Please help me out with this Sample Rate trick

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Busta US
Posts: 160
Joined: 26 Oct 2019

Post 25 Jan 2020

This youtuber is giving as insightful tip on the difference between using 44.1 sample rate and 192. He is using Reaper but I'm wondering can I replicate this trick inside Reason ? Thx so much guys as always for your help :thumbs_up: (trick starts at 4:44)


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orthodox
Posts: 1180
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 25 Jan 2020

Yes you can. But I think, his problem was that triangle generator, which seems to be 'non-antialiased'. And he was talking about such non-antialiased plugins that would sound different if oversampled.
I believe, most of the Reason synths are anti-aliased, so there will be not much of a difference. Of course, you can (accidentally) produce such aliasing sounds with certain effects. Then, maybe, that method will be applicable. But there is also a number of drawbacks to rendering at higher sample rate.
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Boombastix
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Location: Bay Area, CA

Post 25 Jan 2020

Preference:Audio:Sample Rate - set to 192kHz. Then render/bounce. Many modern plugins use internal up-sampling, so this should then be pretty much a non issue.

Here is what up-sampling looks like doing a filter sweep with Subtractor and a saw wave (+ post normalizing). This pict is while filter is wide open. When it closes the waveform looks the same but amplitude is a little different. The 44k sounds more fizzy/bright at high frequencies, some may like that some may not. You can always bounce at different sample rates and see what you prefer the best, I suspect you only hear a real difference on old plugins w/o internal up-sampling, but I have not experimented much at with this, so someone else may chime in here who has done more testing.

I wish the old Reason synths had a 4x button or a 192Hz button so one could easily compare, but then I rarely use them...
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44vs192.gif
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Busta US
Posts: 160
Joined: 26 Oct 2019

Post 25 Jan 2020

orthodox wrote:
25 Jan 2020
Yes you can. But I think, his problem was that triangle generator, which seems to be 'non-antialiased'. And he was talking about such non-antialiased plugins that would sound different if oversampled.
I believe, most of the Reason synths are anti-aliased, so there will be not much of a difference. Of course, you can (accidentally) produce such aliasing sounds with certain effects. Then, maybe, that method will be applicable. But there is also a number of drawbacks to rendering at higher sample rate.
Thank you very much for your help and knowledge as always Orthodox, I really appreciate it :thumbup:

Should I just keep the default settings in Reason then ? i.e. Keep sample rate at 44.1 ?

Busta US
Posts: 160
Joined: 26 Oct 2019

Post 25 Jan 2020

Boombastix wrote:
25 Jan 2020
Preference:Audio:Sample Rate - set to 192kHz. Then render/bounce. Many modern plugins use internal up-sampling, so this should then be pretty much a non issue.

Here is what up-sampling looks like doing a filter sweep with Subtractor and a saw wave (+ post normalizing). This pict is while filter is wide open. When it closes the waveform looks the same but amplitude is a little different. The 44k sounds more fizzy/bright at high frequencies, some may like that some may not. You can always bounce at different sample rates and see what you prefer the best, I suspect you only hear a real difference on old plugins w/o internal up-sampling, but I have not experimented much at with this, so someone else may chime in here who has done more testing.

I wish the old Reason synths had a 4x button or a 192Hz button so one could easily compare, but then I rarely use them...
.
44vs192.gif
Oh thank you for making the experiment in Reason Boombastix you are the man! Wow Im impressed of how "cleaner" 192khz looks compared to 44k.

Should I just keep Sample Rate to 192khz as default for all my projects you think ? To get that "clean" sound and avoid "muddiness" or "useless" frequencies ?

Busta US
Posts: 160
Joined: 26 Oct 2019

Post 25 Jan 2020

Boombastix wrote:
25 Jan 2020
Preference:Audio:Sample Rate - set to 192kHz. Then render/bounce. Many modern plugins use internal up-sampling, so this should then be pretty much a non issue.

Here is what up-sampling looks like doing a filter sweep with Subtractor and a saw wave (+ post normalizing). This pict is while filter is wide open. When it closes the waveform looks the same but amplitude is a little different. The 44k sounds more fizzy/bright at high frequencies, some may like that some may not. You can always bounce at different sample rates and see what you prefer the best, I suspect you only hear a real difference on old plugins w/o internal up-sampling, but I have not experimented much at with this, so someone else may chime in here who has done more testing.

I wish the old Reason synths had a 4x button or a 192Hz button so one could easily compare, but then I rarely use them...
.
44vs192.gif
After re-reading you I missed the part where you say "some may like it some may not". I guess if I'm looking for what the youtuber is suggesting, maybe I have to try putting sample rate at 192kHz and see for myself.

What intrigued me in his video is that Reaper seems to have more options for Sample rate, whereas Reason only has 1 setting/option for Sample rate

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Boombastix
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Location: Bay Area, CA

Post 25 Jan 2020

Of course I am, lol. But thanks. No there is no muddiness (low frequency mud), but fizz. It affects sounds like bells and other sounds with open filters. I do not use 192, it just sucks up CPU. I pick sounds that I like.

Also note, I saw this difference at high frequencies, so not when playing bass and other sounds with low filter settings. Also, more modern synths have up-sampling and other tricks to avoid aliasing at 44k, so, you can try, but I don't run at 192. You can think of this as a lo-fi FX, w/o having to buy a new plugin to make it. :ugeek: More important is focus on making good compositions after all...just how I see it.
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