RRP CC Out in Ableton

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Sterioevo
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Post 22 Mar 2021

It appears this capability has been hidden beneath the surface the whole time...

The process is basically the same as for getting note information out.

It requires Max for Live to expose the midi controllers for use in Ableton, it is also possible to send cc's externally.





PhillipOrdonez
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Post 22 Mar 2021

Brilliant! Now, could you please explain the workflow. How are things wired on the RRP? What is the max device we need? 🤗
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Sterioevo
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Post 23 Mar 2021

Create RRP in a Midi Track.
Add a Midi Out Device.
Send a CV signal into CV 1 on the Midi Out input on the back.
Set the desired CC channel.
At this point the RRP should be sending a CC signal (just not exposed and available in Live yet...).

Create another Midi Track.
Select the Reason Rack plugin in the 2 "Midi From" drop down boxes in the tracks channel strip, and then activate the aqua monitor In button.
You can then add the Max Midi Monitor device and it should show midi messages in the flow view.
Add this device - https://maxforlive.com/library/device/7 ... pper-small, match the CC number setting to the CC you are sending out of RRP and then map as required to a parameter in Ableton.

Repeat as required.



This is a larger version of the CC mapper - https://maxforlive.com/library/device/7 ... pper-large.

It is relatively easy to roll your own M4L mapper. I have made a few for some of the outboard gear I have.

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w1pl0c
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Post 23 Mar 2021

this might help too:

Sterioevo
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Post 23 Mar 2021

w1pl0c wrote:
23 Mar 2021
this might help too:
Yes and it did help, it was the catalyst for my brain to tick over and think what if?.... this and some recent explorations into m4l... Thanks

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w1pl0c
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Post 23 Mar 2021

lol i should have looked at your username before posting that again, sorry for being redundant. I like your method though! I was having CC trouble as well, my favorite max device for that is this....

https://maxforlive.com/library/device/446/cc-sender-16

and this for program/bank changes...

https://maxforlive.com/library/device/6 ... -revisited

What im getting stumped with is I would love to be able to apply CV curves to automation lanes. Drag and drop? CV live record? The idea is to sequence CV in a more arrangement friendly manner. Anyways, Cheers!

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 23 Mar 2021

Thank you, Sterioevo. I'm trying this right now.
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PhillipOrdonez
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Post 23 Mar 2021

It works a treat.

You can program several signals with a single instance of midi out device and several LFOs or CV producing devices. I might look into getting more into CV tools now that I can use them in live. And mapping using that m4l device is super easy, love it.

Very very nice, guys!
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w1pl0c
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Post 24 Mar 2021

tonicmint cv tools are my new thing

Sterioevo
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Post 24 Mar 2021

w1pl0c wrote:
23 Mar 2021
What im getting stumped with is I would love to be able to apply CV curves to automation lanes. Drag and drop? CV live record? The idea is to sequence CV in a more arrangement friendly manner. Anyways, Cheers!
I have always found the automation drawing tools in Ableton effective - which includes a range of basic shapes with bezier curving. It is possible to record lfo automation and then tweak as required. You can also modulate (linked or unlinked looped lengths) on top of automation for non-destructive variations. This can be recorded into the arrangement or clips in session view. Perhaps I don't completely understand the issue?

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 24 Mar 2021

w1pl0c wrote:
24 Mar 2021
tonicmint cv tools are my new thing
Mine too, holy shit are they useful in live!!!
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PhillipOrdonez
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Location: Colombia

Post 24 Mar 2021

Only thing I'm not liking is that I'm losing the ability to undo in live while playing with this, maybe it is a thing with the cc mapper?

I'm fine with it though, just wish wasn't so 🤷‍♂️
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Billy+
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Post 24 Mar 2021

You guys seem to know what you're doing so I got a question.

I use devices like Ammo100 to modulate velocities decay cutoff etc inside Reason standalone but I'm looking at moving to Ableton, will I require M4L?

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w1pl0c
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Post 24 Mar 2021

Sterioevo wrote:
24 Mar 2021
w1pl0c wrote:
23 Mar 2021
What im getting stumped with is I would love to be able to apply CV curves to automation lanes. Drag and drop? CV live record? The idea is to sequence CV in a more arrangement friendly manner. Anyways, Cheers!
I have always found the automation drawing tools in Ableton effective - which includes a range of basic shapes with bezier curving. It is possible to record lfo automation and then tweak as required. You can also modulate (linked or unlinked looped lengths) on top of automation for non-destructive variations. This can be recorded into the arrangement or clips in session view. Perhaps I don't completely understand the issue?
Oh nice, you have any tuts for how to record cv into Live? Mapped knobs lose the ability to have automation drawn in. I guess the workaround I am looking for would be to create a bounced cv signal that i can tweak in arrangement.

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w1pl0c
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Post 24 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
24 Mar 2021
You guys seem to know what you're doing so I got a question.

I use devices like Ammo100 to modulate velocities decay cutoff etc inside Reason standalone but I'm looking at moving to Ableton, will I require M4L?
to modulate ableton sources yes. This is what you should use to get cv from the reason rack plugin into live. check the vids above too.


PhillipOrdonez
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Post 24 Mar 2021

Live suite includes Max for live. I dont think standard does but I might be mistaken.
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Billy+
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Post 24 Mar 2021

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
24 Mar 2021
Live suite includes Max for live. I dont think standard does but I might be mistaken.
You are correct

It can be purchased separately as well.

Sterioevo
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Post 24 Mar 2021

w1pl0c wrote:
24 Mar 2021

Oh nice, you have any tuts for how to record cv into Live? Mapped knobs lose the ability to have automation drawn in. I guess the workaround I am looking for would be to create a bounced cv signal that i can tweak in arrangement.
Here is a basic recording of CV into the arrangement view. The setup is similar to the video previously in this thread. When you right click on the assigned parameter it shows the automation lane with the red dashed line (the default value) changing, then it is a matter of activating record on the track and in the transport. You will need to deactivate the lfo source after recording as it overrides the automation in the lane. You then have access to all the usual editing tools.

I will do another one up for session view when I get a chance as it is slightly different.


Sterioevo
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Post 24 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
24 Mar 2021
You guys seem to know what you're doing so I got a question.

I use devices like Ammo100 to modulate velocities decay cutoff etc inside Reason standalone but I'm looking at moving to Ableton, will I require M4L?
You can still use CV as accessed on the back of the rack within a single instance of RRP. What you cannot do is interact outside of this instance of the RRP without m4l, beyond basic midi note information that is. So it is possible to send/record velocity (also gate/note) information out of the RRP without m4l.

My advice would be to have a good look around https://maxforlive.com to get a sense of what is possible/available. https://isotonikstudios.com will give you an idea of some of the commercial Max 4 Live products out there.

Personally I would be looking at Suite as the product offering goes beyond Max alone.

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Billy+
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Post 24 Mar 2021

So if I send midi from Live into an instances of RRP and I'm using an LFO to modulate a Player that is modifying say velocity on a range of notes - can I get the modified midi data back into Lives sequencer?

PhillipOrdonez
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Location: Colombia

Post 24 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
24 Mar 2021
So if I send midi from Live into an instances of RRP and I'm using an LFO to modulate a Player that is modifying say velocity on a range of notes - can I get the modified midi data back into Lives sequencer?
Yes
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Billy+
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Post 24 Mar 2021

So I use these devices to modify incoming midi and bounce out the modified data inside reason standalone

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... -modifier/
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... scillator/

A simple example would be to take ammo into cv1 on a combinator then program the combinator cv1 to modify the velocity value on utl.

Pick a nice LFO signal and time play with the lag phase and depth set the filter to a single note that's triggering a hat sample in Kong and the results would give a less static hat pattern.

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zoidkirb
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Post 24 Mar 2021

For simple LFO's it's better to use the built in ones in Live.
Yes Live 11 standard has them now without the need for Max.

Sterioevo
Posts: 334
Joined: 02 Apr 2015

Post 24 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
24 Mar 2021
So I use these devices to modify incoming midi and bounce out the modified data inside reason standalone

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... -modifier/
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... scillator/

A simple example would be to take ammo into cv1 on a combinator then program the combinator cv1 to modify the velocity value on utl.

Pick a nice LFO signal and time play with the lag phase and depth set the filter to a single note that's triggering a hat sample in Kong and the results would give a less static hat pattern.
Midi Notes are passed through the the Midi Out instrument - via the cv inputs, as part of a player stack or in a combinator. So whatever is fed to the Midi Out device will be passed on for use in Ableton, with velocity level and length part of the gate signal.

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w1pl0c
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Post 25 Mar 2021

Sterioevo wrote:
24 Mar 2021
w1pl0c wrote:
24 Mar 2021

Oh nice, you have any tuts for how to record cv into Live? Mapped knobs lose the ability to have automation drawn in. I guess the workaround I am looking for would be to create a bounced cv signal that i can tweak in arrangement.
Here is a basic recording of CV into the arrangement view. The setup is similar to the video previously in this thread. When you right click on the assigned parameter it shows the automation lane with the red dashed line (the default value) changing, then it is a matter of activating record on the track and in the transport. You will need to deactivate the lfo source after recording as it overrides the automation in the lane. You then have access to all the usual editing tools.

I will do another one up for session view when I get a chance as it is slightly different.

Nice this is a new skill for me to practice! Much appreciated!

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