Synth patches with a fifth

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Jagwah
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Post 14 Nov 2022

We have some of these in the Factory Soundbank and the newer Reason Sounds too. A good example is Thor's 'Triangle Fifth' patch. A second oscillator in the patch will be raised seven semi tones to get the 'fifth.' As far as I know this is similar or the same as 'power chords' for guitarists. These sound great on their own, but I am confused as to how to use them musically. Are there certain keys to use with these, or is there a particular way to use them, or is the idea to use keys normally but employ these 'fifth patches' as they just sound good and harmonious?

Cheers!

TritoneAddiction
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Post 14 Nov 2022

I can't speak for how one "should" use them, but on the rare occasions that I've used fifth intervalled patches it's been when I've wanted to add a little boost to a part without really adding much new musical content. Like enchancing the bass/root notes.

Two examples:

If you go from the more stripped down part 0:26 to 0:42 you can hear these long notes in the background adding some "moreness" :lol: .


Same in this track. Compare 0:17 to when the fifth interval patch kicks in at 0:33 to add some moreness to the root notes of the chord progression.

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zoidkirb
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Post 14 Nov 2022

Pentatonic, either major or minor is a very "safe" way to play with those added 5th patches, because you minimise any tones added outside of those scales.

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huggermugger
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Post 14 Nov 2022

Tuning the second oscillator to a P5th is more a timbral thing than a harmony thing. In a sawtooth, triangle, or square wave, the third harmonic is an 8ve plus a P5th above the fundamental pitch. It's already embedded in the timbre. Tuning a second oscillator to a P5th creates a more obvious, audible sound than that (although you can of course adjust its volume as you see fit), but it's essentially just adding an unexpected harmonic to the overall timbre. Just enjoy the sound of it, and use it wherever you like. It's got nothing to do with what key you're in.
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selig
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Post 14 Nov 2022

I’ve used them as chords and as melody. One of the most famous examples is the Roland D50 “Soundtrack” patch (as used by Prince and others).
I used a similar patch on my EPS as melody on my third solo album (on Hearts of Space Records, “Sea of Glass”,


It’s tricky to play as chords but can produce dense and beautiful results.
Selig Audio, LLC

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Jagwah
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Post 16 Nov 2022

TritoneAddiction wrote:
14 Nov 2022
I can't speak for how one "should" use them, but on the rare occasions that I've used fifth intervalled patches it's been when I've wanted to add a little boost to a part without really adding much new musical content. Like enchancing the bass/root notes.
Wow great examples and cool music, love your basslines!

Yes, I really get a sense of it at the times you mentioned. Just like adding lots of root notes to a piece in different ways, it seems the fifth has a similar effect of reinforcing the musical backbone, it also sounds more harmonious, like the bassline in the first track there when the fifth kicks in the bassline sounds warmer and has that 'moreness.' I also get your idea of using them sometimes for that effect, which seems like a perfectly good way to use them, many thanks!!
zoidkirb wrote:
14 Nov 2022
Pentatonic, either major or minor is a very "safe" way to play with those added 5th patches, because you minimise any tones added outside of those scales.
Cool thanks, when I looked in to this I was blown away how raising 7 semitones seems to always stay within the scale of the key! I wonder how those really exotic keys were even worked out to begin with, as these 'safe' keys all seem to use / share the same mathematical equations to find their positions on the pitch register. Thanks again!
huggermugger wrote:
14 Nov 2022
Tuning the second oscillator to a P5th is more a timbral thing than a harmony thing. In a sawtooth, triangle, or square wave, the third harmonic is an 8ve plus a P5th above the fundamental pitch. It's already embedded in the timbre. Tuning a second oscillator to a P5th creates a more obvious, audible sound than that (although you can of course adjust its volume as you see fit), but it's essentially just adding an unexpected harmonic to the overall timbre. Just enjoy the sound of it, and use it wherever you like. It's got nothing to do with what key you're in.
Wow! Thanks for the great explanation. It makes sense that if we are just reinforcing harmonics that are already there we shouldn't be affecting the musicality of the key, just changing the timbre of the notes, and I can relax and just use them without over thinking it, cheers!!
selig wrote:
14 Nov 2022
I’ve used them as chords and as melody. One of the most famous examples is the Roland D50 “Soundtrack” patch (as used by Prince and others).
I used a similar patch on my EPS as melody on my third solo album (on Hearts of Space Records, “Sea of Glass”,


It’s tricky to play as chords but can produce dense and beautiful results.
Cheers Selig, yes I imagine it's hard to use them as chords as this is where I first got confused by them. We could write a melody and use a patch with a fifth and that would work fine, and as others have mentioned it's kind of up to us to decide where and when to use them which is great. Probably comes down to experience just like knowing the feeling of chords. Your music is on another level it always blows me away when I hear it, thanks for chiming in!!

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