Making a Mix using only Fab Filter Vocano3

[Benedict]

This may interest some of you as a look into making a mix.
I am ONLY using Fab Filter Vocano3 for ALL EQ, Saturation & Compression, incl Masters.
It makes for an interesting result.

The first part of video is review stuff so I have set the video to start from the Mix part:

[manisnotabird]

Is there a theoretical difference between using Volcano as an EQ, and just running a clean EQ and saturation plugin in series?

[Benedict]

Without fully understanding how things work under the hood, I can't give a total ironclad answer. BUT...

There is a difference in what is happening:
The real joy in this approach is that each of the filters used in Volcano3 brings a bit of saturation so you are not working with 1x EQ into 1x Saturation but 4x Saturation affected by the EQ (filter) curves (and compression movement). This gives a more complex "curve" to the overall result as the actions compound. Which is either a mungy signal or a vibrant one. The line can be very thin and what seems vibey in solo can result in mud when in a mix.

In no way am I suggesting that to make remotely passable, let alone great, mixes one needs to run out and buy V3 (I am not), It was just an interesting approach to making a mix and showed in a less cliche way what Volcano3 is/does (seeing this is a review).

In practical terms, a smidge of any kind of drive or "signal non-linearity" in a few places is normally plenty to help any mix work very nicely. Also if you saturate and then EQ you will have a slightly different result than if you EQ then saturate. I often saturate last so things like drums (esp samples) that can be too brittle or fizzy) can have a roll off on the highs and a bit of Tube Scream to make something nicer to suit the needs of the mix.

[crimsonwarlock]

...you are not working with 1x EQ into 1x Saturation but 4x Saturation affected by the EQ (filter) curves (and compression movement).

Any idea how this compares to Selig's Coloring EQ, which also has separate drive for each band. I'm eying Coloring EQ for that specific ability.

[Ahornberg]

Reminds me on Selig Coloring EQ

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... oloringeq/

[Benedict]

Aah Selig's ColoringEQ:

Despite what clearly everyone (incl me) thinks, these are not exactly the same sort of thing. Happy for Selig to advise with his insider knowledge.

C-EQ separates each band (like a multiband compressor) and therefore each EQ band has separate saturation - leaving the other bands unaffected by that band's Saturation. The bands are reassembled at output with no interplay. V3 does that if you use all four bands in Parallel.

If there is any Serial usage, V3 applies the saturation in Filter #1 and then feeds the results to Filter #2 which adds its saturation to the newly roughed up sound. This leads to a multiplication of the aggravation of the assemblage of assault. Or simply put drive gets driven again for a sound that is even more non-linear. Similar in concept to FM synthesis where you FM OSC 2 which is FMing OSC 1 to get a skritchier sound than just FMing OSC 2>1.

Which is "better" I cannot say. There is different functionality in each. V3 is mostly a Filter set that can play at EQ and even Compression. Co-EQ is an EQ with a more direct EQ set. Being an RE, C-EQ is a bit more immediate in the Rack than a VST. Both can be set up to "surf" with the notes. And each seems to deliver nice results if that is what you want to do.

[crimsonwarlock]

If there is any Serial usage, V3 applies the saturation in Filter #1 and then feeds the results to Filter #2 which adds its saturation to the newly roughed up sound.

So basically, stacking four single-band parametric EQs with saturation in a combinator does the exact same thing. Or am I still missing something.

Also, from your explanation, Selig can implement serial routing of bands inside ColEQ and have the same functionality (if that is what it takes).



Sidenote: I think I know what my next combinator project will be

[Benedict]

Now you're gettin' why I don't see the need to buy 78 trillion VST (esp the ones that pretend to be A.I.)

Yes, a series of Sweepers set as Filters (each with that dandy Drive knob) will effectively deliver some of the same sort of result.
Except Sweeper doesn't have a Bell shape.

However also understand that to be fair Fab Filter, Selig etc all have their secret sauce for what their Drive Algos do
(or at least hopefully they do as we don't really need another thousand Gorilla Engine REs).

Combi II is indeed a very nice way of taking things learned elsewhere and making your own spin. This is exactly what the Double Tape Delay is doing: fancy VST, understand the architecture, lay it out in a Combi II, and skin it. You have a unique device that no one else need own.

[selig]

If there is any Serial usage, V3 applies the saturation in Filter #1 and then feeds the results to Filter #2 which adds its saturation to the newly roughed up sound.

So basically, stacking four single-band parametric EQs with saturation in a combinator does the exact same thing. Or am I still missing something.

Also, from your explanation, Selig can implement serial routing of bands inside ColEQ and have the same functionality (if that is what it takes).



Sidenote: I think I know what my next combinator project will be

(sorry in advance for the thread detour!)
Hey, Selig here. No that's not the same thing. You would have to subtract each EQ from the input, saturate THAT signal and sum the results with the saturated results of the other three EQs. Unlike other EQs with saturation, I'm neither saturating then EQing nor EQing followed by saturation. It's more like a multi band saturator, but with FAR more flexibility in that you can narrow the saturation down to almost a single frequency due to CEQs exceptionally narrow band settings. I should also point out the solo logic (which is fairly complex) is pretty helpful when operating the device, but would be quite a task to re-create in a Combinator - not to mention the routing/switching logic for the separate band ins/out which required quite a bit of work to get right.
I actually built a single band combinator with this effect years ago to test it's viability - this was before I could use Reaktor in Reason and do the same (but better). The combinator approach was far from CPU efficient!

Side note, I initially tried serial saturation, but it got very messy very quickly - I actually couldn't find any useful applications for this routing. But I also provided individual outputs for each EQ including saturation, so in theory you could build a Combaintor with serial saturation. BTW, these ins/outs also allows building parallel EQs like Kush Audio and the "air band" from Maag (check the included Combinator patches for some examples).

[crimsonwarlock]

sorry in advance for the thread detour!

No excuse needed, this was exactly what I was steering at

CEQ is on my wishlist for a while now. Just don't need it desperately enough to buy it already (that stupid thing where you can spend money only once irks me a lot ).

So, thanks for the clarification. I'm still going to try what a combinator can do here. Like a nice follow-up to the three-band overdrive I did a few weeks ago. It's pretty obvious that native rack extensions will always be much more efficient than stacks of stuff inside a combi.

I like your stuff a lot. Already own several of your REs (specifically the vocal stuff).

[Benedict]

Hi Selig happy to have you here discussing the gizzards of your gizmo.

If I had to choose V3 or C-EQ, I would be tempted by the wheeee!-fulness of V3 and compression options but probably get C-EQ for better integration with Reason, its ability to saturate per band (pointy as you say) and a more overall focused usability as V3 can get messy with all that wheee!-fulness. That and C-EQ is better priced.

Combis are great but don't always compete with a well-designed and integrated Kush Audio (or Selig) plugin, but the new Combi II with a good interface goes a fair way. At least far enough to do the main job - or do the job long enough to decide if the investment in the fancy-pants Pro-VST is warranted for the extra workflow it brings (as noted in trialing the concept in a Combi then Pandaizing or Reaktorizing).