Branching undo history + autosave

Have any feature requests? No promise they'll get to Reason Studios, but you can still discuss them here.
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toddbooster
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Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Location: Toronto, Canada

07 Sep 2018

Hi all,

I'm new here, but I finally joined because I have two feature requests that I don't see many (if any) people talking about, and that is a branching undo history a la Photoshop and an autosave function that tracks version history so you can easily recover a project as it existed on a previous date. If someone wants to go hog wild and throw in a handy "revert to saved" function too, I wouldn't complain.

Anyway, that's all I have for now.

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Loque
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07 Sep 2018

I guess there are plenty of version control systems available...and they are free...Maybe you try one of them and see if it fits your needs.
Reason12, Win10

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C//AZM
Posts: 366
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28 Sep 2018

The Photoshop selective undo is absolutely wonderful. For instance; you've deleted a track, changed the length of a phrase, changed a preset , created another instrument, dug through tons of sounds, then played a perfect take...then you realize you've deleted the wrong track!
With selective undo, you can skip over all of that good work you've done and select only delete track and undo only that deletion. THAT would be a tremendous feature in Reason!! I remember thinking "every software will have this in two years.
Ha Ha! Boy was I wrong.

For Reason, I would like to exclude simple things from the undo list like muting tracks and soloing tracks and stick to major functions.

The autosave function in Protools is the best model IMHO, and it's great because you can set it to auto save in different intervals ( I set mine to two minutes) and I've never seen it screw up operating functions. I don't know if it could work with Reason because of how Reason acts while saving, but it would be a wonderful addition if it won't affect normal operation.

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Loque
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28 Sep 2018

C//AZM wrote:
28 Sep 2018
The Photoshop selective undo is absolutely wonderful. For instance; you've deleted a track, changed the length of a phrase, changed a preset , created another instrument, dug through tons of sounds, then played a perfect take...then you realize you've deleted the wrong track!
With selective undo, you can skip over all of that good work you've done and select only delete track and undo only that deletion. THAT would be a tremendous feature in Reason!! I remember thinking "every software will have this in two years.
Ha Ha! Boy was I wrong.

For Reason, I would like to exclude simple things from the undo list like muting tracks and soloing tracks and stick to major functions.

The autosave function in Protools is the best model IMHO, and it's great because you can set it to auto save in different intervals ( I set mine to two minutes) and I've never seen it screw up operating functions. I don't know if it could work with Reason because of how Reason acts while saving, but it would be a wonderful addition if it won't affect normal operation.
Hmm....yea, sometimes i wanted some kind of history window, because every undo took 3 seconds, and if there were 10...i guess you get the point...So time saving is my first requirement here, and to "see" where i want to go with the undo can be good here and there.

Not sure how they implemented it, but in most cases it is some kind of undo-"list", which just needs names for every entry. But as a first step, a time stamp would be enough..
Reason12, Win10

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C//AZM
Posts: 366
Joined: 20 Jan 2015

28 Sep 2018

Loque wrote:
28 Sep 2018
C//AZM wrote:
28 Sep 2018
The Photoshop selective undo is absolutely wonderful. For instance; you've deleted a track, changed the length of a phrase, changed a preset , created another instrument, dug through tons of sounds, then played a perfect take...then you realize you've deleted the wrong track!
With selective undo, you can skip over all of that good work you've done and select only delete track and undo only that deletion. THAT would be a tremendous feature in Reason!! I remember thinking "every software will have this in two years.
Ha Ha! Boy was I wrong.

For Reason, I would like to exclude simple things from the undo list like muting tracks and soloing tracks and stick to major functions.

The autosave function in Protools is the best model IMHO, and it's great because you can set it to auto save in different intervals ( I set mine to two minutes) and I've never seen it screw up operating functions. I don't know if it could work with Reason because of how Reason acts while saving, but it would be a wonderful addition if it won't affect normal operation.
Hmm....yea, sometimes i wanted some kind of history window, because every undo took 3 seconds, and if there were 10...i guess you get the point...So time saving is my first requirement here, and to "see" where i want to go with the undo can be good here and there.

Not sure how they implemented it, but in most cases it is some kind of undo-"list", which just needs names for every entry. But as a first step, a time stamp would be enough..
The cool thing is you could undo the 10th action without undoing what came after it. The names can be the same as what's already there. So in this picture, you could select any item and it will only undo that item without affecting the other.
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Creativemind
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28 Sep 2018

C//AZM wrote:
28 Sep 2018
For Reason, I would like to exclude simple things from the undo list like muting tracks and soloing tracks and stick to major functions.
I agree. Reason undoes too much. I find it great a times but annoying at other times. I think more annoying than I do not. Moving an instrument that you can just move back again is a wasted undo in my opinion and colouring, relabelling tracks or zooming in and out aren't worth it either. It should just undo 'destructive' things like when you've chopped an audio track or moved audio transients or tweaked parameters.

I've been wanting an Undo Events List in Reason for over 3 years. It' so handy. I hadn't realised how handy until I was at college in 2014 using Logic and how you could scroll up to a specific undo and undo it...great!

I think I'd like to see it implemented in this fashion:-

Firstly up the undo's to 999 (that's the maximum which can be specified manually by you in FL Studio) and you'd be surprised at how 300 (which is the current amount, which sounds a lot but not really) can be exceeded if you've been working on a big project for a couple of hours, especially in Reason with it's undo everything policy. I'd got up to 220 undo events in an hour or so on one daw with less things being undone than Reason.

Secondly I'd like to see it searchable, so type Thor in a box and only the events with Thor in them show up which are gonna be Thor undo's aren't they and

Thirdly, going back to the Reason undoes everything behaviour it is now, a customisable undo events list. In other words, have a box with the undo's in it but somewhere within that box have a menu with a checklist of things it can undo (if this isn't somehow too hard to program) and you could uncheck things you didn't want it to undo. Example:-

Colouring of Clips
Moving Tracks and Devices
Relabelling Tracks
Zoom In / Out

Those 4 in particular I'd uncheck.
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esselfortium
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28 Sep 2018

An undo history palette would be great. When undoing some major changes, it's a nuisance having to keep mashing cmd-z for however long until you get back to what you wanted to undo.

(Using a version-control system was suggested in this thread, but that doesn't solve the same problem as this at all. I manually make backup copies of song files before opening them for editing, which is about equivalent to what an external version-control system would be able to do here.)

As for where to put such a feature, Reason's tools palette is due for a rethinking...

edit, replying to the above post: Errr... Having the undo feature actually exclude certain types of actions would make a complete mess, because undoing the past bunch of actions wouldn't reliably take you to where you started. With an undo history list you'd be able to just scroll up in the list and click once to go back to where you want to go, there would be no need for such an awkward solution.
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C//AZM
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28 Sep 2018

Creativemind wrote:
28 Sep 2018
C//AZM wrote:
28 Sep 2018
For Reason, I would like to exclude simple things from the undo list like muting tracks and soloing tracks and stick to major functions.
I agree. Reason undoes too much. I find it great a times but annoying at other times. I think more annoying than I do not. Moving an instrument that you can just move back again is a wasted undo in my opinion and colouring, relabelling tracks or zooming in and out aren't worth it either. It should just undo 'destructive' things like when you've chopped an audio track or moved audio transients or tweaked parameters.

I've been wanting an Undo Events List in Reason for over 3 years. It' so handy. I hadn't realised how handy until I was at college in 2014 using Logic and how you could scroll up to a specific undo and undo it...great!

I think I'd like to see it implemented in this fashion:-

Firstly up the undo's to 999 (that's the maximum which can be specified manually by you in FL Studio) and you'd be surprised at how 300 (which is the current amount, which sounds a lot but not really) can be exceeded if you've been working on a big project for a couple of hours, especially in Reason with it's undo everything policy. I'd got up to 220 undo events in an hour or so on one daw with less things being undone than Reason.

Secondly I'd like to see it searchable, so type Thor in a box and only the events with Thor in them show up which are gonna be Thor undo's aren't they and

Thirdly, going back to the Reason undoes everything behaviour it is now, a customisable undo events list. In other words, have a box with the undo's in it but somewhere within that box have a menu with a checklist of things it can undo (if this isn't somehow too hard to program) and you could uncheck things you didn't want it to undo. Example:-

Colouring of Clips
Moving Tracks and Devices
Relabelling Tracks
Zoom In / Out

Those 4 in particular I'd uncheck.
That's a good list, I was sitting here away from the studio computer trying to remember all of the unnecessary undo things; I think you've boiled it down nicely at "Destructive things."

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C//AZM
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28 Sep 2018

esselfortium wrote:
28 Sep 2018
An undo history palette would be great. When undoing some major changes, it's a nuisance having to keep mashing cmd-z for however long until you get back to what you wanted to undo.

(Using a version-control system was suggested in this thread, but that doesn't solve the same problem as this at all. I manually make backup copies of song files before opening them for editing, which is about equivalent to what an external version-control system would be able to do here.)

As for where to put such a feature, Reason's tools palette is due for a rethinking...

edit, replying to the above post: Errr... Having the undo feature actually exclude certain types of actions would make a complete mess, because undoing the past bunch of actions wouldn't reliably take you to where you started. With an undo history list you'd be able to just scroll up in the list and click once to go back to where you want to go, there would be no need for such an awkward solution.
I dunno, I'd rather not have to treadle through every simple thing I do like zoom and color change and name a track and solo un-solo just to get to the important thing I need to undo. Check out Protools and many other software, they get along fine without undoing every single thing.

Actually, most software behaves like that.

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Loque
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28 Sep 2018

C//AZM wrote:
28 Sep 2018
Loque wrote:
28 Sep 2018

Hmm....yea, sometimes i wanted some kind of history window, because every undo took 3 seconds, and if there were 10...i guess you get the point...So time saving is my first requirement here, and to "see" where i want to go with the undo can be good here and there.

Not sure how they implemented it, but in most cases it is some kind of undo-"list", which just needs names for every entry. But as a first step, a time stamp would be enough..
The cool thing is you could undo the 10th action without undoing what came after it. The names can be the same as what's already there. So in this picture, you could select any item and it will only undo that item without affecting the other.
Yea, but this seem to be complicated to handle for the user. In Photoshop you can also "paint" in and with the history - that is pretty strange for the normal user.
Reason12, Win10

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C//AZM
Posts: 366
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28 Sep 2018

Loque wrote:
28 Sep 2018
C//AZM wrote:
28 Sep 2018


The cool thing is you could undo the 10th action without undoing what came after it. The names can be the same as what's already there. So in this picture, you could select any item and it will only undo that item without affecting the other.
Yea, but this seem to be complicated to handle for the user. In Photoshop you can also "paint" in and with the history - that is pretty strange for the normal user.
I guess...I've never had a problem with it and I'm an idiot and a non manual reader.

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tiker01
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28 Sep 2018

It would have been handy a few times yeah!
    
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RandyEspoda
Posts: 275
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26 Sep 2019

Agreed on all counts.

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selig
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26 Sep 2019

As has been discussed here before, an external version control system won't really address the issue for me because Reason saves all audio with the song. What I suggested way back when Record was introduced was an integrated internal version system for the song data. This would allow saving the song in various states without re-saving the audio files each time, and much more as well.

This would go hand in hand with an "auto - save" suggestions, but would work with "versions" and would allow you to define how many versions to save/keep, and how often to save.

Combine that with the undo history suggested in this thread and you would have a killer file management system par excellence.

One final piece of the puzzle would be the ability to import data from one version (or external song file) into the current version, for workflows such as mixing multiple songs that share certain instruments such as drums or vocals, allowing you to import the channel settings for the first mix into the next mix (so you don't have to start from scratch each time). I used this feature all the time in Pro Tools, which gives you lots of control over which tracks to import to/from, and which data to import (EQ, Inserts, dynamics, sends, fader position/automation, etc). This also lets you re-use your favorite vocal chains etc. for use in any future song.

"Versions" would allow you to do common things such as to save your song as a full mix, alternate mix (with more vocal), instrument mix, etc. and not have to save the audio each time. Additionally, switching between versions would be near instant, since you're not closing/opening the song, just updating settings.

And this feature would also allow super easy collaboration because you could simply import the newest "version" from your collaborator into your current song, which keeps everything neatly in one place and well organized, as well as allowing you to easily integrate only parts of the new version into your current version to create further variations all in one place.

This has been my dream for so long now I've all but given up on it ever happening, but it's still a good idea worth sharing IMO!
Selig Audio, LLC

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Creativemind
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Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

26 Sep 2019

I did like the undo thing someone posted on here a few weeks ago from Logic. You have (If memory serves me correct) undo's in 3 categories - instruments, sequencer and mixer but in Reasons case it could be Rack, Sequencer and Main Mixer. Also with a search box and an undo preferences list with undo types you can deselect (does that sound uncodeable?). Let's also not forget that the undo's should display the time next to them so you could go back to roughly the time you did something to find an undo.

Selig - that versions sounds amazing.

I would also like to see a "Project Selector" welcome screen in Reason. So when you fire Reason up and you've logged in, you're greeted with a Reason Studios screen where it has 5 picture boxes in the middle of the screen with the top left corners cornered off and "1", "2", "3" etc in them. 1 was the last project you had open and underneath it would have the project name (whatever it was saved as) there. You could also rename that project and it would rename the project and the file on your computer without creating another file. You could hover over the pictures and the picture would enlarge bigger than the others (kind of jump out) to signify selection. Clicking it would select it. You could also move the mouse to the right and the projects would scroll automatically back to last 30 projects you had open. You could have a search box to search for a specific project too. The pictures could be a generic Reason Studios pic with the 3D box but you could also change this to a jpg or png of your choice

Last but not least, pressing esc would bypass this screen and go straight to a blank project if you so wished and this screen could be unchecked in the preferences if you didn't want it to load up each time.

Also, instead of having a list of the last 8 projects you had open at the bottom of the file menu, you now just have the new Reason Studios logo which you can double-click to take you to this new Project Selector page.
:reason:

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dezma
Posts: 268
Joined: 02 Jun 2015

07 Oct 2019

These are all great ideas, but if most "best of class" DAW's don't feature this yet then we'll need to be realistic and assume the absence of the functionality will probably outlive us at the current improvements pace :|

The fact they don't have a basic undo history and autosave anno 2019 is really mind boggling imo.

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selig
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07 Oct 2019

dezma wrote:
07 Oct 2019
These are all great ideas, but if most "best of class" DAW's don't feature this yet then we'll need to be realistic and assume the absence of the functionality will probably outlive us at the current improvements pace :|
Understood Reason Studios moves at a glacial pace, but all the features I've suggested are currently available in DAWs like Pro Tools and Logic, even if they didn't have all of these features when they were originally suggested.
Selig Audio, LLC

Yonatan
Posts: 1556
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

07 Oct 2019

Many good points. I mean, in these fields of handling info and data is what one would love a DAW to be a bit more intelligent about in the 2020's. This and a few more Browser improvments.

Selig vision for better collaboration and flexibility, is such improvements that would take Reason to another workflow level of experience.

The thought of saving different mixer presets etc, would be so handy. Imagine to be able to fast compare a few different mixing or mastering versions, just in one click while referencing on different devices.

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miscend
Posts: 1955
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

07 Oct 2019

I like how the undo history in Photoshop can also be used to record macro functions. That would be a good feature to have in order to save time on very repetitive tasks. Autosaving and a versioning system would also be nice additions.

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