Mono to Poly with Stock devices ?

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NDKay
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Post 20 Jun 2020

Hello fellas,

i would like to understand how to chain some mono synths to get a polysynth.
Especially how to programm the combinator to get the first key ( of a chord) adressing the first synth, the second key adressing the second synth while reseting on the way when no key is pressed and so on... I hope you can follow me.

I know there is the "Distributor" RE which is made exactly for that matter.

But trying to go without that i got to the point of asking myself "is it even possible with stock devices" ?
And yeah, i get the point that it is a bit dumb to ask when i know there is the Distributor ;-), you could say its for the education-matter ! :lol:
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Loque
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Post 20 Jun 2020

gl....
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

NDKay
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Post 20 Jun 2020

Loque wrote:
20 Jun 2020
gl....
excuse me, i did not get that "acoustically", would you be so kind and repeat yourself ? ;-)
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QVprod
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Post 20 Jun 2020

Distributor is the only way.

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Loque
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Post 20 Jun 2020

NDKay wrote:
20 Jun 2020
Loque wrote:
20 Jun 2020
gl....
excuse me, i did not get that "acoustically", would you be so kind and repeat yourself ? ;-)
Good Luck...
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

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ljekio
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Post 20 Jun 2020

CVPT player from Lectric Panda.
A-Series 2 Modular Synth
Some of control devices from Hamu.

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Murf
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Post 20 Jun 2020

Not stock but all free, Poohbear has built a monster poly synth from mono modules here


NDKay
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Post 20 Jun 2020

Damn, thats really a monster ! Even Poohbear mentioning it could get DSP heavy. :lol:

so the Distributor is the way to go ! alone for perfomance matters XD
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Sterioevo
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Post 21 Jun 2020

You could use Thors step sequencer curve CV's as an array, and use this with the combinator's receive notes parameter.

DaveyG
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Post 21 Jun 2020

Or you could just, you know, use a polyphonic synth. Lord knows we have enough of them at our fingertips.

Sterioevo
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Post 21 Jun 2020

The round robin type of approach is often used with multiple synths to provide the polyphony and variations in sound. The result is similar in a sense to modulated program changes in the hardware world.

NDKay
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Post 21 Jun 2020

Sterioevo wrote:
21 Jun 2020
You could use Thors step sequencer curve CV's as an array, and use this with the combinator's receive notes parameter.
do you mean for "splitting" the incoming midi ? could you please go a bit more in detail ?

in poohbears Video Series is another video which explains the distributor and the possibility of HAMUs ModPanel8 to use the roundrobin method :



(maybe i go and try to build a "simpler" monopoly-chain with the ModPanel8)

btw: i downloaded the patches from poohbear..... the first gives me 4 DSP bars, the second goes Full Red DSP ( both without even making a sound :lol:)
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NDKay
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Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: Suite 11

Post 21 Jun 2020

Loque wrote:
20 Jun 2020
NDKay wrote:
20 Jun 2020


excuse me, i did not get that "acoustically", would you be so kind and repeat yourself ? ;-)
Good Luck...
I dont know if you are interested, but i got a "MonoTonePoly" ;-) Patch in a Combi with the help of HAMUs ModPanel8. (Yeah, not stock :( , but its the only non-stock device in the combi)
8 slightly changed Monotones as 8 Voice Polyphonic Synth. And after adding a scales and chords i was suprised myself how "good" it sounds.

it sounds better when the midi notes slightly overlap. Or better it sounds less static if i may say so.
As far as i´ve gone Distributor still has some advantages over the Modpanel8 for that matter, BUT like the name suggests - the ModPanel8 does it more "by the way" and can many other things the distributor cant.

If someone other has interest let me know ;-)
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Loque
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Post 22 Jun 2020

NDKay wrote:
21 Jun 2020
Loque wrote:
20 Jun 2020

Good Luck...
I dont know if you are interested, but i got a "MonoTonePoly" ;-) Patch in a Combi with the help of HAMUs ModPanel8. (Yeah, not stock :( , but its the only non-stock device in the combi)
8 slightly changed Monotones as 8 Voice Polyphonic Synth. And after adding a scales and chords i was suprised myself how "good" it sounds.

it sounds better when the midi notes slightly overlap. Or better it sounds less static if i may say so.
As far as i´ve gone Distributor still has some advantages over the Modpanel8 for that matter, BUT like the name suggests - the ModPanel8 does it more "by the way" and can many other things the distributor cant.

If someone other has interest let me know ;-)
Yea, sure i am interested.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

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moneykube
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Post 22 Jun 2020

yes please

Sterioevo
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Post 22 Jun 2020

NDKay wrote:
21 Jun 2020
Sterioevo wrote:
21 Jun 2020
You could use Thors step sequencer curve CV's as an array, and use this with the combinator's receive notes parameter.
do you mean for "splitting" the incoming midi ? could you please go a bit more in detail ?

in poohbears Video Series is another video which explains the distributor and the possibility of HAMUs ModPanel8 to use the roundrobin method

Sort of splits I guess, more like diverts midi to the active device (or devices) as selected by the Thor CV curves. See attached combinator for a simple 4 voice example.

I haven't had a chance to check the videos as yet.
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NDKay
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Location: Suite 11

Post 22 Jun 2020

Sterioevo wrote:
22 Jun 2020
NDKay wrote:
21 Jun 2020


do you mean for "splitting" the incoming midi ? could you please go a bit more in detail ?

in poohbears Video Series is another video which explains the distributor and the possibility of HAMUs ModPanel8 to use the roundrobin method

Sort of splits I guess, more like diverts midi to the active device (or devices) as selected by the Thor CV curves. See attached combinator for a simple 4 voice example.

I haven't had a chance to check the videos as yet.
thanks, i definitely will check that out !

___________

And here´s the MonoTonePoly Combinator. ( be patient with Volume - gets Hot damn fast)
Its called 2 because of "publishing" matters i mapped the Combi controls to something ;-)

Like already said, you will need HAMUs "ModPanel8 CV Control" RE, which is free. Lets take a look if Sterioevos tip will help me to stay reason native.

Have fun and enjoy

edit: re upload with my signature added -ND (for the first time....ahhh) :mrgreen:
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Last edited by NDKay on 22 Jun 2020, edited 2 times in total.
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NDKay
Posts: 279
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: Suite 11

Post 22 Jun 2020

Sterioevo wrote:
22 Jun 2020
NDKay wrote:
21 Jun 2020


do you mean for "splitting" the incoming midi ? could you please go a bit more in detail ?

in poohbears Video Series is another video which explains the distributor and the possibility of HAMUs ModPanel8 to use the roundrobin method

Sort of splits I guess, more like diverts midi to the active device (or devices) as selected by the Thor CV curves. See attached combinator for a simple 4 voice example.

I haven't had a chance to check the videos as yet.
Now i did and your patch does something i could not achieve with ModPanel8. Its better suited for arps where every new note is played by the "next" monosynth. I really was wrapping around my head how to achieve that because (that kind of) arps are not really working with ModPanel8, so thank you ! :thumbs_up:
btw. going for more than 4 devices would need a lot more of thors and also other cv devices, right ?


BUT........ it is not polyphonic (or i misunderstood something). I think that is what you mean with "sort of ".
With the ID8s (which are poly) it sounds polyhonic because of the ID8s.
I mean, i play 3 keys (a chord) and in your patch all 3 keys get played by 1 instance of one of the ID8s.
In my Patch with the ModPanel8 every key gets to play 1 Voice of the chord, so 3 Synths are playing together the chord.

Nonetheless, thanks again for the patch. educational !

edit : added - (that kind of) - not to spread misinformation, arps of course work with ModPanel8.
Last edited by NDKay on 24 Jun 2020, edited 1 time in total.
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selig
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Post 22 Jun 2020

If REALLY want to get down and dirty, you CAN do this with stock devices - just not how you probably want to…
The answer is with a combinator, splitting 36-48 mono synths by note, depending on how wide a range you want (and how much work you want to do!).

But in cases where the parts you want to play only cover an octave or two (not uncommon for a poly synth), this definitely works. It's just a huge PITA to make patch changes beyond what you can setup from the Combinator front panel, even if you save/load patches.

BUT - it works 100% "as advertised". Tips for saving CPU - just assign notes according to the scale you're using, and delete any synths that aren't playing notes once you've recorded your part.

Advantages: it's about as "POLY" as you can get, dedicating an entire synth per voice. PLUS, you can easily create alternate tunings since each note = one synth. And you'll never run out of polyphony or have a "stolen" note issue!
Selig Audio, LLC

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Carly(Poohbear)
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Post 22 Jun 2020

NDKay wrote:
21 Jun 2020


btw: i downloaded the patches from poohbear..... the first gives me 4 DSP bars, the second goes Full Red DSP ( both without even making a sound :lol:)
I did not realise they were that heavy, as per my videos in some of them I have several running at the same time...

Anyway just had a play with your patch, nice one...

FTI: I think the Blamsoft Polymodular system is well worth the money...
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/bund ... -system-i/

PoohBear.

Sterioevo
Posts: 271
Joined: 02 Apr 2015

Post 22 Jun 2020

NDKay wrote:
22 Jun 2020

btw. going for more than 4 devices would need a lot more of thors and also other cv devices, right ?


BUT........ it is not polyphonic (or i misunderstood something). I think that is what you mean with "sort of ".
With the ID8s (which are poly) it sounds polyhonic because of the ID8s.
I mean, i play 3 keys (a chord) and in your patch all 3 keys get played by 1 instance of one of the ID8s.
"Sort of" meaning the combinator splits the midi across the contained instruments - stepping through the Curve CV's selects the active instrument.

Each Thor controls 2 voices - one for each curve CV. You could make use of the Rotary, MW and PB inputs to make a 10 voice self contained combinator (5xThors). In practice I like to have each instrument in its own combinator and would split (Thor to spiders) the midi to each combinator instrument, along with the respective curve CV to "receive notes". This way you still have the bulk of combinator controls available for instruments.

The file is setup similar to Distributors single voice, in that only one voice is played/gate.
Curve CV 1 - active only on step 1 - Voice 1
Curve CV 2 - active only on step 2 - Voice 2
Curve CV 3 - active only on step 3 - Voice 3
Curve CV 4 - active only on step 4 - Voice 4

You could for example setup a double mode by:
Curve CV 1 - active on step 1 & 2 - Voice 1 & 4
Curve CV 2 - active on step 2 & 3 - Voice 2 & 1
Curve CV 3 - active on step 3 & 4 - Voice 3 & 2
Curve CV 4 - active on step 4 & 1 - Voice 4 & 3

For Quad mode you would need more than 4 voices. The length of Thor's step sequencers relates to the number of voices. So using this approach you could achieve a 16 voice setup with 8 x Thors.

The direction sort of works like the order. The Reset ON button is there to ensure the Thor's are synchronised with each other (and would need to be adjusted if you changed the number of steps/voices).

Thor will only process and send 1 concurrent gate signal at a time (this is where Blamsoft's Poly CV comes in) so you need some timing difference for notes in a chord. Additionally there are some quirks in how Thor responds (I think this is what Selig is referring to with the mention of "stolen notes").

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Carly(Poohbear)
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Post 23 Jun 2020

Sterioevo wrote:
22 Jun 2020

The file is setup similar to Distributors single voice, in that only one voice is played/gate.
Curve CV 1 - active only on step 1 - Voice 1
Curve CV 2 - active only on step 2 - Voice 2
Curve CV 3 - active only on step 3 - Voice 3
Curve CV 4 - active only on step 4 - Voice 4

You could for example setup a double mode by:
Curve CV 1 - active on step 1 & 2 - Voice 1 & 4
Curve CV 2 - active on step 2 & 3 - Voice 2 & 1
Curve CV 3 - active on step 3 & 4 - Voice 3 & 2
Curve CV 4 - active on step 4 & 1 - Voice 4 & 3

Nice usage of the Receive notes.

Note: You could get away with less Thors and use the Note along with the curves, so each Thor can control 3 devices..

Sterioevo
Posts: 271
Joined: 02 Apr 2015

Post 23 Jun 2020

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
23 Jun 2020


Nice usage of the Receive notes.

Note: You could get away with less Thors and use the Note along with the curves, so each Thor can control 3 devices..
Cheers, yes missed that one. Full octave range provides the same CV output as the curves.

NDKay
Posts: 279
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: Suite 11

Post 24 Jun 2020

selig wrote:
22 Jun 2020
If REALLY want to get down and dirty, you CAN do this with stock devices - just not how you probably want to…
The answer is with a combinator, splitting 36-48 mono synths by note, depending on how wide a range you want (and how much work you want to do!).

But in cases where the parts you want to play only cover an octave or two (not uncommon for a poly synth), this definitely works. It's just a huge PITA to make patch changes beyond what you can setup from the Combinator front panel, even if you save/load patches.

BUT - it works 100% "as advertised". Tips for saving CPU - just assign notes according to the scale you're using, and delete any synths that aren't playing notes once you've recorded your part.

Advantages: it's about as "POLY" as you can get, dedicating an entire synth per voice. PLUS, you can easily create alternate tunings since each note = one synth. And you'll never run out of polyphony or have a "stolen" note issue!
Thank You! THAT would be the definitive answer to my question! :puf_bigsmile:

Although it seems that it would be very (very very) much work to do, i´ve not decided against trying it.
But i also dont have made the decision to start yet ! :lol:
Like you said , it would be a huge PITA


I would like to add a thing on the "stolen key issue" :
Sometimes i like when a key is missing from a chord. Sometimes i get angry about it ! :lol:
For example, when i was playing around with my MonoTonePoly patch and put down an easy chord progression in a loop, the "stolen key" adds a small chord variation to it which sounds great imo.
But if i want that exact Chord to play (right now) it can get very frustrating!

For me it comes all down to "Intention":
Its a bit like the "pitch-drift of old hw-synths" which if you dont want the OSC to drift it "grinds your (g)ears" , but it also can be very musical in the right context..... of course, it depends on taste.
This is a SmartAss. Really nothing more than that !

NDKay
Posts: 279
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: Suite 11

Post 24 Jun 2020

Sterioevo wrote:
22 Jun 2020
NDKay wrote:
22 Jun 2020

btw. going for more than 4 devices would need a lot more of thors and also other cv devices, right ?


BUT........ it is not polyphonic (or i misunderstood something). I think that is what you mean with "sort of ".
With the ID8s (which are poly) it sounds polyhonic because of the ID8s.
I mean, i play 3 keys (a chord) and in your patch all 3 keys get played by 1 instance of one of the ID8s.
"Sort of" meaning the combinator splits the midi across the contained instruments - stepping through the Curve CV's selects the active instrument.

Each Thor controls 2 voices - one for each curve CV. You could make use of the Rotary, MW and PB inputs to make a 10 voice self contained combinator (5xThors). In practice I like to have each instrument in its own combinator and would split (Thor to spiders) the midi to each combinator instrument, along with the respective curve CV to "receive notes". This way you still have the bulk of combinator controls available for instruments.

The file is setup similar to Distributors single voice, in that only one voice is played/gate.
Curve CV 1 - active only on step 1 - Voice 1
Curve CV 2 - active only on step 2 - Voice 2
Curve CV 3 - active only on step 3 - Voice 3
Curve CV 4 - active only on step 4 - Voice 4

You could for example setup a double mode by:
Curve CV 1 - active on step 1 & 2 - Voice 1 & 4
Curve CV 2 - active on step 2 & 3 - Voice 2 & 1
Curve CV 3 - active on step 3 & 4 - Voice 3 & 2
Curve CV 4 - active on step 4 & 1 - Voice 4 & 3

For Quad mode you would need more than 4 voices. The length of Thor's step sequencers relates to the number of voices. So using this approach you could achieve a 16 voice setup with 8 x Thors.

The direction sort of works like the order. The Reset ON button is there to ensure the Thor's are synchronised with each other (and would need to be adjusted if you changed the number of steps/voices).

Thor will only process and send 1 concurrent gate signal at a time (this is where Blamsoft's Poly CV comes in) so you need some timing difference for notes in a chord. Additionally there are some quirks in how Thor responds (I think this is what Selig is referring to with the mention of "stolen notes").
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
23 Jun 2020

Nice usage of the Receive notes.

Note: You could get away with less Thors and use the Note along with the curves, so each Thor can control 3 devices..
Thank you for writing that all down. :thumbs_up:

So just to be clear, with this method i wont get "real" polyphony !?
I will get a "perceived" polyphony , right ?

So it wont be a "good" method for pads, but a great one for the kind of arps i mentioned above (next note - next synth). or ?
This is a SmartAss. Really nothing more than that !

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