Propellerhead should improve search performance of folders containing Refills and other audio files.

Have any feature requests? No promise they'll get to Reason Studios, but you can still discuss them here.
jlgrimes
Posts: 661
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

16 Jul 2018

devilfish wrote:
14 Apr 2015
prndrsn wrote:Search speeds will probably be affected by disk read speeds more than anything. What kind of drive do you have (SSD or mechanical), and what's the RPM of the drive if it's mechanical?
Bullshit!
Search speeds will probably be affected by THE PROPELLERHEAD SOFTWARE CODE more than anything.

The Browser in R8 is still slow!  
I have tested many computers, operating systems and drives. Over a number of years. Reason is the only DAW that does work very slow with my (wav) database.

FL Studio = fast as hell
Cubase 6 = fast as hell
Ableton Live 8 = fast as hell
Reason 6/7/8 = damn slow
There is some truth to SSD speeding up your search time.

There is also truth to Reason being slower than other browsers.

Ableton is pretty fast. I think their databasing of the library helps. That said when Adding new files, Ableton has to scan the files which takes time.

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Namyo85
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17 Jul 2018

Against my better judgement I'm gonna say this.
Reasons browser is slower than a three toed sloth with amnesia trying to move a grand piano.... uphill.

deepndark
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22 Jul 2018

I started a topic earlier this year: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7506443&hilit=smart+search

And suggested some improvement ideas for search.

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nscerri
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22 Jul 2018

deepndark wrote:I started a topic earlier this year: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7506443&hilit=smart+search

And suggested some improvement ideas for search.
Hi Deepndark,

Thanks for the link, based on what you suggested, there are very well known searching algorithms and indexing methods that will make your suggestions easily doable.

This post has been created in 2015 and today in 2018 it is still pending :(

Propellerhead, please, on behalf of all reason users, we need a new search in Reason.

This has been long overdue.

Noel





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JiggeryPokery
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23 Jul 2018

I always remember running this search while doing a new track not long after Reason 8 appeared. That was on a Phenom 965 with a Crucial C300 SATA SSD.

I thought, because I'm a masochist, I'd recreate that wonderful experience on my current Ryzen 1800X with its accompanying top-of-the-line EVO 960 1TB, which was, by most accounts, the fastest consumer SSD released in 2017. Note it's also got both passive (heatsink) and additional active fan-cooling, so there's no throttling applied to the SSD either ;) .

To fully appreciate the experience, I suggest watching the video from start to end without break :twisted:

We start by running the search first in Windows 10 Explorer to get a baseline...


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Carly(Poohbear)
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23 Jul 2018

JiggeryPokery wrote:
23 Jul 2018
I always remember running this search while doing a new track not long after Reason 8 appeared. That was on a Phenom 965 with a Crucial C300 SATA SSD.

I thought, because I'm a masochist, I'd recreate that wonderful experience on my current Ryzen 1800X with its accompanying top-of-the-line EVO 960 1TB, which was, by most accounts, the fastest consumer SSD released in 2017. Note it's also got both passive (heatsink) and additional active fan-cooling, so there's no throttling applied to the SSD either ;) .

To fully appreciate the experience, I suggest watching the video from start to end without break :twisted:

We start by running the search first in Windows 10 Explorer to get a baseline...
I cheated and skipped the middle 5 minutes and 50 seconds of the video.... :lol:

what gets me is this stuff is not rocket science..

Allowing more than 2000 items per favourite lists could be a simple starting point. I did tests with external USB drives and added the patches etc to a fav list, searching was quite quick from that (looked more like filtering than search as the search box does not come up)...

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normen
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23 Jul 2018

JiggeryPokery wrote:
23 Jul 2018
We start by running the search first in Windows 10 Explorer to get a baseline...
Dunno if you can consider a system-wide databank that has information on all files and file changes a "baseline" when comparing to a search that apparently actually goes through all files to find the right ones.

Reason can't know about external changes, thats why it looks through all files. So I guess the best way would be to simply integrate Reason with the database systems that are by now integrated in all OS's and power their searches. That would even allow searching for single files inside ReFills right from the system search.

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JiggeryPokery
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23 Jul 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
23 Jul 2018
JiggeryPokery wrote:
23 Jul 2018
I always remember running this search while doing a new track not long after Reason 8 appeared. That was on a Phenom 965 with a Crucial C300 SATA SSD.

I thought, because I'm a masochist, I'd recreate that wonderful experience on my current Ryzen 1800X with its accompanying top-of-the-line EVO 960 1TB, which was, by most accounts, the fastest consumer SSD released in 2017. Note it's also got both passive (heatsink) and additional active fan-cooling, so there's no throttling applied to the SSD either ;) .

To fully appreciate the experience, I suggest watching the video from start to end without break :twisted:

We start by running the search first in Windows 10 Explorer to get a baseline...
I cheated and skipped the middle 5 minutes and 50 seconds of the video.... :lol:

what gets me is this stuff is not rocket science..

Allowing more than 2000 items per favourite lists could be a simple starting point. I did tests with external USB drives and added the patches etc to a fav list, searching was quite quick from that (looked more like filtering than search as the search box does not come up)...
If I had to guess, I'd wonder if the Reason search is searching file contents, not just file names. I've no idea why anyone would need to do text searches of rx2 contents, so perhaps it was an off-the-shelf piece of search code licensed-in from somewhere and plugged straight into the browser. No-one tested it on "real-world" searches (it got pointed at a folder with a dozen files in it and it seemed perfectly quick there so it must therefore be working perfectly everywhere!). There's been about eight point and upgrade Reason releases since. That kinda speaks volumes.
Last edited by JiggeryPokery on 23 Jul 2018, edited 1 time in total.

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JiggeryPokery
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23 Jul 2018

normen wrote:
23 Jul 2018
JiggeryPokery wrote:
23 Jul 2018
We start by running the search first in Windows 10 Explorer to get a baseline...
Dunno if you can consider a system-wide databank that has information on all files and file changes a "baseline" when comparing to a search that apparently actually goes through all files to find the right ones.

Reason can't know about external changes, thats why it looks through all files. So I guess the best way would be to simply integrate Reason with the database systems that are by now integrated in all OS's and power their searches. That would even allow searching for single files inside ReFills right from the system search.
I agree it's a fair point to raise, but I would note I don't have Indexing turned on (and never have). So as far as Windows is concerned (as far as my understanding is concerned, and feel free to expand it if it's lacking), it's searching the folder for the first time every time. And of course, my "5 seconds" statement is wrong because at least 2 seconds of that was entering the search term, so really Windows search of 15K files for anything with "bongo" in the filename is sub 3s.

Maybe I've got the old rose-count glasses on again, but I don't recall the Reason <=7 Search having those issues.

It'd be nice to get "View Patches by Device" back too. Browsing for inspirational instrument patches can sometimes be a chore and when Reason keeps freezing while it loads up huge Combinators, cos <coughs> some idiot mixed formats in the same folder. <coughs> ;)

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normen
Posts: 3431
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23 Jul 2018

JiggeryPokery wrote:
23 Jul 2018
normen wrote:
23 Jul 2018


Dunno if you can consider a system-wide databank that has information on all files and file changes a "baseline" when comparing to a search that apparently actually goes through all files to find the right ones.

Reason can't know about external changes, thats why it looks through all files. So I guess the best way would be to simply integrate Reason with the database systems that are by now integrated in all OS's and power their searches. That would even allow searching for single files inside ReFills right from the system search.
I agree it's a fair point to raise, but I would note I don't have Indexing turned on (and never have). So as far as Windows is concerned (as far as my understanding is concerned, and feel free to expand it if it's lacking), it's searching the folder for the first time every time. And of course, my "5 seconds" statement is wrong because at least 2 seconds of that was entering the search term, so really Windows search of 15K files for anything with "bongo" in the filename is sub 3s.

Maybe I've got the old rose-count glasses on again, but I don't recall the Reason <=7 Search having those issues.

It'd be nice to get "View Patches by Device" back too. Browsing for inspirational instrument patches can sometimes be a chore and when Reason keeps freezing while it loads up huge Combinators, cos <coughs> some idiot mixed formats in the same folder. <coughs> ;)
Yeah, I completely agree that the search can be improved a lot and 5 minutes is just completely out of hand and downright buggy from the get-go. But yeah you know, apples, oranges and buttholes - edibility doesn't make for a good comparison point there ;)

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JiggeryPokery
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23 Jul 2018

I've just run the bongo test again in Explorer, but this time turned on "Advanced Options>File Contents".

That search of the Zero_G REX folder took a LOT longer... 3 minutes 19.

So, that would back up a theory that Reason searches are on file contents, not just names. Only, it's still nearly twice as long as Windows.

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nscerri
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Location: Malta

23 Jul 2018

Indexing and a clever algorithm of how to maintain the database is the key.

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Exowildebeest
Posts: 1553
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

23 Jul 2018

JiggeryPokery wrote:
23 Jul 2018
normen wrote:
23 Jul 2018


Dunno if you can consider a system-wide databank that has information on all files and file changes a "baseline" when comparing to a search that apparently actually goes through all files to find the right ones.

Reason can't know about external changes, thats why it looks through all files. So I guess the best way would be to simply integrate Reason with the database systems that are by now integrated in all OS's and power their searches. That would even allow searching for single files inside ReFills right from the system search.

Maybe I've got the old rose-count glasses on again, but I don't recall the Reason <=7 Search having those issues.
I'd like to remind you that Reason's old browser was even slower and even (on Windows) locked you out of controlling Reason by mouse and keyboard while using it :twisted:
JiggeryPokery wrote:
23 Jul 2018
I've just run the bongo test again in Explorer, but this time turned on "Advanced Options>File Contents".

That search of the Zero_G REX folder took a LOT longer... 3 minutes 19.

So, that would back up a theory that Reason searches are on file contents, not just names. Only, it's still nearly twice as long as Windows.
But what contents does it search? Does it come up with mono .wavs if you search for "mono"? I doubt it. The only thing I can think of is that it searches the content of Refills - which are 1 file, multi-content, but that's a distinct case.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

23 Jul 2018

Puckboy2000 wrote:
02 Apr 2015
I agree. I keep making samples and forgetting where I put them. I wish it would search the whole computer for the files and refills. Although maybe the new drop menu does that? I couldn't tell from the video I watched and I haven't upgraded yet.
I’ve had a “Reason Songs” and “Soundfonts/ReFills” folder since when version 1 and back when soundfonts were still a thing....if you organize tightly then it’s easy to point Reason to the right spot using the “favorites” section in the browser.

This is not to mean there is anything wrong with how you’re doing things, I’m an obsessive organizer from the years of working in big studios where tapes had to be labeled, slated, reference toned, and notated.

I carried that with me into digital audio and have always kept backups of my backups, and a strict “these files go here” type of situation.
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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tt_lab
Posts: 335
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24 Jul 2018

Every audio software needs a good taggin and search engine.
The best I've ever used is the one integrated in NI's maschine.
PH Tags please!

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nscerri
Posts: 116
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Location: Malta

24 Jul 2018

tt_lab wrote:Every audio software needs a good taggin and search engine.
The best I've ever used is the one integrated in NI's maschine.
PH Tags please!
Cannot agree more!

PROPS, please don't let us wait any longer (Pun Intended)!

Noel

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devilfish
Posts: 183
Joined: 20 Jan 2015

07 Oct 2018

Now, it‘s 4/5 years to0 Late ;)

They can‘t! If they could, they would do it! But they can‘t!!

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