Adding sub-bass to a snare?

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Wobbleburger
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Post 01 Oct 2018

I was reading this tutorial on snare creation for dubstep. I'll probably be using it more for dnb, but I was interested in how they're adding a sub-bass layer to boost the lows of the snare. Has anybody done this in Reason? If so, care to share how?

https://www.izotope.com/en/blog/music-p ... snare.html
:essentials: :re:
I like jungle.

messy-jesse
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Post 01 Oct 2018

I like using the transients of an 808 kick, I'll also layer a tom in with 4 or 5 other snares. Lol

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normen
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Post 01 Oct 2018

The oldschool way would be a constant sine signal on a channel with a gate that has it's sidechain fed by the snare signal. But nowadays you usually have the snare as a MIDI track anyway so just throw in a synth track to play a short low sine with the same pattern as the snare.

RandomSkratch
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Post 01 Oct 2018

normen wrote:The oldschool way would be a constant sine signal on a channel with a gate that has it's sidechain fed by the snare signal. But nowadays you usually have the snare as a MIDI track anyway so just throw in a synth track to play a short low sine with the same pattern as the snare.
Or you could also use the same method of gate to trigger a synth with a short envelope (or link pads in Kong, etc). Plenty of ways to do this in the modern DAW.

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joeyluck
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Post 01 Oct 2018

I've been using Enforcer by Boom Library. You can of course do similar tricks, triggering things via CV, but it's a really great plugin and I get awesome results easily. It's sound source is synthesis so you have great flexibility over the sound and comes with many useful patches for an array of applications from kick, snare, to explosions etc. I use it for much of my theatre sound design to add extra low end to just about anything.

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selig
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Post 01 Oct 2018

I use my ColoringEQ for this sort of thing, using a technique I discovered early in the development process I call “focused saturation. You’re basically boosting a narrow Q band and adding saturation to emphasize the fundamental of the instrument, while also adding harmonics and creating sustain. Really adds weight to drums IMO, while also making them cut through even on smaller speaker systems.

Plus you can also add high frequency saturation/harmonics to give dull snares a little extra sizzle, as well as carve out any nasty frequencies while you’re at it.


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AS7RO
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Post 01 Oct 2018

I never heard of that. However, I do know that they used to pitch up and down toms for the body of the snare. layering along with fast decaying noise and an acoustic snare. + post processing.

RandomSkratch
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Post 01 Oct 2018

selig wrote:I use my ColoringEQ for this sort of thing, using a technique I discovered early in the development process I call “focused saturation. You’re basically boosting a narrow Q band and adding saturation to emphasize the fundamental of the instrument, while also adding harmonics and creating sustain. Really adds weight to drums IMO, while also making them cut through even on smaller speaker systems.

Plus you can also add high frequency saturation/harmonics to give dull snares a little extra sizzle, as well as carve out any nasty frequencies while you’re at it.


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I must try this! I feel like this device is much more deeper than it seems. So many practical applications!

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Wobbleburger
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Post 03 Oct 2018

messy-jesse wrote:
01 Oct 2018
I like using the transients of an 808 kick, I'll also layer a tom in with 4 or 5 other snares. Lol

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Love this idea. I tested out a sine wave with very quick decay and it sounds decent. Plus, it's a really easy way to ensure the snare is tuned. I literally have to stop myself after 1 hour of working on a snare or I'll waste a whole night on it... maybe not waste but you get the idea.
:essentials: :re:
I like jungle.

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Wobbleburger
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Post 03 Oct 2018

RandomSkratch wrote:
01 Oct 2018
selig wrote:I use my ColoringEQ for this sort of thing, using a technique I discovered early in the development process I call “focused saturation. You’re basically boosting a narrow Q band and adding saturation to emphasize the fundamental of the instrument, while also adding harmonics and creating sustain. Really adds weight to drums IMO, while also making them cut through even on smaller speaker systems.

Plus you can also add high frequency saturation/harmonics to give dull snares a little extra sizzle, as well as carve out any nasty frequencies while you’re at it.


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
I must try this! I feel like this device is much more deeper than it seems. So many practical applications!
Just got the coloring EQ but it's not 'active' until my sub restarts. Until then, I've found that the tritone can be awesome for distorting certain freqs

edit: also big up on you guys for releasing it. It is replacing my Synapse EQ and that's a big statement. I may use both later on but I have a feeling this RE is just what I need.
:essentials: :re:
I like jungle.

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pushedbutton
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Post 03 Oct 2018

Hello,
Just a random thought after skimming through the topic.
What I'd consider doing is having the sub retriggered by the kick and modified by the snare. There's a few ways to skin that cat but I think it would probably be better than retriggering the sub with every beat.
the rule of thumb i work to is 'low pitched sounds last longer than high pitched sound.' So with sub being the lowest pitch I'd avoid triggering it too often. I see the sub sound like a rubber or jelly sound, it should be on the plate long enough to have a play with it. Too many sub re-triggers would leave you fighting a muddy sound. Think carefully about the envelope and how you can balance the sub between having a presence and causing muddyness. Occupying the same frequency range for too long can cause fatigue, so consider how the sound evolves or can be manipulated over time.
Well I've done enough theorising, I'm off to try it.
@pushedbutton on twitter, add me, send me a message, but don't try to sell me stuff cos I'm skint. https://allihoopa.com/pushedbutton#

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joeyluck
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Post 03 Oct 2018

I've had really great results from Enforcer. I recommend giving it a try :) They offer a free 7-day trial. It makes it easy and it's very versatile. https://www.boomlibrary.com/sound-effects/enforcer/


Also, Disperser by kiloHearts works well on many things. I've gotten great results from one instance of Disperser, and sometimes I'll use a few of them in a chain. https://shop.propellerheads.se/rack-ext ... disperser/

RandomSkratch
Posts: 400
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Post 03 Oct 2018

joeyluck wrote:I've had really great results from Enforcer. I recommend giving it a try :) They offer a free 7-day trial. It makes it easy and it's very versatile. https://www.boomlibrary.com/sound-effects/enforcer/


Also, Disperser by kiloHearts works well on many things. I've gotten great results from one instance of Disperser, and sometimes I'll use a few of them in a chain. https://shop.propellerheads.se/rack-ext ... disperser/
I keep looking at Disperser every time it goes on sale and can't seem to commit because it's one of those plugins that makes you go "what is this I can't even!?". My trial has long expired and I never got to test mono compatibility. Does the effect fall apart when stereo field is collapsed?

RandomSkratch
Posts: 400
Joined: 10 May 2016

Post 03 Oct 2018

joeyluck wrote:I've been using Enforcer by Boom Library. You can of course do similar tricks, triggering things via CV, but it's a really great plugin and I get awesome results easily. It's sound source is synthesis so you have great flexibility over the sound and comes with many useful patches for an array of applications from kick, snare, to explosions etc. I use it for much of my theatre sound design to add extra low end to just about anything.
Just watched the trailer...ho...ly... Shi... That sub drop for theatre sounds.. jaw on the floor! It's so clean sounding too! Wowow!


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selig
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Post 03 Oct 2018

joeyluck wrote:
03 Oct 2018
I've had really great results from Enforcer. I recommend giving it a try :) They offer a free 7-day trial. It makes it easy and it's very versatile. https://www.boomlibrary.com/sound-effects/enforcer/


Also, Disperser by kiloHearts works well on many things. I've gotten great results from one instance of Disperser, and sometimes I'll use a few of them in a chain. https://shop.propellerheads.se/rack-ext ... disperser/
I've been unable to find anything useful for my work with disperser, but Enforcer looks downright addictive - gonna have to trial that baby post haste! Thanks for the tip, Joey. :)
Selig Audio, LLC

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joeyluck
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Post 03 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
03 Oct 2018
joeyluck wrote:
03 Oct 2018
I've had really great results from Enforcer. I recommend giving it a try :) They offer a free 7-day trial. It makes it easy and it's very versatile. https://www.boomlibrary.com/sound-effects/enforcer/


Also, Disperser by kiloHearts works well on many things. I've gotten great results from one instance of Disperser, and sometimes I'll use a few of them in a chain. https://shop.propellerheads.se/rack-ext ... disperser/
I've been unable to find anything useful for my work with disperser, but Enforcer looks downright addictive - gonna have to trial that baby post haste! Thanks for the tip, Joey. :)
Yeah it's really great and has done wonders for me. Like I mentioned before, when I first trialed it, I initially thought, "Well, maybe I could do this using this and that, creating a Combinator with a drum synth like SubBoomBass or whatnot, etc..." But It just works very well and simplifies my workflow and the interface is so simple.

These folks are the same sound designers who produce so many of the incredible sounds used in film and video games, so I've of course got my eye on any plugin they make. I still really want their other plugin, Turbine, but that one requires the iLok dongle. I'm hoping they change that since they released Enforcer after which allow iLok computer authorization. It's for creating engine sounds and various other things. They actually have a competition going on now. But back on topic...

In theatre sometimes and very often in Escape Rooms, I use Buttkickers (transducers) to shake things. And Enforcer has made getting great results out of those much easier.

Here's some videos hosted on Google Photos...
This is a little testing station I have setup at the shop. That platform is about 70 lbs or so.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QvpbdLn8yvXSjqnGA

and some more testing: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jLqpDELirQy15xD46
:D

Of course, now I've really gotten of topic of adding sub to a snare lol

RandomSkratch
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Post 03 Oct 2018

joeyluck wrote:
03 Oct 2018

Here's some videos hosted on Google Photos...
This is a little testing station I have setup at the shop. That platform is about 70 lbs or so.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QvpbdLn8yvXSjqnGA

and some more testing: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jLqpDELirQy15xD46
:D

Of course, now I've really gotten of topic of adding sub to a snare lol
Links don't work (404). Really want to see this!

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joeyluck
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Post 03 Oct 2018

RandomSkratch wrote:
03 Oct 2018
joeyluck wrote:
03 Oct 2018

Here's some videos hosted on Google Photos...
This is a little testing station I have setup at the shop. That platform is about 70 lbs or so.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QvpbdLn8yvXSjqnGA

and some more testing: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jLqpDELirQy15xD46
:D

Of course, now I've really gotten of topic of adding sub to a snare lol
Links don't work (404). Really want to see this!
Ok I edited the links. I forgot to get the "shareable" links. Thanks!

RandomSkratch
Posts: 400
Joined: 10 May 2016

Post 03 Oct 2018

joeyluck wrote:
03 Oct 2018
RandomSkratch wrote:
03 Oct 2018


Links don't work (404). Really want to see this!
Ok I edited the links. I forgot to get the "shareable" links. Thanks!
:o :shock: :o :shock:

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selig
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Post 03 Oct 2018

joeyluck wrote:
03 Oct 2018

Yeah it's really great and has done wonders for me. Like I mentioned before, when I first trialed it, I initially thought, "Well, maybe I could do this using this and that, creating a Combinator with a drum synth like SubBoomBass or whatnot, etc..." But It just works very well and simplifies my workflow and the interface is so simple.
Gotta say that while I prefer the direct solutions such as provided by this plugin, Europa is my new favorite drum synth these days due to the layers, the envelope and their flexible curves, and the filter options. Just takes more work/time to accomplish the same thing…
Selig Audio, LLC

RandomSkratch
Posts: 400
Joined: 10 May 2016

Post 05 Oct 2018

joeyluck wrote:
RandomSkratch wrote:
03 Oct 2018
Links don't work (404). Really want to see this!
Ok I edited the links. I forgot to get the "shareable" links. Thanks!
I just realized my reply made no sense in the context lol. That was really cool! Are those just used for simulating large sounds like explosions and whatnot? They look really strong. Where would they be mounted? Plus that plugin is ultra cool.

TritoneAddiction
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Post 06 Oct 2018

RandomSkratch wrote:
03 Oct 2018
I keep looking at Disperser every time it goes on sale and can't seem to commit because it's one of those plugins that makes you go "what is this I can't even!?". My trial has long expired and I never got to test mono compatibility. Does the effect fall apart when stereo field is collapsed?
So I'm probably the biggest fan of Disperser there is. It was an impulse buy, but I've never regretted it one bit. I use it all the time. Sure it's a one trick pony, but that trick seems to work good enough to include in at least 90% of my tracks. I use it on drums, basses, plucks. At this point it's become part of how I shape and mix my sounds, just as much as a compressor would. The trick is to not overdo the effect. Never had a problem with mono compatibility with Disperser.

But hey some people don't really care for it so I don't know. For me it's like learning to use any tool. If you don't know how to use a compressor or overdo the effect the results won't be good, same with the Disperser.

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joeyluck
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Post 06 Oct 2018

RandomSkratch wrote:
05 Oct 2018
joeyluck wrote:
Ok I edited the links. I forgot to get the "shareable" links. Thanks!
I just realized my reply made no sense in the context lol. That was really cool! Are those just used for simulating large sounds like explosions and whatnot? They look really strong. Where would they be mounted? Plus that plugin is ultra cool.
They can be used in a variety of applications. The Buttkicker, which I use exclusively because it works extremely well and never fails, is more often marketed towards applications where someone is seated...

The most common application where it first gained most its popularity and what it was most geared towards, is to attach it to a drum throne or the platform in which the drums are set, and use them to enhance the monitoring for the drummer. So then the drummer can feel their own kick and bass from the bass player (a necessity really in large venues and arenas where even in ear monitors don't cut it).

Folks also attach them to their couches at home to replace their subwoofers; all the feeling with not all the noise (well minus any noise of rattling furniture you might create if you go overboard lol). And of course, some movie theaters and amusement parks may use them in attached to audience seats (you might have ridden one of those 3D adventure rides where the theater is on hydraulics and sometimes sprays water and you feel impact and shakes from within the seat). They even make smaller version you can attach to computer chairs...

The version I use in theatres and escape rooms, and that I own a pair of personally, are the Buttkicker Concert. They are 1500 watts each at 2ohms (I use them with the Behringer NU3000 or NX3000 when it's released) and has a frequency response of 5Hz to 200Hz. So you can achieve the previously mentioned applications at fairly low gain settings, or you can crank it up and make things shake! You just send it audio like you would any amp/speaker, and it responds greatest to sounds in that low frequency range and a magnetically suspended piston inside moves. They are really fun to play with!

RandomSkratch
Posts: 400
Joined: 10 May 2016

Post 06 Oct 2018

TritoneAddiction wrote:
RandomSkratch wrote:
03 Oct 2018
I keep looking at Disperser every time it goes on sale and can't seem to commit because it's one of those plugins that makes you go "what is this I can't even!?". My trial has long expired and I never got to test mono compatibility. Does the effect fall apart when stereo field is collapsed?
So I'm probably the biggest fan of Disperser there is. It was an impulse buy, but I've never regretted it one bit. I use it all the time. Sure it's a one trick pony, but that trick seems to work good enough to include in at least 90% of my tracks. I use it on drums, basses, plucks. At this point it's become part of how I shape and mix my sounds, just as much as a compressor would. The trick is to not overdo the effect. Never had a problem with mono compatibility with Disperser.

But hey some people don't really care for it so I don't know. For me it's like learning to use any tool. If you don't know how to use a compressor or overdo the effect the results won't be good, same with the Disperser.
Very good to know. I think it's definitely the perfect device when you need a "little something extra". I'll grab it one of these days.

RandomSkratch
Posts: 400
Joined: 10 May 2016

Post 06 Oct 2018

joeyluck wrote:
RandomSkratch wrote:
05 Oct 2018
I just realized my reply made no sense in the context lol. That was really cool! Are those just used for simulating large sounds like explosions and whatnot? They look really strong. Where would they be mounted? Plus that plugin is ultra cool.
They can be used in a variety of applications. The Buttkicker, which I use exclusively because it works extremely well and never fails, is more often marketed towards applications where someone is seated...

The most common application where it first gained most its popularity and what it was most geared towards, is to attach it to a drum throne or the platform in which the drums are set, and use them to enhance the monitoring for the drummer. So then the drummer can feel their own kick and bass from the bass player (a necessity really in large venues and arenas where even in ear monitors don't cut it).

Folks also attach them to their couches at home to replace their subwoofers; all the feeling with not all the noise (well minus any noise of rattling furniture you might create if you go overboard lol). And of course, some movie theaters and amusement parks may use them in attached to audience seats (you might have ridden one of those 3D adventure rides where the theater is on hydraulics and sometimes sprays water and you feel impact and shakes from within the seat). They even make smaller version you can attach to computer chairs...

The version I use in theatres and escape rooms, and that I own a pair of personally, are the Buttkicker Concert. They are 1500 watts each at 2ohms (I use them with the Behringer NU3000 or NX3000 when it's released) and has a frequency response of 5Hz to 200Hz. So you can achieve the previously mentioned applications at fairly low gain settings, or you can crank it up and make things shake! You just send it audio like you would any amp/speaker, and it responds greatest to sounds in that low frequency range and a magnetically suspended piston inside moves. They are really fun to play with!
Very cool Joey, thanks for the explanations!


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