Old school sampling with lower bandwidths

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Jagwah
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Post 10 Apr 2021

Been having some discussions about sampling lately and saw in this video where this guy talks about how sampling things at lower than usual bandwidths can be beneficial. I don't understand it that well, but I am wondering if there is any way to do this in Reason or with certain VSTs? I think there may be some workarounds like using distortion and other things but I am more interested in the actual process and if it can be done in Reason, or is hardware needed?

The video will play from where he is discussing this.




Cheers!

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Billy+
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Post 10 Apr 2021

Well old school sampling had not much choice, it just happened due to the hardware limitations.

You can take high bit depth samples and resamaple them using bit crushers to get similar effects.

My favourite is ReSampler


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bxbrkrz
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Post 10 Apr 2021

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Jackjackdaw
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Post 10 Apr 2021

I resample through Decimort to get the old school sampler sound. It makes a difference sampling the through the bit crusher rather than putting it on as an insert. As an insert you get digital artifacts as the amplitude rolls off whereas if you sample it you get the crushed sound but with nice tidy envelopes on it.

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dioxide
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Post 10 Apr 2021

I second the recommendation for the RX950. I have Decimort also and most of the presets are too harsh but there are some MPC60 style setting which are more usable.

Watching this at the moment, as I'm a massive nerd ha ha.

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BRIGGS
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Post 10 Apr 2021

+1 Decimort

I've used scream 4 previously, but there's no dry mix on the scream.

Decimort sounds better/worser, and checks all the boxes.
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selig
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Post 11 Apr 2021

That video discusses only sample rate changes, which means using a lower frequency on a low pass filter (filtering has to be lowered with lower sample rates). This happens automatically as you change sample rate. Note that bit rate does NOT change in this example, so using a bit crusher won't give the same results unless you're trying to emulate a 12 bit sampler such as the Akai.

Typically, reducing sample rate was done to increase sample TIME, e.g. to record longer samples. It was a necessary trade off, and not usually done explicitly to get a "lo fi" sound any more than recording on crappy machines was done to get a lo fi sound - it was done because it was the only option available at the time! ;)

If you're going for that "Akai" sound, I "second" bxbrkrz suggestion (above) for this RE:
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... converter/

But you can also get similar results with Pulveriser or most any LP filter. None of these solutions will impart the old interpolation to the samples as you move away from the original sample pitch, which was another part of that glorious sound!

[my first ever sampler was a CMI (at work, 1984), but my first personal sampler was an Akai S900 - still have fond memories of those early machines, and also remember the frustration in being stuck with the "sound". It wasn't until years later I realized how cool those artifacts actually were…]
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Loque
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Post 11 Apr 2021

BRIGGS wrote:
10 Apr 2021
+1 Decimort

I've used scream 4 previously, but there's no dry mix on the scream.

Decimort sounds better/worser, and checks all the boxes.
I wish that digital thing j km Scream4 would sound better. Dunno what they have done to it, but it sounds worse than just a resolution resampler would sound.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

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BRIGGS
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Post 11 Apr 2021

Loque wrote:
11 Apr 2021
BRIGGS wrote:
10 Apr 2021
+1 Decimort

I've used scream 4 previously, but there's no dry mix on the scream.

Decimort sounds better/worser, and checks all the boxes.
I wish that digital thing j km Scream4 would sound better. Dunno what they have done to it, but it sounds worse than just a resolution resampler would sound.
My guess is, it's a cpu efficiency thing. On the other hand, it does the gritty digital distortion thing well, and has plenty of gain.
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Karim
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Post 12 Apr 2021

immagine_2021-04-12_143645.png

Let's remember that by turning the dr rex rack it is possible to give a touch of lowbandwidth with a single key to our loops ;)
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Jagwah
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Post 13 Apr 2021

Thanks for the great discussion everyone, geeking out over this stuff it's really cool and I'm glad we have a decent RE solution.

I think I will always want a hardware sampler so if ever I can manage it I will try and get one.

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stillifegaijin
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Post 14 Apr 2021

I sold my old Emax and I don't miss it in the slightest because Decimort is so much easier to use, more reliable, and more versatile. All the sound, none of the headache...and no piles of of disks in the corner!

https://d16.pl/decimort2

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Jagwah
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Post 14 Apr 2021

stillifegaijin wrote:
14 Apr 2021
I sold my old Emax and I don't miss it in the slightest because Decimort is so much easier to use, more reliable, and more versatile. All the sound, none of the headache...and no piles of of disks in the corner!

https://d16.pl/decimort2
From the videos I watched those old disk drives are mostly worn out, guess I should really consider my options here, cheers.

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Re8et
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Post 17 Apr 2021

Karim wrote:
12 Apr 2021
immagine_2021-04-12_143645.png
Let's remember that by turning the dr rex rack it is possible to give a touch of lowbandwidth with a single key to our loops ;)
Small secrets... :thumbs_up:
I'd for an eye'd always thought that was about low boost... :redface:

plaingraywall
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Joined: 12 Apr 2021

Post 19 Apr 2021

In my experience, with judicious use of EQ and saturation, it's not difficult to recreate the warmth of these old digital boxes without the need to actually throw good bits and khz away in 2021...

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Jackjackdaw
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Post 19 Apr 2021

plaingraywall wrote:
19 Apr 2021
In my experience, with judicious use of EQ and saturation, it's not difficult to recreate the warmth of these old digital boxes without the need to actually throw good bits and khz away in 2021...
Lol, That's like saying 'why use that distortion pedal when I can add some eq to the clean channel?'

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selig
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Post 19 Apr 2021

Jackjackdaw wrote:
19 Apr 2021
plaingraywall wrote:
19 Apr 2021
In my experience, with judicious use of EQ and saturation, it's not difficult to recreate the warmth of these old digital boxes without the need to actually throw good bits and khz away in 2021...
Lol, That's like saying 'why use that distortion pedal when I can add some eq to the clean channel?'
I don’t get the comparison - low sample rates affect frequency response, equivalent to filtering the sound (a filter is actually involved). So using one digital filter to emulate the effect of using another digital filter is totally logical IMO, while using an EQ to emulate a distortion effect makes no sense to me.

And to the “throwing kHz away” comment, well that’s actually another way to describe adding a LP filter to a signal - you are literally throwing kHz away! 🤓
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plaingraywall
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Joined: 12 Apr 2021

Post 19 Apr 2021

selig wrote:
19 Apr 2021
Jackjackdaw wrote:
19 Apr 2021


Lol, That's like saying 'why use that distortion pedal when I can add some eq to the clean channel?'
I don’t get the comparison - low sample rates affect frequency response, equivalent to filtering the sound (a filter is actually involved). So using one digital filter to emulate the effect of using another digital filter is totally logical IMO, while using an EQ to emulate a distortion effect makes no sense to me.

And to the “throwing kHz away” comment, well that’s actually another way to describe adding a LP filter to a signal - you are literally throwing kHz away! 🤓
Yes, throwing kHz away is the best way to achieve these lo-fi sounds - exactly what an EQ can do! A very similar effect to the low bit-rate part can be achieved with saturation/very light distortion. Not sure what Jackjackdaw was getting at :)

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Jackjackdaw
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Post 19 Apr 2021

The bit crushed sound is a sound of it's own. It fizzes and whines. You can't eq it into being. The comparison is that a distortion pedal is effectively an unwanted blight upon the signal as is the bit crusher but it doesn't mean it doesn't sound good.

plaingraywall
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Joined: 12 Apr 2021

Post 20 Apr 2021

Jackjackdaw wrote:
19 Apr 2021
The bit crushed sound is a sound of its own. It fizzes and whines. You can't eq it into being. The comparison is that a distortion pedal is effectively an unwanted blight upon the signal as is the bit crusher but it doesn't mean it doesn't sound good.
It is a sound of its own. True. But its sound can be emulated somewhat by saturation/light distortion. It's the sample-rate destruction that can be emulated with EQ, as I said earlier; literally throwing kHz away to emulate those older low sample-rate samplers. Using a LPF EQ + some light Softube saturation, for example, isn't really all that dissimilar to the subtle warmth that old school samplers impart with their 12-bit 16khz sound; especially once everything is in the context of a dense mix.

If you need the exact sound of an AKAI, then following the guide here makes sense: https://www.attackmagazine.com/techniqu ... amplers/2/

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