Mixing on Rokit monitors

[Jagwah]

Finally starting to understand mixing in my headphones doesn't really translate the way I want it to, even though they are apparently flat in response.

It's immediately obvious when auditioning anything through my Rokits that they have a strong emphasis in the low end. This is not good for mixing obviously but this is what I have so I am wondering if there is anything I can do to compensate for this emphasis or level things out in any way?

Any legitimate feedback and suggestions will be much appreciated, cheers!!!!

[Loque]

I do not have good experience with mixing in headphone. The ears are getting too fast tired, and i cannot "hear" the frequencies anymore and tend to make them louder. And the "bam" of the bass directly at my ear does not help me either.

I use headphones only for panoramic mixing or recording.

All the rest only with monitors. If i had the room i would add a subwoover for the very low end, but this would require a better room too.

So my 2 cents are, do not mix with headphones or make a lot of breaks and listen to some other music in between.

[EpiGenetik]

Not familiar with the Rokit series but KRK's are usually equipped with shelf switches on the back.

Have a look there first.

[selig]

Sometimes the low boost is because of being close to a boundary. As Epi says, there is often compensation for this issue provided with the monitor.
This could also be an issue with your room, so it may take some work to address properly.

I'll also mention that frequency response isn't the whole picture with regards to monitors - you can have a flat response from a spectral display and still not have flat monitors. This is because of the third axis often overlooked, which is time. Room modes will "excite" certain frequencies, which tend to ring out over time and which you CAN EQ to some degree. But EQ doesn't stop a frequency from ringing, so it's at best a partial solution. Plus you have the nulls, which no amount of EQ can correct for. This is why the best rooms I've ever heard have zero EQ, and are a result of the proper matching of room dimensions, treatment, and monitors.

All in all, the first thing I'll try is moving a monitor or sub to a different position to find the best starting point before resorting to any EQ fixes. Then an EQ you DO apply will be minimized. Hope this helps!

[miscend]

I think you can mix on them. You just have to learn them and their weaknesses, so you know how they will translate to other systems. But definitely keep your old headphones to use as a reference. Like you mentioned definitely be mindful of the low frequencies. But also keep an eye out for the upper mids as the Rockits tend not to be too revealing there imo.

[raymondh]

I like swapping between my headphones and my monitors (in my case KRK 8400s + KRK VXT6 respectively).

I struggle with room acoustics even though I've put some sound treatment in the room. I have constraints for speaker placement etc so do the best I can. The biggest problem I have is the imaging and I think it's because one speaker is much closer to a corner than the other. Maybe I'm getting what Selig was describing. It seems to make the sound a little bit muddier too (would that be what you expect Selig?).

But really, the biggest problem with my mixes I think, is I'm too lazy to A-B against a reference track. I go for gold to make it sound great in my room and then find my bass heavy mix doesn't translate so well to different listening environments, which is the other thing I should do more. I tend to get a bit impatient and just want to get it up on Soundcloud

[Kalm]

Personally, I would listen to your favorite music and notice whats different about them compared to trusted sources (like your car for example, or a friends speakers that sound pretty neutral). It doesn't have to be a flat response delivery, but something different than your KRK's. Blend a mix of 5 songs of different genres. Play them on both systems and note the differences. This will tell you how you should move and whats not translating correctly as a general consensus. Yes the KRKs are horrible in bass response. This is factual, but how much bass can be variable based on Selig's description.

EQ can help a ton but it may not do enough or do everything in the right places. If you want to go this route properly, I'll invest in Sonarworks.

If you have the spare budget, invest in proper treatment. What I mean by this is re-read your findings across the speakers and point out the two most differential problems. Purchase treatment based on THIS, not cheap bundles at Guitar Center. For the love of all that is Billy Jean don't do that.

Third piece of advice is to trade your monitors for a different pair that gives you a different sonic palette in your room. When you can't change the destination, change the source. Find a pair of monitors that have the opposite response of your KRK's and remember to listen for the things you took note of. Get a pair of speakers that closely matches your findings since making changes in your acoustic space correlates to the destination listening experience.

[guitfnky]

I've been using Rokit 5s for something like 10 years now, and they work just fine. if they don't sound quite right to you, you can try blocking the ports with rolled up socks. it's something I learned from Mike Senior's excellent book about recording for the small studio. the oldest pair of socks I still own is stuffed in these things.

also, don't mix at loud volumes (checking to see how things sound every so often is fine, but not for long stretches), and unless you've got a great room, honestly, I think using a sub is kind of pointless. once you get your speakers broken in, and get used to how they sound in your room, I think you'll have a better idea how your mix will translate in the lower registers without one.

all that said, the most important thing is (as others have already stated) the room, and your setup. it's not as sexy as a new pair of monitors, but ensuring you've got a properly treated room will do more for your mixing than just about anything else.

[Jagwah]

I do not have good experience with mixing in headphone. The ears are getting too fast tired, and i cannot "hear" the frequencies anymore and tend to make them louder. And the "bam" of the bass directly at my ear does not help me either.

I use headphones only for panoramic mixing or recording.

All the rest only with monitors. If i had the room i would add a subwoover for the very low end, but this would require a better room too.

So my 2 cents are, do not mix with headphones or make a lot of breaks and listen to some other music in between.

That's interesting I've always read that headphones are bad for panning because the perceived panning is lighter than it actually is, and a general rule of thumb here is to pan a little harder once you find the sweet spot you want as that will make up for it. Probably up for debate like lots of things in the audio world. Thanks for your comment.

[Jagwah]

Not familiar with the Rokit series but KRK's are usually equipped with shelf switches on the back.

Have a look there first.

Yes but they are so crude, like the 'Cut' section on Scream 4 but even cruder. I'm hoping Selig will have some genius idea here, cheers

[Jagwah]

Comment removed

[Jagwah]

I think you can mix on them. You just have to learn them and their weaknesses, so you know how they will translate to other systems. But definitely keep your old headphones to use as a reference. Like you mentioned definitely be mindful of the low frequencies. But also keep an eye out for the upper mids as the Rockits tend not to be too revealing there imo.

So now I have to worry about upper mids as well??!? Lol I'll get there with some persistence, thanks

I like swapping between my headphones and my monitors (in my case KRK 8400s + KRK VXT6 respectively).

I struggle with room acoustics even though I've put some sound treatment in the room. I have constraints for speaker placement etc so do the best I can. The biggest problem I have is the imaging and I think it's because one speaker is much closer to a corner than the other. Maybe I'm getting what Selig was describing. It seems to make the sound a little bit muddier too (would that be what you expect Selig?).

But really, the biggest problem with my mixes I think, is I'm too lazy to A-B against a reference track. I go for gold to make it sound great in my room and then find my bass heavy mix doesn't translate so well to different listening environments, which is the other thing I should do more. I tend to get a bit impatient and just want to get it up on Soundcloud

Yep same problem I have and I'm hoping it's not too much of an issue because it is what it is, I can't knock down walls or do much at all really. Cool idea to swap between the two I will remember that cheers

Personally, I would listen to your favorite music and notice whats different about them compared to trusted sources (like your car for example, or a friends speakers that sound pretty neutral). It doesn't have to be a flat response delivery, but something different than your KRK's. Blend a mix of 5 songs of different genres. Play them on both systems and note the differences. This will tell you how you should move and whats not translating correctly as a general consensus. Yes the KRKs are horrible in bass response. This is factual, but how much bass can be variable based on Selig's description.

EQ can help a ton but it may not do enough or do everything in the right places. If you want to go this route properly, I'll invest in Sonarworks.

If you have the spare budget, invest in proper treatment. What I mean by this is re-read your findings across the speakers and point out the two most differential problems. Purchase treatment based on THIS, not cheap bundles at Guitar Center. For the love of all that is Billy Jean don't do that.

Third piece of advice is to trade your monitors for a different pair that gives you a different sonic palette in your room. When you can't change the destination, change the source. Find a pair of monitors that have the opposite response of your KRK's and remember to listen for the things you took note of. Get a pair of speakers that closely matches your findings since making changes in your acoustic space correlates to the destination listening experience.

Hey thanks man some great advice here, I will come back and try out the different genres reference tracks idea. I have a lounge room stereo and can try out the TV as well for a few different reference points.

I never really thought of selling these and getting something more appropriate, I will look in to how much these sell for and take it from there.

Great suggestions, many thanks!

I've been using Rokit 5s for something like 10 years now, and they work just fine. if they don't sound quite right to you, you can try blocking the ports with rolled up socks. it's something I learned from Mike Senior's excellent book about recording for the small studio. the oldest pair of socks I still own is stuffed in these things.

also, don't mix at loud volumes (checking to see how things sound every so often is fine, but not for long stretches), and unless you've got a great room, honestly, I think using a sub is kind of pointless. once you get your speakers broken in, and get used to how they sound in your room, I think you'll have a better idea how your mix will translate in the lower registers without one.

all that said, the most important thing is (as others have already stated) the room, and your setup. it's not as sexy as a new pair of monitors, but ensuring you've got a properly treated room will do more for your mixing than just about anything else.

Well it's nice to know you've been using the same speakers (I have the 5s as well).

The sock idea sounds like a real redneck way to do it but hey if it works that's great! It could be my saviour here.

I was just looking at calibrating monitor videos on YouTube and they are only about setting the correct volumes for your speakers really, but I did learn there that there's lots of phone apps now that allow you to measure the exact decibels you are putting out so you can set your mixing volume level to the precise recommended amount.

Thanks for your input!

[Loque]

I do not have good experience with mixing in headphone. The ears are getting too fast tired, and i cannot "hear" the frequencies anymore and tend to make them louder. And the "bam" of the bass directly at my ear does not help me either.

I use headphones only for panoramic mixing or recording.

All the rest only with monitors. If i had the room i would add a subwoover for the very low end, but this would require a better room too.

So my 2 cents are, do not mix with headphones or make a lot of breaks and listen to some other music in between.

That's interesting I've always read that headphones are bad for panning because the perceived panning is lighter than it actually is, and a general rule of thumb here is to pan a little harder once you find the sweet spot you want as that will make up for it. Probably up for debate like lots of things in the audio world. Thanks for your comment.

True, you do not really have a "front", rather you have "in head". I use it to get the right side position according to the other parts. I find it easier to position in stereo field with headphones as long as i can live with "no front" but "in head" sound.

[PhillipOrdonez]

I got the same (5 G2) pair for over 10 years and they work fine, but placement is really something basic you got to get down first. Once you place them properly how they are meant to be, you can think of room acoustics. You can find table top monitor stands if you can't move the desk.

If you cannot set up treatment to the room at all, then sonarworks is the last you should do (I haven't but I will add soon as possible invest in the monitor version of their program with the microphone thingy) on the mean time, very low volume is your best friend, as it will reduce excessive bass energy buildups and provide a flatter response that isn't too affected by your room.

Use other references like headphones and speakers you know well.

Use references when you mix.

Good luck.

[selig]

That's interesting I've always read that headphones are bad for panning because the perceived panning is lighter than it actually is, and a general rule of thumb here is to pan a little harder once you find the sweet spot you want as that will make up for it. Probably up for debate like lots of things in the audio world. Thanks for your comment.

Headphones actually have more perceived panning because there is no crosstalk. In a room with speakers, panning is less dramatic because you always hear even hard panned signals to some degree in the opposite ear.

[Jagwah]

That's interesting I've always read that headphones are bad for panning because the perceived panning is lighter than it actually is, and a general rule of thumb here is to pan a little harder once you find the sweet spot you want as that will make up for it. Probably up for debate like lots of things in the audio world. Thanks for your comment.

Headphones actually have more perceived panning because there is no crosstalk. In a room with speakers, panning is less dramatic because you always hear even hard panned signals to some degree in the opposite ear.

My bad!! I knew it was one or the other. Please see my other reply and add some thoughts if you can when you have some spare time, many thanks!

[Jagwah]

I got the same (5 G2) pair for over 10 years and they work fine, but placement is really something basic you got to get down first. Once you place them properly how they are meant to be, you can think of room acoustics. You can find table top monitor stands if you can't move the desk.

If you cannot set up treatment to the room at all, then sonarworks is the last you should do (I haven't but I will add soon as possible invest in the monitor version of their program with the microphone thingy) on the mean time, very low volume is your best friend, as it will reduce excessive bass energy buildups and provide a flatter response that isn't too affected by your room.

Use other references like headphones and speakers you know well.

Use references when you mix.

Good luck.

Great suggestions thank you. I think Sonarworks is kind of what I was thinking of with the EQ in the master to counter a bad room so I will look in to it more. Also the trick of mixing with low volumes makes a lot of sense, thanks for your input!!

[mcatalao]

I'd say you need to get them away from the walls, place your mixing and hearing position correctly your room and most probably... You need acoustic treatment.

Anyway, before you start blaming the mixes, or the monitors, or yourself... You should listen to a lot of stuff on your monitors, and your room, to know them very very well.

Treat the room, best option would be to stay away from foam products, and invest in good bass and broadband traps. You can even go DIY.

This site:

https://realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm

is great for learning this stuff, and though they produce bass traps as a business, they have DIY plans for broad band absorbers (you can build your own from fiberglass or high density rockwool).

[mcatalao]

Oh and btw... Nowadays, studio monitors, thought for the same room dimensions (i.e. if you're comparing mid or narrow fields with the same cone size) are very similar in frequency response. Focals clam they're flat to +-3 db which is amazing (and probably true because mine sound great!!).

IMO, if you have a lot of bass, like exaggerated that is either the mix or the room. Not the Rokits specially the 5"...

[Boombastix]

Consider this one: (currently on sale)
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/i ... r&PSEL=arc

I have the MTM's with built in DSP, but you can use ARC2 in your DAW with any speaker. AMAZING stuff. And things like these were over $1000 back in day.

[miyaru]

I mix on Presonus Eris E8 monitors, but their placement is not ideal. Therefore I use Sonarworks Reference in my too small studio room. Does not fix everything but still does so much it is more informative and straight then without it......

[Benedict]

If you pay for may fares & accommodation (not to mention fish & chips), I'll come over the Nullabor and help you out. Placement is an ear/experience thing.

If you have Stav's "Mixing With Your Mind" book he has a colorful process based on finding the flame.

[Jagwah]

IMO, if you have a lot of bass, like exaggerated that is either the mix or the room. Not the Rokits specially the 5"...

Well that's a good thing because I really don't want to use the crude EQ adjustments on the back of the speakers.

The Realtraps site looks really good, thanks.

[Jagwah]

Consider this one: (currently on sale)
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/i ... r&PSEL=arc

I have the MTM's with built in DSP, but you can use ARC2 in your DAW with any speaker. AMAZING stuff. And things like these were over $1000 back in day.

Glad things like this exist, looks like I'm going to rearrange my room for the speakers, then I'll be left wondering how well they are set up so something like this could be ideal, cheers!

[Jagwah]

I mix on Presonus Eris E8 monitors, but their placement is not ideal. Therefore I use Sonarworks Reference in my too small studio room. Does not fix everything but still does so much it is more informative and straight then without it......

Yeah Sonarworks looks great, I hope to get things set up so I can do mixes that translate appropriately, thanks for chiming in

If you pay for may fares & accommodation (not to mention fish & chips), I'll come over the Nullabor and help you out. Placement is an ear/experience thing.

If you have Stav's "Mixing With Your Mind" book he has a colorful process based on finding the flame.

Cool, get someone to give you a ride so you can just look out the window, should be quite a meditative experience across the Nullabor lol

Yes I have Stav's book I will certainly look up this in there, I hope he simplifies things a bit like he did with his compression technique, cheers!