Full MPE support (Roli users unite!)

Have any feature requests? No promise they'll get to the Props but you can still discuss them here.
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Ahornberg
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01 Dec 2017

dana wrote:
01 Dec 2017
I have a Seaboard Rise 49

Its one thing recording mpe as midi data, its another editing it - its a nightmare, really.

You are best just recording the output of a synth directly and making your best performance.
That's true!

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Ahornberg
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01 Dec 2017

Some additional information about MPE:
https://support.roli.com/article/what-is-mpe/
https://www.midi.org/articles/midi-poly ... ession-mpe

MPE support in REs is one thing ... editing MPE data is another challenge:
https://www.bitwig.com/en/16/the_future_of_midi.html

Jeff242
Posts: 19
Joined: 05 Jun 2017

02 Dec 2017

joeyluck wrote:
30 Nov 2017
Hey guys, check out Pg. 17 of Computer Music issue 251 ;)
Where they ask, "What's the one feature you would add to your favourite DAW?"
And for you guys (and myself) I said multitimbral/MPE support.
Pretty friggin' cool, yeah? :cool: :cool: :cool:

They have to do it now right? :puf_bigsmile:
Holy sh!t
Your really there in Print!
Your right, now they gotta do it so I can use my Seaboard Rise IN REASON.
I just subscribed to Computer Music because they were offering Vacuum Pro for Free (a synth I would have gladly paid $150 for) and maybe also to check out your claim.
I used to seek out this mag at newsstands way back in 2003 when I was first getting into Using softsynths and I was just learning Reason, Rebirth, and Cubase. I had kinda forgotten about this really cool mag.
Nice job Joeyluck, way to go. You legitimized this thread!!!!

hihakeem
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Joined: 21 Dec 2017

21 Dec 2017

+1

LeoCreer
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Joined: 22 May 2017

26 Dec 2017

Im with you guys on this if reason had full support for MPE this would make reason next Gen DAW

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submonsterz
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26 Dec 2017

LeoCreer wrote:
26 Dec 2017
Im with you guys on this if reason had full support for MPE this would make reason next Gen DAW
Not just aimed at you as I quoted but don't everyone here think getting full basic midi support is a first line need before jumping the gun and requesting other stuff first really let's actually full something not half baked stuff before jumping to things that are not as important as the basic multi channel midi etc etc etc really let's ask to get basics first in order before jumping to a new shop.

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joeyluck
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04 Jan 2018

Just learned of this article via the Roli newsletter. Looks like an interesting read (will read later).

"The future is MPE" by Craig Anderton
https://roli.com/stories/mpe-craig-anderton


33db
Posts: 71
Joined: 26 Nov 2017

01 May 2018

Roli Seaboard works with Reason but it's a PITA to set up.
I also found this:
Image

Amyjer
Posts: 34
Joined: 02 Mar 2015

17 May 2018

33db wrote:Roli Seaboard works with Reason but it's a PITA to set up.
I also found this:
Image
While we wait for MPE, the EXP1 Expression Processor Rack Extension works extremely well with LinnStrument for expressive monophonic control.

https://shop.propellerheads.se/rack-ext ... processor/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jimmyklane
Posts: 733
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

18 May 2018

clader wrote:
14 May 2016
Would LOVE to see full support for Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression in all native PH instruments and in the SDK.

http://expressiveness.org/2015/04/24/mi ... ession-mpe

I've recently jumped on the Roli Seaboard Rise wagon and would love to take advantage of its full capabilities in Reason.

The synth that ships with the Rise (Equator) would be amazing to have in Reason, but I don't need to get into the vst/au debate here.

There are a good number of instruments/synths outside is Reason which are begining to support this standard (Kontakt, Omnisphere, Pulse to name a few), but support is still far from pervasive.

But I think PH with their proprietary "walled garden" approach to RE's are in a unique position to, with one fell swoop, enable MPE support on all their instruments (and provide an easy path for RE devs to just "switch on" MPE for their instruments.

Just think if PH could make MPE supported/available/easy and got a majority of its RE's supporting it, then Reason could be the go-to DAW for all Roli (or linnstrument or other MPE controller) owners and that would be a huge draw to the userbase.

Just my 2 cents.
I’d settle for polyphonic aftertouch....since my main keyboard uses it for its most expressive patches. Reason would be fantastic if only it allowed things like SysEx and NRPNs, etc....unfortunately it’s MIDI implementation is one of its weakest points and the one I really NEED to use, since I’m largely hardware-based.
DAW: Reason 10,

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

Foxandxss
Posts: 2
Joined: 15 May 2018

20 May 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
18 May 2018
clader wrote:
14 May 2016
Would LOVE to see full support for Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression in all native PH instruments and in the SDK.

http://expressiveness.org/2015/04/24/mi ... ession-mpe

I've recently jumped on the Roli Seaboard Rise wagon and would love to take advantage of its full capabilities in Reason.

The synth that ships with the Rise (Equator) would be amazing to have in Reason, but I don't need to get into the vst/au debate here.

There are a good number of instruments/synths outside is Reason which are begining to support this standard (Kontakt, Omnisphere, Pulse to name a few), but support is still far from pervasive.

But I think PH with their proprietary "walled garden" approach to RE's are in a unique position to, with one fell swoop, enable MPE support on all their instruments (and provide an easy path for RE devs to just "switch on" MPE for their instruments.

Just think if PH could make MPE supported/available/easy and got a majority of its RE's supporting it, then Reason could be the go-to DAW for all Roli (or linnstrument or other MPE controller) owners and that would be a huge draw to the userbase.

Just my 2 cents.
I’d settle for polyphonic aftertouch....since my main keyboard uses it for its most expressive patches. Reason would be fantastic if only it allowed things like SysEx and NRPNs, etc....unfortunately it’s MIDI implementation is one of its weakest points and the one I really NEED to use, since I’m largely hardware-based.
What is the problem with midi and reason? I am a new Reason user and I didn't know about MIDI implementation issues with it.

PS: I am a seaboard user as well and I would like MPE support.

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Ahornberg
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20 May 2018

Foxandxss wrote:
20 May 2018

What is the problem with midi and reason? I am a new Reason user and I didn't know about MIDI implementation issues with it.

PS: I am a seaboard user as well and I would like MPE support.
No MIDI channels inside Reason, so no MPE support.
Reaper, Cubase and Bitwig do a better job here.

Foxandxss
Posts: 2
Joined: 15 May 2018

20 May 2018

Ahornberg wrote:
20 May 2018
Foxandxss wrote:
20 May 2018

What is the problem with midi and reason? I am a new Reason user and I didn't know about MIDI implementation issues with it.

PS: I am a seaboard user as well and I would like MPE support.
No MIDI channels inside Reason, so no MPE support.
Reaper, Cubase and Bitwig do a better job here.
But on the hardware interface part (on top) I can see the 16 channels and I can assign that to different things (I tried combinator + multiple thor and they work with the seaboard). I am quite newbie-ish so I could be wrong.

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Ahornberg
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20 May 2018

Foxandxss wrote:
20 May 2018
Ahornberg wrote:
20 May 2018

No MIDI channels inside Reason, so no MPE support.
Reaper, Cubase and Bitwig do a better job here.
But on the hardware interface part (on top) I can see the 16 channels and I can assign that to different things (I tried combinator + multiple thor and they work with the seaboard). I am quite newbie-ish so I could be wrong.
That's true, but for MPE to work you need to send a bunch of MIDI channels (1 + the numer of polyphonic notes you want to play) to one synth (that's quite easy to do e.g. with Diva in Bitwig) - or you use a bunch of synths with the same sound-patch set up, but that's not an intuitive solution because you end up with a lot of MIDI tracks inside Reason.

jimmyklane
Posts: 733
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

20 May 2018

Foxandxss wrote:
20 May 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
18 May 2018


I’d settle for polyphonic aftertouch....since my main keyboard uses it for its most expressive patches. Reason would be fantastic if only it allowed things like SysEx and NRPNs, etc....unfortunately it’s MIDI implementation is one of its weakest points and the one I really NEED to use, since I’m largely hardware-based.
What is the problem with midi and reason? I am a new Reason user and I didn't know about MIDI implementation issues with it.

PS: I am a seaboard user as well and I would like MPE support.
It's that MIDI inside of Reason only supports CC messages. You cannot receive NRPN or SysEx data, you cannot receive poly aftertouch (just channel aftertouch) the sequencer is built for internal devices as opposed to something like Cubase where it was designed from the start to sequence external hardware before hard-disk recording even existed.

That said, I slog through because the modular aspect of routing within Reason means I can sample anything at any time simply by having my hardware hooked up to physical inputs on the audio interfaces, I can send live synths through Reason, apply internal effects and simply move a cable to record that into another sampler. Yes, you can do this in some other DAWs, and I could also do it using the routing in my console, but Reason is faster. I simply wish they would make the MIDI implementation "more mature".
DAW: Reason 10,

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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wireless
Posts: 82
Joined: 14 Apr 2017

11 Jun 2018

Maybe time that the topic on MPE (and Roland Seabord Blocks, Linstrument etc) should be elevated to a more obvious thread as this is somewhat buried.

Just wanted to add that from a musician's perpsective, the ability to add heaps of expressiveness to a performance is totally seductive, and once tasted there is no way back. My point is that I see MPE as a clear future direction for artists and this has to be recognised by the DAW designers, including PH (and no matter how hard it is!).

On expressiveness, I offer a few links below to experience what I'm saying (apologies to those already converted - but the more that 'get it' on MPR, the better).





As for interim solutions, I haven't tried this myself yet, but the link below may be an option? Anybody tried to copy this technique?



To declare my interest, I am a dedicated Reason user since v3 and have been researching the Roli Seabord for about a year. I have literally just taken the plunge and purchased a Seabord Blocks keyboard. The delivery man is literally 24 minutes away as I pen this message!!!!!!
I am personally very keen to have MPE added to Reason, but perhaps having committed to MPE at an instrument level I am now at a point where I may need to transition to Reaper (where recording MPE has been achieved but also the editing of MPE is apparently well thought through) or less likely but possibly Bitwig or Live or Traktion..... It's not like I can use Reason as my main DAW and Rewire in a more capable DAW, since Reason Rewires as a slave and not as a master as I understand it, so I may have to make a move.

Departing my love affair with Reason after all this time would be very very sad.

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joeyluck
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11 Jun 2018

wireless wrote:
11 Jun 2018
I have literally just taken the plunge and purchased a Seabord Blocks keyboard. The delivery man is literally 24 minutes away as I pen this message!!!!!!
I am personally very keen to have MPE added to Reason, but perhaps having committed to MPE at an instrument level I am now at a point where I may need to transition to Reaper (where recording MPE has been achieved but also the editing of MPE is apparently well thought through) or less likely but possibly Bitwig or Live or Traktion..... It's not like I can use Reason as my main DAW and Rewire in a more capable DAW, since Reason Rewires as a slave and not as a master as I understand it, so I may have to make a move.

Departing my love affair with Reason after all this time would be very very sad.
I too have a Seaboard Block and it works wonderfully with Reason for solo instruments such as the SWAM strings bundle which I own. Of course, with a mostly monophonic instrument, it works well inside Reason. Although an update to the SWAM instruments will be coming sometime in the future will allow users to bend and express two simultaneous notes differently in the current dual mode, so will be missing out on that feature inside Reason until Propellerhead adds MPE support.

But in terms of other instruments like Equator and Strobe2, I can only take full advantage of them in standalone mode or when running the AUs in GarageBand, which has MPE support. Yes, even a simplistic, beginner's DAW has MPE support. I can't imagine it will be too much longer for Reason.

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wireless
Posts: 82
Joined: 14 Apr 2017

14 Jun 2018

Thanks for response joeyluck. Two days in, and I'm awestruck with the Roli keyboard. It takes a bit of practice to get the hands operating correctly to the different spacing. I'm also struggling a little with using it in subdued lighting - you know the effect you get when looking at a picture of the moon's craters and you're not sure if they are craters or small hills? Well in dim light I'm getting that effect that confuses my brain into missing the note and picking the flat/sharp instead - they could have avoided that in design by using a different shading instead of just having a large dark surface and picking out the 'black keys' (which of course are white in this design!).

I took advantage of the Roli Birthday offer and got the full version of Equator bundled in the buy price (the cut-down Player version is a sad imitation of the power available). I also got a discount offer to upgrade the Strobe2 player and that was also well worthwhile. Between the two instruments, there are some awesome sounds. By the way for anyone else wanting to jump in, you need to be careful not just to buy at the lowest price. It's important to either buy from Roli, or to buy from a Roli authorised supplier as otherwise you will not get the full software bundle available. There is a list of authorised suppliers on Roli website. I selected Andertons and got an excellent price very near to best price but of course I got the full software bundle as well (Tracktion 8 etc etc).

The main point of course is the extra dimensions in expressiveness that become available with this keyboard. It is eye-opening and suddenly gives a leap of enjoyment in playing an instrument....

ind3xs
Posts: 4
Joined: 16 Jul 2018

17 Jul 2018

Read about this workaround method from dtaki in another thread: viewtopic.php?t=7502103. Don't own a MPE device yet. Tried the workaround method and tested it on switching midi channels. Unless im overlooking something in the way MPE operates I think it works fine inside of reason..

botnotbot
Posts: 78
Joined: 26 Oct 2017

18 Jul 2018

Ahornberg wrote:
20 May 2018
Foxandxss wrote:
20 May 2018

What is the problem with midi and reason? I am a new Reason user and I didn't know about MIDI implementation issues with it.

PS: I am a seaboard user as well and I would like MPE support.
No MIDI channels inside Reason, so no MPE support.
Reaper, Cubase and Bitwig do a better job here.
Actually, the primary catalyst in my using Reason currently is that Bitwig 2.0 came out with completely botched/useless MIDI channel routing. No channel information is stored in their clips to this day -- it's their primary selling point for 2.4, in fact!

That set off a chain reaction such that I started exploring other DAWs.

Cubase ran like molasses.

Reaper would have appealed to an earlier version of myself who loved running highly customized Linux desktops. I enjoyed using it well enough but every time I came back to the program it felt like I had to re-learn the interface each time.

By the time Reason 9.5 introduced VST support -- signalling to me that Props were planning to take this program to a new level -- I was ready to throw up my hands and just record live audio for all MPE performances, forget the MIDI. So the lack of MPE support in Reason wasn't enough to outweigh how much freaking fun it is.

I expect it to arrive sooner rather than later, but I haven't been in the burned-by-PH-while-waiting-for-a-feature-update camp for any cycles at all yet (I demoed 9.5 and then 10 was out by the time I was sure I would purchase).

JenniferT
Posts: 1
Joined: 06 Jun 2018

19 Jul 2018

Nice, No other roli users?

botnotbot
Posts: 78
Joined: 26 Oct 2017

19 Jul 2018

JenniferT wrote:
19 Jul 2018
Nice, No other roli users?
I guess I didn't mention it but I'm using a Linnstrument.

I get envious sometimes at the length of Y-axis Roli players get to enjoy.

JenniferT, are you using a classic Roli Seaboard Grand or a Rise?

I'd be interested to hear opinions about the difference between the two, as well as between the Roli family and the Linnstrument.

I've got some preconceived notions on what those differences might be but haven't had an opportunity to validate IRL.

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