CrimsonWarlock's new studio build

[crimsonwarlock]

Also nowadays, the era of listening to music on big expensive hifi systems is gone, most people are consuming music on mobile phones with teeny tiny earphones or headphones, or laptop speakers or bluetooth speakers....very few audiophile types out there who would prefer to listen to your track uncompressed on a proper home system and obsess over sonic quality and the overall mix. Most people are satisfied if it sounds good enough on their earphones.

You are right, if your listener demographic is dance-oriented and below 35 years of age (or something like that). I do mainly symphonic/progressive rock with a touch of eighties glam thrown in for good measure. The people who listen to my music (mainly friends and family members) are definitely listening on speakers in rooms, as I do myself.

Besides that, even if listening on earbuds, you have to make your mix translate correctly. Listening on earbuds is often used as an excuse for sloppy mixes, but a bad mix is still a bad mix, even on earbuds

[visheshl]

Ok accepted a bad mix is a bad mix even on earbuds....and that your listeners mostly use speakers to listen, so you do have a requirement if good room acoustics.


My case, i generally send my music to my younger cousins etc...who listen to it on the phones anyway...whats the point trying to get the lo frequencies just right and clean when their earbuds won't even reproduce the lo end that well...

[RobC]

What kind of microphone stand do you have?

It's one with the additional boom, but it is standing almost straight up. It is also a pretty heavy one, and I suggest going for the heavy stuff as it is much more robust. I have this one for over 25 years now, and it still rock-solid. Good mike stands can be expensive, but it is completely worth it, especially for these larger mikes.

I took another picture for you:


20230308_161303.jpg

Ah, now I can see, thank you!
Also, nice looking booth!

For now, I only could order a somewhat cheaper boom stand, but it was recommended by the music store, since it's good quality build, and a bang-for-the-buck, and apparently very popular. Worth a shot for a first timer, and better than attempting to hang the NT1 with wires, like I originally planned to. x D Would have been depressingly ugly, lol.
Same with a Scarlett Solo 3.

Also, yeah I remember when testing the NT1, just holding it with the shockmount and XLR cable, and pop filter on - it recorded a ton of rumble after 10 minutes, cause my arm started shaking due to the weight. x D

[crimsonwarlock]

Also, nice looking booth!

A very cheap solution. Just a few non-reflective panels (that I made myself) around the mike, being held up by four wooden beams. The surrounding curtains I just had lying around, but they do make it look somewhat like an actual booth

Also, yeah I remember when testing the NT1, just holding it with the shockmount and XLR cable, and pop filter on - it recorded a ton of rumble after 10 minutes, cause my arm started shaking due to the weight. x D

Yeah, having your microphone steady and rumble-free is rather important for a usable recording

[selig]

…So unless your mixes are going to be played at bars or gigs etc with big audio systems, i dont see too much of a point obsessing over the mix.

If it sounds good on an average mobile phone headphones, its ok...i think.

I know selig would be infuriated by this...but it is what i think man

Hell no, I’m not infuriated at all - if it sounds good it IS good. Especially if it sounds good on EVERY average phone etc. - that’s the goal, right, to sound good on every system you’re likely to listen on?

One of the reasons for working hard on a mix and using a full range system is so it WILL sound good on an average mobile phone/headphones etc. That’s the only way I’ve been able to make that happen, fwiw.

[read on to allow me to rant again, didn’t mean to write this much but it’s all related IMO]
But I should point out that mixes have been done on big systems for as long as there have been mixes. And mixes have been listened to on small systems as long as there have been car radios (and later transistors). Which is to say, pretty much since the beginning of mixing.
AM radio and tiny speakers have been around as long as recorded music, but engineers have long known the benefits of mixing while hearing ALL the frequencies. And at the same time, you always check your mix on smaller systems to make sure it will translate (which is the real goal IMO).

One of the big reasons that mixes can sound great on small systems is because they are well balanced. I don’t know any engineers that mix exclusively on phones or ear buds because it’s difficult (and not very fun) to ‘balance’ on tiny systems. I can tell you this, the more fun you have when mixing and the less guessing you’re doing, the better the final result in my experience.
Someone once asked why mix on ‘flat’ systems if no one listens on flat systems, and the answer is similar to why you don’t mix on phone speakers when folks listen on phone speakers. It’s because a flat system is right in the center of ALL possible playback systems, and mixes made on a flat system tend to translate effortlessly to ALL systems. It doesn’t seem to work the other way around, where if you were to mix on a phone it would only sound good on a phone and not on headphones or bigger systems.

Or to put another way, if no system is flat, and you want to mix on a non-flat system, which one do you choose? The one with too much bass, the one with no mids, the one with no highs? Similarly for phones or earbuds, which all sound different - which one do you choose to mix on? Again, mixing on a full range system gives you the best way to know that your mix will translate to EVERY system.

And how can any of us NOT obsess on a mix, for many of us mixing is one of the most fun parts of production. So of course we’re going to obsess, because the results are not just about sonics IMO. It’s also about the FEELING you get when you mix and when you listen. Thats what I’m obsessing about most of the time, and I strongly feel that making a mix that feels great is the best way to ‘serve’ the song and the art of music.

All my mixes done on decent systems have translated very well to smaller systems such as phones and ear buds. But any time I’ve tried to mix on smaller crappier systems the mixes may sound OK on THAT system, but don’t even translate well to other crappy systems (since they’re all different). Bottom line, if you mixes sound great on all systems, that’s all that matters - keep doing whatever you’re doing!

BTW, I’m not an audiophile mixer at ALL, I’m more of a ‘rock-n-roll’ mixer (not the genre, the attitude), meaning I don’t ever obsess over notching resonances or 0.01 dB changes, coming more from the school of “if it sounds good, it IS good”. I’ve always been a musician first, engineer second, and basically became an engineer so I could mix my own music. I’m always gravitating toward the songs that feel good rather than the mixes that sound good…

[crimsonwarlock]

I don’t ever obsess over notching resonances or 0.01 dB changes, coming more from the school of “if it sounds good, it IS good”.

That just about sums up my stance on it as well

[avasopht]

The studio is gorgeous! 🤩

[MuttReason]

I don’t ever obsess over notching resonances or 0.01 dB changes, coming more from the school of “if it sounds good, it IS good”.

That just about sums up my stance on it as well

Yep, same here although in my case it’s because I lack the audio engineering depth of skills required to finesse every tiny aspect of the mix! I have to rely on my ears because apart from the basics like gain staging, HPF/EQ to give different instruments enough space in the spectrum and using comp/limit effectively, really, I’m just a musician playing with audio engineering stuff not an actual proper engineer.

The hardest thing is getting my bass (P bass, Stingray or fretless) to sound right on all different systems. Sometimes I nail it, other times my bass veers between ‘satanic flatulence’ and ‘rubber band on shoebox’ (technical terms, obviously) on smaller speakers despite the usual HPF/low mid boost/saturation/comp sorcery.

Having a rubbish music space from an acoustics perspective doesn’t help (tiny desk in long narrow room with one wall of floor to ceiling glass and no possibility of fitting panels anywhere) although over the years I’ve learned how to aim off that in mixing decisions. Plus I’ve worked on my headphone mixing skills (can’t make noise at night).

So loving this thread BTW, it is great to see it all come together.

[RobC]

Also, nice looking booth!

A very cheap solution. Just a few non-reflective panels (that I made myself) around the mike, being held up by four wooden beams. The surrounding curtains I just had lying around, but they do make it look somewhat like an actual booth

Also, yeah I remember when testing the NT1, just holding it with the shockmount and XLR cable, and pop filter on - it recorded a ton of rumble after 10 minutes, cause my arm started shaking due to the weight. x D

Yeah, having your microphone steady and rumble-free is rather important for a usable recording

It's the quality that matters, not the price! : )

I will just get a shield and call it a day, cause with barely much work, I have some nice dry spots in this room, with little to no (but smooth) room reverb. Maybe a panel or two above my head.

[crimsonwarlock]

The studio is gorgeous! 🤩

Thanks avasopht

So loving this thread BTW, it is great to see it all come together.

The thread turned out the way I hoped it would go. I'm trying to show here that you can get quite a nice room, both acoustically and esthetically, with close to minimal resources (including a far from ideal room to start with). It's great, of course, to have nice/good equipment, but it is the panels and lighting that makes for an inspirational ambiance. I hope other people can take some ideas from my little project here.

It's the quality that matters, not the price! : )

I mentioned cheap to point out that these things don't have to cost an arm and a leg

I will just get a shield and call it a day, cause with barely much work, I have some nice dry spots in this room, with little to no (but smooth) room reverb. Maybe a panel or two above my head.

That is basically my vocal booth

[Voyager]

Except if i missed that part you didn't tell the purpose of the room. Producing, mixing and mastering or both ? Because for mixing/mastering purposes then yes you better try to figure out the best setup and do some measurements as well. But just like Selig said would have been much easier to do before putting other stuff in the way. If for production only you can get away with the pursue of the flatest possible room.

Edit : Once i submitted my message i realized that this post is from early february, though it was a new post, my bad

[crimsonwarlock]

Except if i missed that part you didn't tell the purpose of the room. Producing, mixing and mastering or both ? Because for mixing/mastering purposes then yes you better try to figure out the best setup and do some measurements as well. But just like Selig said would have been much easier to do before putting other stuff in the way. If for production only you can get away with the pursue of the flatest possible room.

I compose, record, mix and (somewhat) master in my studio. Basically, production from start to finish. But, and an important but, I'm not pursuing a professional music career, it is my hobby. I mainly make music for myself, my family and my friends. Having a nice studio with (at least) usable acoustics, makes it all the more enjoyable. As I said elsewhere, I don't obsess about these things, but I do like to have a nice studio for myself

As for the measurements upfront, I explained before in this topic that the size and configuration of the room dictates the only usable positioning of the equipment. So measuring before anything got in would have made no difference to the final result. I didn't do it because it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

So, this is the room I had to work with, and the aim was to get it as good as possible with what I had to work with and with the stuff I had available (like all the acoustic panels, that I made a few years ago). From that starting point, I think it turned out quite well

[Voyager]

So unless your mixes are going to be played at bars or gigs etc with big audio systems, i dont see too much of a point obsessing over the mix.

At bars and gigs most people get drunk anyways so it's certainly not at those places where people are going to judge a mix

[Voyager]

I compose, record, mix and (somewhat) master in my studio. Basically, production from start to finish. But, and an important but, I'm not pursuing a professional music career, it is my hobby. I mainly make music for myself, my family and my friends. Having a nice studio with (at least) usable acoustics, makes it all the more enjoyable. As I said elsewhere, I don't obsess about these things, but I do like to have a nice studio for myself

As for the measurements upfront, I explained before in this topic that the size and configuration of the room dictates the only usable positioning of the equipment. So measuring before anything got in would have made no difference to the final result. I didn't do it because it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

So, this is the room I had to work with, and the aim was to get it as good as possible with what I had to work with and with the stuff I had available (like all the acoustic panels, that I made a few years ago). From that starting point, I think it turned out quite well

Well i think the idea is to measure on different listening positions of an empty room to see where natively the best results occurs and work the acoustic treatment from there. It usualy make things way easier and a life time saver. I've gone through all the pages and i think you made a great job of what was available to you.

Your measurement look great and i think you even could tame that low peak around 100hz by treating those corners in junction between the sidewalls and the floor. The 45 degres angle of the wall certainly accentuate those standing waves in this tight space. It's anyway a space where you can put nothing of good use so some bass traps will found a good home there.

Last but not least what is more important over all is being able to be in a friendly room so to speak where you can feel good and relaxed. It will definitely enhance creativity something that even excellent sounding rooms but uninspiring will not be able to give and inspiration and creativity is the pinnacle element of what we love to do, music.

[crimsonwarlock]

Your measurement look great and i think you even could tame that low peak around 100hz by treating those corners in junction between the sidewalls and the floor. The 45 degres angle of the wall certainly accentuate those standing waves in this tight space. It's anyway a space where you can put nothing of good use so some bass traps will found a good home there.

On one side there is already a fold-up bed (two mattresses on top of each other) so that kind of acts as a bass trap. Strangely enough, the 100 Hz peak is a bit higher on that side. On the other side there is a heating radiator, so no chance of putting a bass trap there. However, the 100 Hz peak is only +3 dB at most, so easily handled by the frequency correction software.

Last but not least what is more important over all is being able to be in a friendly room so to speak where you can feel good and relaxed. It will definitely enhance creativity something that even excellent sounding rooms but uninspiring will not be able to give and inspiration and creativity is the pinnacle element of what we love to do, music.

Agreed. Having an inspirational ambiance is essential. So, that was certainly a major goal with this studio build

[RobC]

Wow, I placed the order on thursday, and they deliver on monday (tops) - and I even paid in advance. I expected today. Way to ruin a weekend. Yet I'm a loyal customer.

I guess that's what we get for buying products with a low price. (I bought expensive stuff from them, too, before.) Now they are the ones being cheap. : P

[crimsonwarlock]

Wow, I placed the order on thursday, and they deliver on monday (tops) - and I even paid in advance. I expected today. Way to ruin a weekend. Yet I'm a loyal customer.

That sucks, the weekends are the best time to break in new equipment. I just grabbed TonicMint's InRange RE. One of the big advantages of the Reason shop system is that you have it immediately, without even having to install things

[RobC]

Wow, I placed the order on thursday, and they deliver on monday (tops) - and I even paid in advance. I expected today. Way to ruin a weekend. Yet I'm a loyal customer.

That sucks, the weekends are the best time to break in new equipment. I just grabbed TonicMint's InRange RE. One of the big advantages of the Reason shop system is that you have it immediately, without even having to install things

Yeah, but I also need to check scratches, scuffs, malfunctioning, damage, etc. We have a 3 day return policy. I think, weekends don't count, so that would have raised it to 5 days.
I'm not too happy knowing that the equipment will be thrown in some filthy humid storage.
I'd prefer to have devices instantly, too. : P

[crimsonwarlock]

Another small update.

I finished setting up the final audio routing inside Reason and through the Scarlett 18i20. I have now monitor output switching inside Reason (using separate outputs) and output one is now not used for monitoring, so if I render the track, my monitor correction is out of the loop. Here's how it looks:

2023-03-12 14_40_11-Window.png