Full MPE support (Roli users unite!)

Have any feature requests? No promise they'll get to the Props but you can still discuss them here.
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clader
Posts: 5
Joined: 27 Jan 2016

14 May 2016

Would LOVE to see full support for Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression in all native PH instruments and in the SDK.

http://expressiveness.org/2015/04/24/mi ... ession-mpe

I've recently jumped on the Roli Seaboard Rise wagon and would love to take advantage of its full capabilities in Reason.

The synth that ships with the Rise (Equator) would be amazing to have in Reason, but I don't need to get into the vst/au debate here.

There are a good number of instruments/synths outside is Reason which are begining to support this standard (Kontakt, Omnisphere, Pulse to name a few), but support is still far from pervasive.

But I think PH with their proprietary "walled garden" approach to RE's are in a unique position to, with one fell swoop, enable MPE support on all their instruments (and provide an easy path for RE devs to just "switch on" MPE for their instruments.

Just think if PH could make MPE supported/available/easy and got a majority of its RE's supporting it, then Reason could be the go-to DAW for all Roli (or linnstrument or other MPE controller) owners and that would be a huge draw to the userbase.

Just my 2 cents.

clader
Posts: 5
Joined: 27 Jan 2016

16 May 2016

Wow... no other Roli users, not any?

Amyjer
Posts: 32
Joined: 02 Mar 2015

17 May 2016

Roli and LinnStrument user here and I second your request (I sent a feature request directly to Props).


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normen
Posts: 2380
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

17 May 2016

If I get the specs right then theres nothing stopping RE devs from implementing this for their REs right now. The only difference from normal MIDI is that one channel is used per note because MIDI only supports one global pitch bend state per channel. So to use different pitch bends for separate notes you need one channel per note. All the data coming from such controllers is available to REs. This is similar to guitar-to-midi controllers that also use one MIDI channel per string to allow separate pitch bend signals per note.
Professional Audio Engineer, Germany / Part Time Programmer

clader
Posts: 5
Joined: 27 Jan 2016

17 May 2016

normen wrote:If I get the specs right then theres nothing stopping RE devs from implementing this for their REs right now. The only difference from normal MIDI is that one channel is used per note because MIDI only supports one global pitch bend state per channel. So to use different pitch bends for separate notes you need one channel per note. All the data coming from such controllers is available to REs. This is similar to guitar-to-midi controllers that also use one MIDI channel per string to allow separate pitch bend signals per note.
Yep this is exactly correct. All the data is there for RE's now. The only other piece is that the instrument needs to have is a configurable pitch bend range to be configurable to match the PB range being sent from the Roli. Some RE's and native PH instruments have that setting but not all, and many just have a hardcoded PB range, which causes problems with the Roli equipment

Still it would be nice if PH did some of the heavy lifting and provided some sort of "MPE enabled" switch for the SDK so each RE doesn't have to worry about how to handle the multi-channel messages and PB range as well as interpreting some of the other "dimensions" of the Roli CC controls (slide, glide, pressure, release) of which only Glide=PB currently fits into the the controls of most instruments.

Also many instruments still rely solely on the Attack to determine overall (i.e. maximum) volume and then aftertouch is usually expected to control some other parameter instead of volume. Some of the beauty of the Equator synth that ships with Roli is that Attack only determines the initial volume, and then pressure/aftertouch allows for the volume to grow more or less than that initial attack, which is really great for stringed or wind instruments. Thats really hard to do with a basic ADSR envelope setup.

Amyjer
Posts: 32
Joined: 02 Mar 2015

21 May 2016

Could Blamsoft's Distributor RE be used to enable MPE? You could set the pitch bend separately for each voice. This should work in single channel mode since each successive note would routed to a different sound source.


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stereoesque
Posts: 2
Joined: 07 Nov 2016

21 Mar 2017

+1!

apostrophedave
Posts: 10
Joined: 18 Jun 2015

15 May 2017

clader wrote:But I think PH with their proprietary "walled garden" approach to RE's are in a unique position to, with one fell swoop, enable MPE support on all their instruments (and provide an easy path for RE devs to just "switch on" MPE for their instruments.

Just think if PH could make MPE supported/available/easy and got a majority of its RE's supporting it, then Reason could be the go-to DAW for all Roli (or linnstrument or other MPE controller) owners and that would be a huge draw to the userbase.
ive been eyeing up the linnstrument the last while but i like staying inside reason's walled garden and the lack of MPE support would mean i would be paying all that money for something i couldnt really make full use of .

at least there is vst support now so maybe there are some free MPE instruments that could be used, but if propellerheads added MPE support for everything, man that would be so good!

LeoCreer
Posts: 4
Joined: 22 May 2017

22 May 2017

ROLI USER HERE !!! but not just Roli Any VST that Support MPE this should be implemented ASAP! This is very important to my workflow and other studio workflows. Reason need to be cutting edge. VST + MPE support will do that.

LeoCreer
Posts: 4
Joined: 22 May 2017

22 May 2017

+1

Jeff242
Posts: 6
Joined: 05 Jun 2017

05 Jun 2017

I support this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I use reason as my DAW, and I bought a seaboard rise not too long ago. Even though Equator now opens up as a VST in reason with the 9.5 update, it is useless in reason. So for now, because my RME Babyface audio interface has loopback capabilities, I just open Equator as a stand-alone app, then set the Equator audio output to something unused like 'Audio Out 3-4 or ADAT 1-2' as well activate the Seaboard Midi in directly to Equator, then I go to my Babyface Mixer, set the channel 'Audio Out 3-4' to loopback into 'Audio In 3-4', then go to Reason and create an Audio Track and set the input for that track to 'Audio In 3-4' and that it. Then I am free to record a Seaboard controlled Equator in reason. Its just like using external gear in Reason that has no MIDI.
The only problem with this setup is you get no sync and you cannot record the MIDI data since you have to connect the Seaboard directly to Equator stand-alone, you cannot use the External Midi Instrument in reason to control Equator because of no MPE. Before Reason 9.5 in order to get the sound of my VST's into reason, i used a MIDI loopback program (loopbe1 from nerds.de) and a stand-alone VST host like VSTack or Live Professor and just sent the External MIDI Instrument to the host as well as the method for audio as mentioned above, and as far as reason was concerned it connected just like a modern external hardware synth, but again no sync, but at least i could record my playing via MIDI.

The only way to get Equator VST to work in reason properly with sync and all, is if Propellerhead adds MPE Support to Reason. You can have MPE capable VST's and RE's all you want but until Propellerhead builds MPE support into the foundation of Reason's MIDI handling system, it's not going to work right.

I really hate to say this but with Propellerhead's track record with the way they slack on adding features that make reason work with other companies products, I don't think we will be seeing MPE in Reason for a very long time or even ever, there aren't enough of us and they just don't care. Look how long it took to add VST. But We can still try to push them. Everybody reading this please go write propellerhead and also ask the ROLI executives to give Propellerhead a call. Maybe we can make a difference.

apostrophedave
Posts: 10
Joined: 18 Jun 2015

02 Jul 2017

Jeff242 wrote:
05 Jun 2017
I really hate to say this but with Propellerhead's track record with the way they slack on adding features that make reason work with other companies products
they added support for ableton link, you have to give them some credit :D

Jeff242
Posts: 6
Joined: 05 Jun 2017

02 Jul 2017

apostrophedave wrote:
02 Jul 2017
Jeff242 wrote:
05 Jun 2017
I really hate to say this but with Propellerhead's track record with the way they slack on adding features that make reason work with other companies products
they added support for ableton link, you have to give them some credit :D
They added it so you could sync Figure and Take. The code was free and already written.

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Ahornberg
Posts: 892
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

13 Aug 2017

First: I don't own a Seaboard, Linnstrument, MIDI-Guitar or any similar device, so my approach may only work in theory.

By using Remote it should be possible to send each incoming MIDI channel to a seperate track in Reason.
If you put the same instrument/RE on each of these tracks you should get the desired result.
Maybe this approach runs high on CPU, maybe it's not easy to change presets/patches ...

Frankdw
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Feb 2016

18 Aug 2017

Just bought the seaboard block and found out Reason doesn't support after delivery.... strange while pretty much every other DAW does.
Any chance someone from PH reading this and having some feedback on this?
thx
f

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Ahornberg
Posts: 892
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

18 Aug 2017

Frankdw wrote:
18 Aug 2017
Just bought the seaboard block and found out Reason doesn't support after delivery.... strange while pretty much every other DAW does.
Any chance someone from PH reading this and having some feedback on this?
thx
f
Reason is not listed here https://support.roli.com/article/mpe-co ... thesisers/

If you want feedback from PH you should contact PH directly ;)

Fnwiseguy
Posts: 1
Joined: 17 Aug 2017

18 Aug 2017

Please add MPE for ReasonPLEASE!!!!!!!!!! I may have to resort to another Daw if they cant sort this out. Not having to change automation after recording would really help make recording easier. Automation on the fly using the gestures on my Rise 49 would make life soooooo much easier in the reason environment. I hope they are considering adding it!

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Ahornberg
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Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Location: Vienna, Austria
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18 Aug 2017

Adding MPE support is not that easy. In contrast to the actual note lanes, MPE uses different MIDI channels. Some DAWs like Reason and Ableton Live do not store MIDI channels for each note. They simply ignore MIDI channels. See this video to know what it would mean to have MPE support in Reason:



This video does not show or explain how painful it gets to edit recorded MIDI data. For one polyphonic instrument you will end up with several monophonic note tracks.

Here you see how MPE MIDI data look like in Reaper:



Bitwig and Cubase both have better solutions for MPE. And keep in mind that only a fraction of all VSTs actually support MPE.

===========================================

What adding full MPE support in Reason would mean:

All built-in instruments and all RE-instruments have to be adapted to process MIDI data coming from up to 15 different MIDI channels. This means up to 15 different pitch-bend, mod-wheel and all other MIDI-CC data (there are more than 120 possible different data types for each channel).

All players have to be adapted too and the sequencer has to be adapted to give you the ability for editing all that expression data seperately for each note ... and don't forget, all that should be backward compatible to existing Reason songs.

Personally I would like to see MPE support in Reason but I know how hard it is to implement. Maybe there will be more people using the Seabord, the Linnstrument or similar MIDI controllers in the near future to put pressure on PH to implement MPE support ... :?:

JukeTalk
Posts: 1
Joined: 10 Oct 2017

10 Oct 2017

+1 !!!!! Please add MPE for Reason!!!
Linnstrument user here :)

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