I'd Like To Do Almost Everything From The Sequencer View

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hurricane
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23 Jan 2018

I strongly believe the future of Reason lies in the sequencer page, not the rack window. Therefore I think more attention needs to be paid to it. I'd like to be able to adjust volume and pan on the seq page. There's no way to quickly do that now. And no, not the automation way. And not a split screen view with the other windows.

I'd also love the ability to click on the instrument icon and have the actual instrument zoom out at me on the screen and float so that I could quickly edit it. And call it "quick float edit" so that people know that in order to mess with cables they have to switch to the rack. But as I'm listening to playback on my full screen view of the sequencer page, and I realize that I need to adjust the envelopes on one of my synths, I don't want to leave the sequencer view and go to the rack to do so. I want it to pop out at me so I could do it quickly in 3 seconds.

I'd also like some way - ON THE SEQUENCER SCREEN - to see if any of my tracks have effects attached to them. But have this be hidden from the normal track view as not to clutter things up. Maybe have it nested within the track like an ALT take, but with the ability to collapse it back so that it goes away.I'd also like the ability to "quick float edit" those effects from the sequencer view.

Also would like to be able to loop audio files like how it's done in Logic. I'm not talking about drag copying while holding a modifier key or copy+paste - I mean dragging out a looped copy as many times as I want.
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antic604

23 Jan 2018

Disagree with 1st sentence, but agree with most that follows :)

Reposting from the other thread:
antic604 wrote:
16 Dec 2017
Great topic. My requests as a fresh Reason user:
- editing of multiple clips at once, with notes / audio visible at the same time,
- option to add effects' automation lanes to the track of the instrument they belong to,
- grouping tracks in folders, hiding of tracks,
- ability to easily select a vertical slice of the arrangement and making Block out of it,
- while working on single screen, other views collapsed - double-clicking the device thumbnail moves focus to Rack, anywhere else on channel's header to the Mixer,
- alias clips (ie. clips duplicated with modifier key mirror changes made to the original),
- an option to choose a device from a Combinator and VSTs GUI to be displayed as a track's thumbnail image, instead of white anonymous box (yes, I know you can skin them),
- in-track editing of audio and MIDI, without the need to go to separate mode/window
- curves in automation.

Otherwise it's perfect :)

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TritoneAddiction
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23 Jan 2018

Just press F5 or F7, turn the volume/pan knob and you're there. I don't see the problem. I jump between F5, F6 and F7 constantly always full screen mode and I like it that way. It's very quick imo. Let's not try to cram every function in one window. It's fine the way it is.

I'm not really a fan of floating windows either, that's why I stay away from VSTs as much as possible.

Sorry I don't agree.

antic604

23 Jan 2018

TritoneAddiction wrote:
23 Jan 2018
Just press F5 or F7, turn the volume/pan knob and you're there. I don't see the problem. I jump between F5, F6 and F7 constantly always full screen mode and I like it that way. It's very quick imo. Let's not try to cram every function in one window. It's fine the way it is.

I'm not really a fan of floating windows either, that's why I stay away from VSTs as much as possible.

Sorry I don't agree.
I'd agree with this, if it was consistent - in both Rack and Mixer there are buttons transporting you to Mixer/Sequencer and Rack/Sequencer respectively, so it's not the same in Sequencer itself?

Also, going by my proposal above it wouldn't require any changes in GUI (new buttons): double-clicking on device thumbnail would go to Rack window, anywhere else on track header to the Mixer window. Right now performing those actions does nothing.

Lastly it's not like adding this would change anything for your workflow or for the look of Reason. You'd simply not double-click there and continue using your F5-7. I work like that currently, but I always need to actively think which 'F' goes where.

At the very least, a shortcut like Shift+TAB should be added to cycle between Seq / Rack / Mixer screens, for those that migrated from Ableton or Bitwig :)


antic604

23 Jan 2018

joeyluck wrote:
23 Jan 2018
When you click on the track in the Sequencer, it navigates to that device in the Rack.
It doesn't when you work on a single screen, cycling between full-screen views, like you would typically on a laptop. Well, technically it does but you don't see it.

And please spare me the "real producers use 2+ monitors" that is sure to inevitably follow... ;) :P

I can't work like this (Surface Pro 4, 200% scalling):

Image

While this - 150% scalling, like I use in Bitwig & Live - would be acceptable, if a) Reason properly supported high-DPI screens and wasn't blurry mess, b) you could put Rack & Mixer side by side, instead on top of eachother, which would allow to use screen estate more effectively:

Image

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joeyluck
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23 Jan 2018

Well I use a single screen on a 13" MacBook Air, so yes, I'll spare you the 2+ monitor spiel :)

It would be nice if when the windows are attached, that Reason automatically scaled the Rack window to fit the device, but then of course, it would be shrinking other windows, which might not be desired.

One thing I like to do is to place each window in full screen mode in macOS and switch between them via three finger swipe on the trackpad.

antic604

23 Jan 2018

joeyluck wrote:
23 Jan 2018
One thing I like to do is to place each window in full screen mode in macOS and switch between them via three finger swipe on the trackpad.
Yeah, I'm familiar with this "trick" and it also works on Windows 10, but I hate the graphical inconsistency: Rack is missing the top divider (gray bar with "Rack" on it) and Mixer is additionally missing the browser and transport bar altogether.

It's just that Reason's GUI setup hasn't really changed in last 15+ years and it's geared towards PC monitor(s) users and not laptop "producers". I mean just look at all this wasted space:

Image

Just removing those screen dividers and reducing height of the Sequencer's toolbar and transport bar would give 2-3 extra tracks and 1-2 extra devices in the browser. Those are simple things that Props could make optional if they at all cared about such users.

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hurricane
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23 Jan 2018

TritoneAddiction wrote:
23 Jan 2018

Let's not try to cram every function in one window. It's fine the way it is.

I'm not really a fan of floating windows either, that's why I stay away from VSTs as much as possible.

Sorry I don't agree.
Well, how I described the implementation you wouldn't even notice the extra functionality. And you wouldn't even have to use it if you didn't want to. So what's the prob?

I like working on one screen, with one Reason page at a time. I HATE the 3 window scrunched-up look - I can't work like that. I'm also not on a laptop.
When I'm done with a track I like to hover on the sequencer page and make final tweaks as I listen. Most of the time I make changes to the synth itself or make panning and volume changes. I don't like the constant switching between windows. I also like to work in the dark, and my keyboard doesn't light up. Makes fiddling with the F-Keys a pain, but right now I use TABS to visually switch between windows, which is fine, but it could be much better.
reason tabs.png
reason tabs.png (70.25 KiB) Viewed 4565 times
What the sequencer view needs is something like the Track Inspector in Logic. With this view below I don't have to switch between any windows, and the window that remains is full of space, and I can pretty much do everything I want here.
onewindow.jpg
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miscend
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23 Jan 2018

I agree with all your ideas. I think they would be genuine work flow enhancements. I mean right now you can already adjust levels from the rack view. If you add a few more editing options to the sequencer view it would be just as awesome.


I’m a big fan of resizable floating windows for all devices. That are accessible in all views including the sequencer and mixer.

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hurricane
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23 Jan 2018

Thanks.

Since antic mentioned "wasted space" - something which has always bugged me is that the sequencer view has sooooo much wasted space. It needs a remake. Here's a perfect example:

See those ugly light-colored track dividers?"


tracklines.jpg
tracklines.jpg (361.24 KiB) Viewed 4320 times


I took the liberty of stacking them together to give you an approximate look at how much space they take up. Get rid of those please. They are unnecessarily too thick. Make them skinnier at least. They take up two full instrument lanes.


wasted-space.jpg
wasted-space.jpg (371.61 KiB) Viewed 4320 times

There's also more than enough room under the M and S letters to add a V and P for volume and pan.
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Pralijah
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24 Jan 2018

I am with you on those remarks. I also have used Logic recently at a course, and when got back to Reason, it felt too jumpy and way too limited in the sequencer mode. Sequencer mode really needs to be brought up to a higher level of workflow. I love to have the option to be able to work in all three modes; Sequencer, Rack and Mixer. But the Sequencer is where recording, (re-)arrangements and editing (midi/audio/automation) takes place, and to jump here and there when working on a laptop (as many users do these days), is not good for a more streamlined workflow.
I think that the sequencer and the too limited midi/audio editing, is Reason´s weakest link. And that is where most will spend 80% of the time.
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jlgrimes
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11 Jun 2018

antic604 wrote:
23 Jan 2018
Disagree with 1st sentence, but agree with most that follows :)

Reposting from the other thread:
antic604 wrote:
16 Dec 2017
Great topic. My requests as a fresh Reason user:
- editing of multiple clips at once, with notes / audio visible at the same time,
- option to add effects' automation lanes to the track of the instrument they belong to,
- grouping tracks in folders, hiding of tracks,
- ability to easily select a vertical slice of the arrangement and making Block out of it,
- while working on single screen, other views collapsed - double-clicking the device thumbnail moves focus to Rack, anywhere else on channel's header to the Mixer,
- alias clips (ie. clips duplicated with modifier key mirror changes made to the original),
- an option to choose a device from a Combinator and VSTs GUI to be displayed as a track's thumbnail image, instead of white anonymous box (yes, I know you can skin them),
- in-track editing of audio and MIDI, without the need to go to separate mode/window
- curves in automation.

Otherwise it's perfect :)
I somewhat agree with the op on this one.

The Rack View is the most unique thing about Reason, while the sequencer is kind of forgotten.

IMO. The sequencer GUI needs to be revamped.

I hate how you can't set individual track heights and fully max out an audio clip for deep audio editing.

Then there are lack of decent snap options, lack of markers. Lack of a good fade choices. Lack of good tools like curves and such for drawing.

I hope if they do a GUI enhancement, they need to touch ALL areas.

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selig
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12 Jun 2018

I totally agree with the premise of this thread, which is that the overall approach to the UI needs to change.

Threads that mention all the little things that need to change are all good and well, but I think that we need to think more big picture (at least some of the time).

I agree that one screen based on the sequencer is a great starting point. From there you can always go to the Rack or the Mixer to work on specific things. But there are creative solutions to staying mostly on one screen and still preserving the “Reason” approach IMO.

But I also think this will take an overhaul of the concept, since some of these things won’t be easy to do with the current approach.

The one big thing that would make all of this possible is a change to the way tracks and channels work - that is to say, they need to be merged so that for one there is only one type of channel/track that acts as a container for all related devices. This “mega-channel” would allow all related devices to be grouped logically in all views, keep all related data for audio, MIDI, and automation in one place, act as a group when audio is split into multiple sub-channels such as when working with ReDrum or Kong, and allow you to freeze/thaw MIDI to audio without creating additional tracks.

This approach would not only simplify things, but also expand functionality (which is not easy to do otherwise). More importantly it will clarify the interface and give a feeling of greater consistency overall. And of course it would allow all controls for a “logical instrument” to appear on one screen as the OP suggests.
:)


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jetpilot00
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12 Jun 2018

Reason, for most of its life, has been made to be a two or three screen program as it works wonderfully like that. I certainly would change sequencer features / aesthetics, mixer features / aesthetics and rack aesthetics but if they lose the basics of how those three screens work on 3 monitors, I would be severely disappointed. I LOVE how easy it is to have all 3 screens logistically opened for ease of use.
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selig
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12 Jun 2018

jetpilot00 wrote:
12 Jun 2018
Reason, for most of its life, has been made to be a two or three screen program as it works wonderfully like that. I certainly would change sequencer features / aesthetics, mixer features / aesthetics and rack aesthetics but if they lose the basics of how those three screens work on 3 monitors, I would be severely disappointed. I LOVE how easy it is to have all 3 screens logistically opened for ease of use.
Why would anything have to be removed, feature wise, to accommodate this?

I recognize there are two camps of users that both need to be heard: those that don't want Reason to change and adopt common DAW features, and those that do (and want more innovation in this direction). Any path forward needs to address both parties IMO.
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jappe
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12 Jun 2018

I'd love to have the sequencer pluginable...Props provides the framework for making custom Sequencer views and provides a couple default implementations including the current view.
Let the community work.

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esselfortium
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12 Jun 2018

jappe wrote:
12 Jun 2018
I'd love to have the sequencer pluginable...Props provides the framework for making custom Sequencer views and provides a couple default implementations including the current view.
Let the community work.
Sequencer plugins would be brilliant. Plugins for the rack have opened up so many new possibilities, and expanding that to other parts of the program would be incredible.
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Noplan
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12 Jun 2018

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jetpilot00
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12 Jun 2018

selig wrote:
12 Jun 2018
jetpilot00 wrote:
12 Jun 2018
Reason, for most of its life, has been made to be a two or three screen program as it works wonderfully like that. I certainly would change sequencer features / aesthetics, mixer features / aesthetics and rack aesthetics but if they lose the basics of how those three screens work on 3 monitors, I would be severely disappointed. I LOVE how easy it is to have all 3 screens logistically opened for ease of use.
Why would anything have to be removed, feature wise, to accommodate this?

I recognize there are two camps of users that both need to be heard: those that don't want Reason to change and adopt common DAW features, and those that do (and want more innovation in this direction). Any path forward needs to address both parties IMO.
Sorry, Giles.

Should have used the word "update" instead of "change".

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selig
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17 Jun 2018

I've been contemplating this concept as a part of a bigger "vision" of how Reason (and other DAWs) can grow and improve, since most of the popular DAWs are now many years old and have been hacked into their current form to do things never intended to be done originally. That would mean the time is ripe for a new approach from the ground up, that (among other things) deals with audio and MIDI equally from the beginning instead of starting as focused on one and adding the other later in time.

Along those lines, I've created a mockup that shows my VERY basic ideas about how this "do everything from the sequencer" should work, using Reason as an example (originally created as a way to build a new "ground up" DAW that didn't need multiple windows unless you chose to do so intentionally.

Here's the rough walk through of the approach I chose, with no audio (just text):
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C//AZM
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27 Jun 2018

That's great Idea OP.
and I especially like the idea of Pan and Volume on the sequencer track. Protools, Logic and others do that easily enough with little faders above the Mute Solo buttons.

Even though I use the Mac, three finger swipe to all three full windows, I like Giles' idea of slide and peek at the other windows from the sequencer...
but for now, before the great sequencer update, I'd settle for the duplication of the rack-seq buttons found on the mixer in the sequencer and the rack.(wait, are they already in the rack?.

Troublemecca
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28 Jun 2018

Noplan wrote:
VP.jpg
SSL gain knob on the rack channels too please. Really annoying to have to constantly switch screens when you just want to turn down the channel input gain. Why put a mix-fader in rack-view but not input gain????

Clicking on track in seq will take you to device in rack, but not to its corresponding channel on the mixer... Why no "mixer" button on sequencer tracks?

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Noplan
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28 Jun 2018

Troublemecca wrote:
28 Jun 2018
Noplan wrote:VP.jpg
SSL gain knob on the rack channels too please. Really annoying to have to constantly switch screens when you just want to turn down the channel input gain. Why put a mix-fader in rack-view but not input gain????

Clicking on track in seq will take you to device in rack, but not to its corresponding channel on the mixer... Why no "mixer" button on sequencer tracks?

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk
Look more closely. I have a gain button in my picture. :)

Troublemecca
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28 Jun 2018

Noplan wrote:
Troublemecca wrote:
28 Jun 2018
SSL gain knob on the rack channels too please. Really annoying to have to constantly switch screens when you just want to turn down the channel input gain. Why put a mix-fader in rack-view but not input gain????

Clicking on track in seq will take you to device in rack, but not to its corresponding channel on the mixer... Why no "mixer" button on sequencer tracks?

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Look more closely. I have a gain button in my picture. :)
I see it, but that would be in the sequencer view no? I said in the rack.

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