surprised the other day when ctrl-shift-A didn't work. Even dug through current and previous manuals to see if was missing something. I miss lots of things, but apparently (correct me if I'm wrong) there's no Select None. It's the little things...

What cases are thee when you need to select none?

I can't say I've personally really noticed a lack of it much while editing notes, though I totally understand it if the OP needs it. I suppose I have just naturally just clicked into open space to deselect all without really thinking about it. In some ways perhaps thinking of it as "Select None", the OPs words, not yours, is a slightly misleading description as indeed normally you'd want at least one thing selected.

So with that in mind, the one area that I have found occurs enough to be regularly frustrating is selecting all sequencer tracks, such as for copy/pasting between songs. It's very hard to deselect them all, because the standard deselection options any normal PC users would attempt first—because that that's how every other app they've used for thirty years works!—nowhere was marked in the GUI to click out of it to reselect just one track.

You can click a track to rearm it for recording etc, but all the tracks are still "selected" in terms of dragging and, here's the one that's caught me out more than once, Ctrl-D duplication of that drum track I thought I'd selected, where suddenly your computer has frozen for five minutes while it attempts to duplicate 30 tracks

Click a sequencer clip? The clip will open as normal, but nope, all tracks themselves are still selected.

Click anywhere in the track info on the left. Nope.

You'll see there's an extra dark bit on the far left that indicates a track is selected? Does clicking even that reselect just that track? Nope.

Double-click the track? Nope. Still all are selected.

Create a new note lane? Nope. You've got a new note lane in the currently armed track, but all tracks themselves are still selected.

Try it now: Open a song with a load of tracks, Ctrl-A, and then try and deselect the bastards. Then just for lols click one track and then Ctrl-D it.

The only way to deselect all—afaik—is to create a new actual track (r-click, create audio track etc). So the quickest way is probably Ctrl-T (which frankly I had to look up just now, as I tend to create devices from right-click or browser), and "Create Audio Track" seems a pretty obscure choice as the inverse of "Select All", and with the added benefit of always results in something extra you didn't want will have to need to delete.

Anywhere you have Select All, you need a Deselect All: that wasn't brain surgery, that's basic GUI usability. The lack of it is the selection equilavent to including the Copy but not Paste. Windows apps at least do tend be a very erratic here in choice of shortcut: Photoshop I know uses Ctrl-D, while MS Excel uses ESC and MS Word is... fairly obtuse (arrow keys, but normally most I guess would just mouseclick whitespace).