[Finished] Curved Automation (Petition)

[selig]

Obviously a feature which is not important to most users.

I wouldn't think so. Maybe with some demonstration what it's good for, people would understand. One obvious would be song fade outs. But also it could be great for adding unique dynamics/filtering for each note when it comes to melodies. I'm not a fixed ADSR-type.

The simplest example I think of to demonstrate why curved lines are needed for automation is an LFO - every LFO in Reason has a triangle wave AND a sine wave. That’s because there IS a difference between straight lines and curved lines when you are controlling parameters automatically.


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[RobC]

I wouldn't think so. Maybe with some demonstration what it's good for, people would understand. One obvious would be song fade outs. But also it could be great for adding unique dynamics/filtering for each note when it comes to melodies. I'm not a fixed ADSR-type.

The usecases are endless for me. From creating automated ADSR, panning, filter sweeps or modulations in general. A lot of synths do not have enough modmatrix slots and modulation with envelope generators are somewhat limited at a specific point. That is where automation is required for modulation.

Beside the normal stuff of automating data. Changing from a linear to exp/sin/log thing would be nice. Way more control how a sound or a automation should be shaped.

Well, maybe not everyone needs this accuracy or is experimenting with automation in the sequencer to make the sounds as he wants it.

Very true, and I'm definitely for the mathematical shaping; and earlier there was another suggestion that it should also be possible to form the curve between two lines further. Kind of reminds me of vector drawing and vector line manipulation which has that kind of flexibility. I'd rather say, not everyone knows that they need it.

[Loque]

I edited this way years ago (!!!) in Ableton Live when i trialed it.



And this i just found from FL:


Cubase...

[RobC]

I wouldn't think so. Maybe with some demonstration what it's good for, people would understand. One obvious would be song fade outs. But also it could be great for adding unique dynamics/filtering for each note when it comes to melodies. I'm not a fixed ADSR-type.

The simplest example I think of to demonstrate why curved lines are needed for automation is an LFO - every LFO in Reason has a triangle wave AND a sine wave. That’s because there IS a difference between straight lines and curved lines when you are controlling parameters automatically.


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While that certainly is simple enough, and would be another good example; people also might need to be impressed further, so they see the many creative uses.

[RobC]

I edited this way years ago (!!!) in Ableton Live when i trialed it.

Yep, that's pretty much how flexible vectors work.

Maybe let's fly to Sweden, flailing those sign post things with text on them and yell, repeating things at the Propellerhead Software HQ? : ) First petition, then protest.

[selig]

The simplest example I think of to demonstrate why curved lines are needed for automation is an LFO - every LFO in Reason has a triangle wave AND a sine wave. That’s because there IS a difference between straight lines and curved lines when you are controlling parameters automatically.


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While that certainly is simple enough, and would be another good example; people also might need to be impressed further, so they see the many creative uses.

Well, once you need something, that's it - you need it. To those who cannot tell the difference between a filter sweep with a sine vs triangle, you'll never convince them. it IS possible to give too much information and overload folks when making a "sale" on a concept.

But if you want more, exhibit "B" would have to be the Props own "Synchronous", which includes curved and straight modulation shapes.

Exhibit "C" and "D" would be the envelopes in Europa and Grain.

If you have to explain how these features are useful, you're probably barking up the wrong tree, as these would be the folks who simply do not need advanced features for their work. Not EVERYONE needs these, the goal is to remind the folks that DO need them that they are useful. And from there, they will raise their voices so the Props see there is enough demand to justify the resources to adding this feature.

[RobC]

While that certainly is simple enough, and would be another good example; people also might need to be impressed further, so they see the many creative uses.

Well, once you need something, that's it - you need it. To those who cannot tell the difference between a filter sweep with a sine vs triangle, you'll never convince them. it IS possible to give too much information and overload folks when making a "sale" on a concept.

But if you want more, exhibit "B" would have to be the Props own "Synchronous", which includes curved and straight modulation shapes.

Exhibit "C" and "D" would be the envelopes in Europa and Grain.

If you have to explain how these features are useful, you're probably barking up the wrong tree, as these would be the folks who simply do not need advanced features for their work. Not EVERYONE needs these, the goal is to remind the folks that DO need them that they are useful. And from there, they will raise their voices so the Props see there is enough demand to justify the resources to adding this feature.

I'm not the best with convincing, but I guess I can start getting the word out there a bit, the rest is up to others. Honestly, seeing the new envelopes, I don't know what keeps them from updating sequencer automation.

[Pralijah]

Yes to curved automations in the sequencer would make lot of sense, using the sequencer more creatively like an instrument.

[Ahornberg]

This test contains a filter sweep, a volume fade and a pan automation,
each done with:

a) 2 line segments
b) 8 line segments

Can you tell the difference?

[Loque]

This test contains a filter sweep, a volume fade and a pan automation,
each done with:

a) 2 line segments
b) 8 line segments

Can you tell the difference?

I never really thought about the produced sound, rather than how many points I need to adjust if I want it different or a curve instead of something linear. And now try to edit a curve on a 64th note and try to adjust it to your taste. That's a PITA.

[Ahornberg]

adapt automation line__.gif (602.56 KiB) Viewed 2566 times

[Loque]

adapt automation line__.gif

Yes, nice workaround. And now change the curve 5 times until it fits. In the end changing a curve point takes 1 click, no time. Doing what you have shown takes 30s or more for each change.

[Ahornberg]

adapt automation line__.gif

Yes, nice workaround. And now change the curve 5 times until it fits. In the end changing a curve point takes 1 click, no time. Doing what you have shown takes 30s or more for each change.

Yes, curved lines would make things easier.

[Heigen5]

+1

If this won't be added into Reason 11, I'm gonna be a bit disappointed.

[selig]

And while we're on the subject, you can already draw automation on the grid, but you cannot QUANTIZE existing automation events to the grid.
Add to the growing feature suggestion list…

[scratchnsnifff]

Please check out bitwigs way of automation and take notes propellerhead:)

Similar to ableton with a touch of stuff from cubase

The ability to have different ways of scaling shapes weather automation or velocity! Is so awesome

I also like how bitwig shows a bipolar line and If you draw a triangle anything above the 0 line is shades (indicating a max/open value) it’s a great way to visualize how the knob moves and why it works that way

Please do make an automation update propellerhead

[RobC]

~ 18? That's it? ...and maybe 771 thread views...

So:

Dear Propellerhead Software!

So far we have 771 thread views and 18 votes!

...

Not at all shady. xD

[tiker01]

And while we're on the subject, you can already draw automation on the grid, but you cannot QUANTIZE existing automation events to the grid.
Add to the growing feature suggestion list…

Adding quantizeation to automation points would be good. I guess the issue might be what to do if there are a lot of points and they more than one would end up at the same place.

[Loque]

And while we're on the subject, you can already draw automation on the grid, but you cannot QUANTIZE existing automation events to the grid.
Add to the growing feature suggestion list…

Adding quantizeation to automation points would be good. I guess the issue might be what to do if there are a lot of points and they more than one would end up at the same place.

Yea...quantization to pitch bend...cool stuff...or a filter frequency to octaves or scales....hmmm....interesting...Maybe with a CV trickery it might already be possible....hmmm...

[selig]

Adding quantizeation to automation points would be good. I guess the issue might be what to do if there are a lot of points and they more than one would end up at the same place.

Yea...quantization to pitch bend...cool stuff...or a filter frequency to octaves or scales....hmmm....interesting...Maybe with a CV trickery it might already be possible....hmmm...

Talking quantizing time, not level, which would be difficult with a CV. Plus you need a way to convert automation to CV then back to automation - not impossible but time consuming.

Could be done in the sequencer with ease, as there is already a quantize command for events.

As for quantizing with many events, same thing happens with notes. Choose the quantize value that represent the density of the data. But sometimes you just want to quantize a few events so they follow the notes played, as one example.


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[RobC]

While additional ideas are great, I still think it's easier to ask one simple thing at a time (less work for them, more chance for it being added).

[selig]

While additional ideas are great, I still think it's easier to ask one simple thing at a time (less work for them, more chance for it being added).

Point take. OK then, I'll start: let's drill down on this one feature.

First question: should the curves be simple arcs/parabolas, or log/exp like Europa/Grain envelopes, or more complex curves via adding a mid point to determine the curve, or B-Spline curves, or some type of Bézier curves?

[RobC]

While additional ideas are great, I still think it's easier to ask one simple thing at a time (less work for them, more chance for it being added).

Point take. OK then, I'll start: let's drill down on this one feature.

First question: should the curves be simple arcs/parabolas, or log/exp like Europa/Grain envelopes, or more complex curves via adding a mid point to determine the curve, or B-Spline curves, or some type of Bézier curves?

At the moment, I'd already be super happy, if we'd get the new envelopes' style; but I'm not against more flexibility either! It's just that I see it more likely that they might add something that's already worked out. That said, I'm not the one to decide, obviously. : )

[PhillipOrdonez]

+1

[Creativemind]

And while we're on the subject, you can already draw automation on the grid, but you cannot QUANTIZE existing automation events to the grid.
Add to the growing feature suggestion list…