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Molotovbeatz wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

Hi gang,

I came accross this video tutorial by Propellerhead about advance mastering - focusing the master bus compressor

I have a question, since he is suggesting to use Synapse AF-4 Analog Filter which is a paid Utility/Effect extension ($45) is there another possible way to achieve what he was showing on the video with the free tools or the stock utilities that we have in RE10 ?

I was curious if there are other methods to achieve this without involving any cost (for now Im too broke )

It's a great tutorial btw, for those interested in enhancing the mastering process.

PhillipOrdonez wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

You can do that with any eq or filter be it stock, re, free or paid. If you don't want to use the stock EQ for this, or Thor's high pass filter, or the mclass stereo imager, there is a free re in the shop, search for filter and you'll find it, magmasonic I think is the developer.

Molotovbeatz wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

PhillipOrdonez wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

You can do that with any eq or filter be it stock, re, free or paid. If you don't want to use the stock EQ for this, or Thor's high pass filter, or the mclass stereo imager, there is a free re in the shop, search for filter and you'll find it, magmasonic I think is the developer.

I can give a try with the stock EQ in reason but I don't really know where to begin or how to proceed. Perhaps you could give me a tip or show me the proper way? An example with the M-class stereo perhaps ? I appreciate.
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Edit----

I checked the free magmasonic on the shop and I noticed it has only a switch between 12 dB and 18 dB. I wish there was a switch for 24dB like in the Synapse.

PhillipOrdonez wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

Use Thor then. You can use the high pass filter on it, it has a 24db option (as far as I remember). Search how to use Thor as a filter, once you got it set up, save it as a patch and just use it as a filter for your master bus compressor keying!

selig wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

then move the output from the “FROM DEVICES” jacks to the “SIDECHAIN INPUT” jacks

Molotovbeatz wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

I tried the method suggested by Selig but it didnt work. After assigning the audio output to sidechain of master section the sound is gone. What did I do wrong?

diminished wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

selig wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

diminished wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

You don’t even need the cables from the output of the Stereo Imager to the “from devices” jacks, it’s “normalled” without cables.

As for what crossover frequency, it’s (as always) down to what you’re trying to accomplish.

For me, I want to get around the same amount of gain reduction when the snare hits as when the kick hits. If it’s a four on the floor, then try to make it so the kick isn’t the only thing causing gain reduction! The frequency that ends up working will therefore depend on your source material (how bass heavy) and your intention.

selig wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

diminished wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

You don’t even need the cables from the output of the Stereo Imager to the “from devices” jacks, it’s “normalled” without cables.

As for what crossover frequency, it’s (as always) down to what you’re trying to accomplish.

For me, I want to get around the same amount of gain reduction when the snare hits as when the kick hits. If it’s a four on the floor, then try to make it so the kick isn’t the only thing causing gain reduction! The frequency that ends up working will therefore depend on your source material (how bass heavy) and your intention.

Reasonable man wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

Can i just ask that in order for the abouve configuration to work I presume that you would take the master outs and take them into a mix channel containing whatever inserts you want to use and then from that mixchannel finally into the audio i/o interface outs. Is this right?

Reasonable man wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

And if your putting your inserts (compression , saturation ,limiting etc) into a mix channel this way (intesad of using them in the master inserts slot) that you just have to make sure that the limiter is the last device in the mix channel chain?

Reasonable man wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

I just ask beacuse i had being using the control room outs for quite a while into a stereo imager (high passed) then into the master sidechain input the way ryan does in the video and utilizing the master inserts section with satuarion mid-side eqing etc etc ...but.... i was also activating the inserts pre compression button on the desk until it dawned on me one day that the master compressor was compressing everything AFTER the master inserts were doing their thing and that i wasn't actually 'mixing into the master compressor' at all! (i watched a youtube video were a dude casually said that you needed to use 'inserts pre compression button' when sidechaing the master compressor but i guess i hadn't realised that he obvioulsy wasn't using the control room outs to feed the sidechain)

Reasonable man wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

So i can keep doing it the way i was but not hitting the 'inserts pre compression' button or i could not use the control room outs and do it the way im guessing your doing it. The main advantage being that you can use the control room outs for other purposes.

diminished wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2019

Reasonable man wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

Can i just ask that in order for the abouve configuration to work I presume that you would take the master outs and take them into a mix channel containing whatever inserts you want to use and then from that mixchannel finally into the audio i/o interface outs. Is this right?

Yes, but they don't have to be in a channel as inserts, "free floating" or inside a combinator would suffice. Signal flow might look confusing after a while esp. with send efx connected. This is the reason why I personally don't like it the way selig does. You also lose the mastering insert "combinator" and its buttons and knobs in the mixer, unless you put everything in that master insert section which makes signal flow even harder to follow.

Reasonable man wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

And if your putting your inserts (compression , saturation ,limiting etc) into a mix channel this way (intesad of using them in the master inserts slot) that you just have to make sure that the limiter is the last device in the mix channel chain?

Yes.

Reasonable man wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

I just ask beacuse i had being using the control room outs for quite a while into a stereo imager (high passed) then into the master sidechain input the way ryan does in the video and utilizing the master inserts section with satuarion mid-side eqing etc etc ...but.... i was also activating the inserts pre compression button on the desk until it dawned on me one day that the master compressor was compressing everything AFTER the master inserts were doing their thing and that i wasn't actually 'mixing into the master compressor' at all! (i watched a youtube video were a dude casually said that you needed to use 'inserts pre compression button' when sidechaing the master compressor but i guess i hadn't realised that he obvioulsy wasn't using the control room outs to feed the sidechain)

Typically you'd want the master bus compressor to be your last limb in the mixing chain, but in any case before you do anything mastering related.

Reasonable man wrote: ↑

08 Feb 2019

So i can keep doing it the way i was but not hitting the 'inserts pre compression' button or i could not use the control room outs and do it the way im guessing your doing it. The main advantage being that you can use the control room outs for other purposes.

Yes. Whatever you chose to use, remember that you can always put a audio splitter in your rack to either have a copy of your Master Out or CtrlRoom Out. (That's the way I do it FWIW and it's nice and tidy, plus I always have a copy at hand, e.g. for sampling my Master Out and also global effects (tape stop, filter..) )
myMBCsidechain.jpg

Molotovbeatz wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2019

Thank you Selig and diminished, I think I understand now how the master bus sidechain works with Stereo image to achieve the same effect as Ryan described on his video. Great stuff, nothing like this I could learn from FL studio before. I love reason

selig wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2019

My point was to distill the concept down to the basics, and avoid using the master out or control room out, period. You only need two connections to make this work, no matter which EQ or filter you choose. Using splitters or a mix channel isn’t necessary at all, even for more complex setups.

I keep things as simple as possible mainly to speed up my workflow and eliminate possible confusion at a later date!

Molotovbeatz wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2019

I couldn't make it without using the CTRL ROOM out. Below my current setup, what can you advice if I would not use the CTRL ROOM output? Like this below it's working for now but I would like to know the simple method to keep it simple as you described

selig wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2019

My approach begins with the idea that you want ito use a “clean” signal for the side-chain. But if you use the CR, the signal you’re using is not only already compressed by the Master Compressor, but also affected by all the other stuff I see in your master insert. To my way of thinking, you’re taking the signal for the side chain from the wrong end of the signal chain! Take it instead from the start, not the end.

To do this, make sure inserts are PRE COMPRESSOR. This means the “To Devices” jack gives you the raw master bus signal, before hitting anything else. Take this signal (as I already explained above) into the Stereo Imager (or other filter/EQ), and then into the side chain input.

That’s it, that’s all you need to do.

But if you want more stuff on your master (as in your attached pic), and you want it BEFORE the master compressor, then you can use the main output on the Stereo Image to feed the other devices and use the Separate Output/High Band for the side chain input. No splitter needed.

selig wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2019

And if you want to add more processing AFTER the compressor (sometimes preferred so that changes to the other devices don’t require changes to the compressor), you’ll need to patch it between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface (which is how I do it - see below).

selig wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2019

That being said, I use a different approach for further “mastering” devices, which I patch AFTER the Maseter Outputs of the mixer (as it would be done IRL). There are two reasons for this. One is because of dither, which needs to be last and you cannot change levels after adding dither - so you cannot put anything that adds dither in the Master Insert if you’re going to do a fade out with the Master Fader. Another is that I like to keep mixing and mastering devices separate - I consider the Master Compressor to be a mix device, being a long time SSL mixer guy.

selig wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2019

And if you want to add more processing AFTER the compressor (sometimes preferred so that changes to the other devices don’t require changes to the compressor), you’ll need to patch it between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface (which is how I do it - see below).

That being said, I use a different approach for further “mastering” devices, which I patch AFTER the Maseter Outputs of the mixer (as it would be done IRL).