Reverb after Haas, or before?

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chaosroyale
Posts: 717
Joined: 05 Sep 2017

Post 11 May 2021

Izotope Imager for free is a must-get. Essential.

that RE..hmm..I had never seen it before! My instinct is that strictly as a mix tool for mono recordings, it certainly sounds pretty good, but I think you could get 80% of the way pretty quickly with careful use of room ambience reverbs inserted on each instrument. I would be very interested to see exactly what techniques they are using, especially if they are preserving phase and mono compatibility.

Seems like they stopped making REs in 2015, maybe they are not active any more?
integerpoet wrote:
11 May 2021
It's better than that now; it's free — or anyway for the price of your email address and dealing with Izotope Product Portal. :-) I have to agree that it seems like magic. It's one of the few VSTs I am tempted to use in real projects. If you love this VST, I wonder what you think of ReStereo, which I have considered on and off for years and should probably trial because I do prefer pure RE projects. When I first saw (heard) the demo video, I thought of it similar magical things but had no need of it at the time.

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integerpoet
Posts: 266
Joined: 30 Dec 2020
Location: East Bay, California

Post 11 May 2021

chaosroyale wrote:
11 May 2021
Izotope Imager for free is a must-get. Essential.

that RE..hmm..I had never seen it before! My instinct is that strictly as a mix tool for mono recordings, it certainly sounds pretty good, but I think you could get 80% of the way pretty quickly with careful use of room ambience reverbs inserted on each instrument. I would be very interested to see exactly what techniques they are using, especially if they are preserving phase and mono compatibility.
Indeed it seems the main thrust of Imager is adjusting the width of a signal which is already stereo, but it also has two different ways to stereo-ize a mono signal and then mess with its width. This second part is what I thought might be interesting to compare and contrast with ReStereo.

As far as "you could get 80% of the way pretty quickly with careful use of room ambience reverbs", that sounds too much like work for an 80% solution :-), but I certainly agree that solving an actual problem is more important than applying a particular solution.

chaosroyale
Posts: 717
Joined: 05 Sep 2017

Post 11 May 2021

when I say pretty quickly, I mean as part of standard mixing techniques with the various verbs you would already have on hand, just a few seconds, probably as quick or quicker than loading in a new plugin and setting it up!

I am not sure this RE would work at all on actual stereo signals because -if I am reading it correctly - it is based on modeling the delays and reflections from a single source at a point in a space, not a whole bunch of sources in all kinds of locations around a space. Likewise the demos all showed it being used one instance per sound source, but I didn't spend a lot of time on it or look at the manual or anything, so I could be wrong.
integerpoet wrote:
11 May 2021
chaosroyale wrote:
11 May 2021
Izotope Imager for free is a must-get. Essential.

that RE..hmm..I had never seen it before! My instinct is that strictly as a mix tool for mono recordings, it certainly sounds pretty good, but I think you could get 80% of the way pretty quickly with careful use of room ambience reverbs inserted on each instrument. I would be very interested to see exactly what techniques they are using, especially if they are preserving phase and mono compatibility.
Indeed it seems the main thrust of Imager is adjusting the width of a signal which is already stereo, but it also has two different ways to stereo-ize a mono signal and then mess with its width. This second part is what I thought might be interesting to compare and contrast with ReStereo.

As far as "you could get 80% of the way pretty quickly with careful use of room ambience reverbs", that sounds too much like work for an 80% solution :-), but I certainly agree that solving an actual problem is more important than applying a particular solution.

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mcatalao
Posts: 1521
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 17 Jun 2021

deeplink wrote:
24 Mar 2021

Some background, the reason why I'm asking is basically because in other tracks, the reverb I hear somehow sound wider and almost more natural.

RV7000 and RV7 simply don't sound like it. However I feel like I get closer to it when I use a Haas effect on the reverb or visa versa.

Maybe there's something else I haven't considered?
First and foremost, HAAS sucks balls. I hate the sound of the effect and prefer a stereo enhancer like Izotope's imager, which in the new ozone 9 is simply brilliant.

Anyway... Sorry for reviving such a post but when you say reverb on other tracks sound wider and more natural this can be related to a lot of different variables, not only considering algorithm type or convolution source as simply cleaning the reverb tail with an EQ (before or after the reverb, though if you're using the reverb in an insert you want to only eq the wet part for that to be true), adding pre-delay to clearly separate the reverbs from the source, and have a couple of distinct reverbs for some instruments/vocals to add flair.

Anyway, for a controlled stereo reverb with Cross feed control in Reason you might want to try out Fiedler Audio AD 480, with i think is the only one with cross feed and cross feed delay control.

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