Preparing for Vinyl

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RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

19 Jun 2018

No matter what we get on it, in the past 4 years, I've learned the following:

- There's a definite low end and a high end limit (for example below 30 Hz needs to be silent, likewise above 17000 Hz)
- Even your mono sub frequencies need to be decreased (otherwise it won't work); and higher frequencies need to kept at bay as well (unless you like harsh noisy distortion)
- Not only there can't be (the anyway needless) sub frequency content in the side channel (differences, or "stereo"), even bass frequencies either need limitation, or be wiped out entirely
- Extra wide sounds won't work either, so there can't be any super jumps in the side channel
- Impacts after silent sections, aren't really tolerated either
- The more bass, the shorter the track needs to be

EDIT: - The RIAA equalization curve always gets applied which adds a huge boost to the highs
- As the track gets to the center of the vinyl, it's better to put more quiet passages there, with less high frequency content and less bass. (Old LPs used to put vocal tracks last for this reason.)
- Dry gating won't do much good, and might be impossible to recreate on vinyl
- Needless to say, don't clip, or limit, put the loudness war elsewhere, cause you'll end up much quieter on vinyl, actually! Tops saturate extreme peaks like clicks, even that with multi-band processing

~ There will be noise, there will be distortion, and as the vinyl gets to the center, high frequency response will decrease

I mean, I would love to hear my own work on vinyl, but all these limitations are off-putting.
Not only that, but we barely ever get enough information for the preparation.

How hard is it to say what we can squeeze into specific frequency ranges either in the mono or side channel?
Like what, should we make a 96 dB high pass filtering at 80 Hz, and -144 dB HF @ 640 Hz in the side channel? Squash the shiz out of everything above 5120 Hz? Maybe hard limit what's left in the side channel to the song's average mono audio levels?
Ranting, ranting...

It would be great to know such details, since I would design sounds from scratch, keeping these limits in mind. Would be great to know what I can squeeze into specific ranges, instead of adding some average filtering. I mean, if already I create everything from scratch, then it would only make sense.

I JUST WANT THAT SHIZ TO SPIN! D x ...and push the limits to the limit (as long as it's not too destructive!). : P
Last edited by RobC on 20 Jun 2018, edited 3 times in total.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

19 Jun 2018

Those 16 and 24 pole digital filters are going to absolutely WRECK any finely tuned sound you’ve created.

The mastering engineer will have what’s called an elliptical EQ to help deal with issues that will effect tracking.
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

19 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
19 Jun 2018
Those 16 and 24 pole digital filters are going to absolutely WRECK any finely tuned sound you’ve created.

The mastering engineer will have what’s called an elliptical EQ to help deal with issues that will effect tracking.
What about FIR spectrum filters? They can be highly accurate, and even if the pre-echoing effect happens, that slide-up should rather be beneficial for the needle.

EDIT: I'd avoid creating unwanted frequencies as much as possible to begin with.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

19 Jun 2018

If you’ve got some vintage vinyl, and then pick up some of the new stuff coming out on heavy vinyl, you’ll notice a distinct increase in both stereo width as well as bass extension. Also, remember that records have an EXTREME cut in the bass along with a very large boost in treble, with the corresponding response in the RIAA preamp. This allows for a fuller bass than you would expect. You ARE correct that louder and more bass-driven tracks will take up more space on the record. I’ve heard of records for DJs where the single takes up an entire 12” platter
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

20 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
19 Jun 2018
If you’ve got some vintage vinyl, and then pick up some of the new stuff coming out on heavy vinyl, you’ll notice a distinct increase in both stereo width as well as bass extension. Also, remember that records have an EXTREME cut in the bass along with a very large boost in treble, with the corresponding response in the RIAA preamp. This allows for a fuller bass than you would expect. You ARE correct that louder and more bass-driven tracks will take up more space on the record. I’ve heard of records for DJs where the single takes up an entire 12” platter
Modern ones aren't easy to find here, but yeah, I'm still fascinated by how good songs like Ma' Baker, or Rapture sound.

I think there's hope with the new solo cuts, cause they indeed have better possibilities, even on smaller vinyls (since I rather keep between 2-3 mins, I guess I'm good).
True, the RIAA explains the heavy need for high frequency limiting. Sadly, bass still gets bummed. I was thinking, maybe bass instruments should be played with notes above 80 Hz, so just kicks eat something below that.

I'll add that to the OP, and the important fact, that near the end of the song, it's wise to rather keep things quiet, or try to keep in mind during arranging - especially for longer tracks.

...and that vinyl probably won't like gating that much, though if I use FIR equalization, again, it's pre-echoing artifacts and ringing will rather be pleasing for the groove.

I still hope, that with a lot of mid-side editing, we can somewhat have anything hard panned (even if it won't sound the same way after processing at all), cause I really like pushing the stereo field to its limits.

If I remember right, it's all about watching that the needle doesn't have to go too wide horizontally, and even less vertically.

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

21 Jun 2018

Surely there are more people who can't resist going vinyl?

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LABONERECORDINGS
RE Developer
Posts: 401
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: UK
Contact:

06 Aug 2018

https://www.dubstudio.co.uk/dubplates/g ... ub-is-made

Check these guys out, if you contact them they can totally help out with requirements and what should / shouldn't be done.

Seen this guy in action a few years ago (before they had their own Reaktor Ensemble tool which looks pretty neat), and he totally knows what's what when cutting dubplates and vinyls for today's artists and producers.

**ADDTIONAL NOTE HERE**

Free video of Henry "DubStudio" Bainbridge here explaining plenty http://digitallabz.co.uk/video-tutorials

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

22 Aug 2018

LABONERECORDINGS wrote:
06 Aug 2018
https://www.dubstudio.co.uk/dubplates/g ... ub-is-made

Check these guys out, if you contact them they can totally help out with requirements and what should / shouldn't be done.

Seen this guy in action a few years ago (before they had their own Reaktor Ensemble tool which looks pretty neat), and he totally knows what's what when cutting dubplates and vinyls for today's artists and producers.

**ADDTIONAL NOTE HERE**

Free video of Henry "DubStudio" Bainbridge here explaining plenty http://digitallabz.co.uk/video-tutorials
Thank you very much, I will look into these!

Suges
Posts: 13
Joined: 06 May 2017

22 Aug 2018

Most of my music came out on vinyl from 2000-2010. What I and my label-mates learned over those years was: just get a good vinyl-mastering guy haha. It's voodoo, mastering for vinyl. As creatives I think it's best for us just to focus on making good music and let the highly-trained engineers who've been doing this for 20 years do what *they're* good at. All they ask from you is a digital master that hasn't been "loudness maximized" in any way, shape, or form. Lots of headroom. Then they apply all their magic to make it sound good on vinyl. Noah Mintz was our guy.

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

22 Aug 2018

Suges wrote:
22 Aug 2018
Most of my music came out on vinyl from 2000-2010. What I and my label-mates learned over those years was: just get a good vinyl-mastering guy haha. It's voodoo, mastering for vinyl. As creatives I think it's best for us just to focus on making good music and let the highly-trained engineers who've been doing this for 20 years do what *they're* good at. All they ask from you is a digital master that hasn't been "loudness maximized" in any way, shape, or form. Lots of headroom. Then they apply all their magic to make it sound good on vinyl. Noah Mintz was our guy.
While I understand that point, I'm far more deeply into audio engineering, than the creative part. I mean, it's not like I'm not likewise passionate about writing music, but that's far more quickly done than recording/creating sounds, to the finishing engineering touches.
If I get directions, I can follow them, and since I create everything from scratch, why shouldn't I make use of what I can (see all the limitations), and not waste anything where it's gonna be removed anyway, by the time it would get onto vinyl.

If there's something what engineers don't want to share, then so be it, but I don't want to pay extra for engineering; otherwise, why did I learn it? But it's not just saving money, but working within limits and not wasting anything - as I said.

Suges
Posts: 13
Joined: 06 May 2017

29 Aug 2018

RobC wrote:
22 Aug 2018
Suges wrote:
22 Aug 2018
Most of my music came out on vinyl from 2000-2010. What I and my label-mates learned over those years was: just get a good vinyl-mastering guy haha. It's voodoo, mastering for vinyl. As creatives I think it's best for us just to focus on making good music and let the highly-trained engineers who've been doing this for 20 years do what *they're* good at. All they ask from you is a digital master that hasn't been "loudness maximized" in any way, shape, or form. Lots of headroom. Then they apply all their magic to make it sound good on vinyl. Noah Mintz was our guy.
While I understand that point, I'm far more deeply into audio engineering, than the creative part. I mean, it's not like I'm not likewise passionate about writing music, but that's far more quickly done than recording/creating sounds, to the finishing engineering touches.
If I get directions, I can follow them, and since I create everything from scratch, why shouldn't I make use of what I can (see all the limitations), and not waste anything where it's gonna be removed anyway, by the time it would get onto vinyl.

If there's something what engineers don't want to share, then so be it, but I don't want to pay extra for engineering; otherwise, why did I learn it? But it's not just saving money, but working within limits and not wasting anything - as I said.
You make sense what you're saying. It's my *belief* (based on nothing) they use black magic, tricks of the trade type things for vinyl. Things that change depending on the source material (I've seen them do different things depending on what they're hearing). Is it all for show to justify their cost? I'll never know. But if you want to really understand how it's done--you've got a passion for figuring that out---no one here can help you, unless one of us is a secret, highly-regarded vinyl masterer. You should go find a good one and pick his brain for as long as he'll let you!

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

30 Aug 2018

Suges wrote:
29 Aug 2018
RobC wrote:
22 Aug 2018


While I understand that point, I'm far more deeply into audio engineering, than the creative part. I mean, it's not like I'm not likewise passionate about writing music, but that's far more quickly done than recording/creating sounds, to the finishing engineering touches.
If I get directions, I can follow them, and since I create everything from scratch, why shouldn't I make use of what I can (see all the limitations), and not waste anything where it's gonna be removed anyway, by the time it would get onto vinyl.

If there's something what engineers don't want to share, then so be it, but I don't want to pay extra for engineering; otherwise, why did I learn it? But it's not just saving money, but working within limits and not wasting anything - as I said.
You make sense what you're saying. It's my *belief* (based on nothing) they use black magic, tricks of the trade type things for vinyl. Things that change depending on the source material (I've seen them do different things depending on what they're hearing). Is it all for show to justify their cost? I'll never know. But if you want to really understand how it's done--you've got a passion for figuring that out---no one here can help you, unless one of us is a secret, highly-regarded vinyl masterer. You should go find a good one and pick his brain for as long as he'll let you!
The thing is, I know a company that would take care of the vinyl, and at this point I'm like: I'll give it a try, tell them my purposes, and if they are willing to share, what limitations their tools have, what I should keep in mind when creating sounds, then we'll get to business. If not, then I won't bother with vinyl. I mean, it's a cool format, but I'm not willing to needlessly risk the sound beyond the given limitations, and even pay extra.

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platzangst
Posts: 728
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

02 Sep 2018

Most professional-level vinyl pressing plants will usually have a PDF or webpage with some general "dos and don'ts" for preparing your master recordings. A lot of people spend lots of time and effort to polish their masters up in order to maximize the eventual sound quality. Back in the day people got paid big bucks to use tricks acquired over decades to do this, which is one of the reasons a lot of early CD reissues weren't as good as they could have been - because they were dealing with tapes that had been tweaked for vinyl, and the flunkies copying old masters for quick CD reissues didn't always know how to untweak them.

On the other hand, back in 1991 a buddy and I recorded an EP's worth of music and released it as a 7" - the master tape was a chrome cassette, and each side was pushed to capacity with something like 8 minutes each side. (And, at what probably was more expense than should have been allotted to the project, it was pressed on color vinyl, possibly the first instance of "half-and-half" vinyl made. At least I'd never heard of such a thing at the time.) Now this is where I SHOULD be able to tell you that our little record sold like hotcakes despite all the mastering faux pas we made, but it flopped badly, so I don't remember what the point I was trying to make was...

Anyhow, if your vinyl place is any good, they ought to spot any serious mastering flaws in your recording before they even get to cutting the lacquer, and will inform you if there's a problem and how much it will cost to get their engineer(s) to fix it.

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

03 Sep 2018

platzangst wrote:
02 Sep 2018
Most professional-level vinyl pressing plants will usually have a PDF or webpage with some general "dos and don'ts" for preparing your master recordings. A lot of people spend lots of time and effort to polish their masters up in order to maximize the eventual sound quality. Back in the day people got paid big bucks to use tricks acquired over decades to do this, which is one of the reasons a lot of early CD reissues weren't as good as they could have been - because they were dealing with tapes that had been tweaked for vinyl, and the flunkies copying old masters for quick CD reissues didn't always know how to untweak them.

On the other hand, back in 1991 a buddy and I recorded an EP's worth of music and released it as a 7" - the master tape was a chrome cassette, and each side was pushed to capacity with something like 8 minutes each side. (And, at what probably was more expense than should have been allotted to the project, it was pressed on color vinyl, possibly the first instance of "half-and-half" vinyl made. At least I'd never heard of such a thing at the time.) Now this is where I SHOULD be able to tell you that our little record sold like hotcakes despite all the mastering faux pas we made, but it flopped badly, so I don't remember what the point I was trying to make was...

Anyhow, if your vinyl place is any good, they ought to spot any serious mastering flaws in your recording before they even get to cutting the lacquer, and will inform you if there's a problem and how much it will cost to get their engineer(s) to fix it.
I'd try to 'be like water', and adapt to the medium, I'd be working for. But like I said, since I have the skills to work by very precise directions, I don't really want other engineers to touch the material. All I would need to know is every limitation, and how it will sound - in a before-after fashion. That way I would know what to expect and nudge things accordingly. I'm not too excited about creating false bass and highs, just cause sub and treble gets cut back, for example, but then again, I'd do whatever sounds best.

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platzangst
Posts: 728
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

03 Sep 2018

RobC wrote:
03 Sep 2018

I'd try to 'be like water', and adapt to the medium, I'd be working for. But like I said, since I have the skills to work by very precise directions, I don't really want other engineers to touch the material. All I would need to know is every limitation, and how it will sound - in a before-after fashion. That way I would know what to expect and nudge things accordingly. I'm not too excited about creating false bass and highs, just cause sub and treble gets cut back, for example, but then again, I'd do whatever sounds best.
I think your opening post details most of the things to look out for, but beyond that, "knowing how it will sound" is going to be nigh-impossible without experience.

Here's the thing about vinyl: there's a whole variety of steps where the sound can possibly be changed from the original.

Your master, assuming nobody at the plant finds any glaring problems, will be played into a lacquer cutter. A lot of plants use raw digital files played through a computer or dedicated digital machine, and of the higher resolution the better, but I've heard of some that want CD-Audio on actual CDs. So if you need to resample, there's that issue.

Some lacquer cutters are the standard lathes that cut into a layer of soft lacquer on an aluminum plate, but there are DMM (Direct Metal Mastering) machines that cut into a soft copper material. The latter is supposedly much better at reproducing high frequencies as well as being able to comfortably fit more time onto a side, but people argue about whether the sound quality is an improvement over standard lacquer cutting.

Sometimes the lacquer is cut by a skilled engineer or technician with decades of experience, sometimes it's cut by a computerized system that scans your master file to anticipate the way to control the lathe, sometimes it's done by an enthusiastic newcomer.

This master disc will be electroplated with nickel, and that plating can be used directly to make a stamper, OR coated further to make "mothers" that then make stampers - because stampers deteriorate as they are used, and eventually will wear out. This isn't an issue if you intend to press maybe 500-1000 copies max, but if you're a major label that's going to crank out 50,000 copies it is an issue. Each step in the plating process adds a small level of sound erosion, as does the physical process of stamping (the first copy pressed by a stamper is likely to be slightly better sound quality than the last disc that stamper makes).

There can be issues with the vinyl material itself. Some colored vinyl can have a greater background noise to it than standard black. The cellulose that makes up a standard lacquer coating is susceptible to being eaten by bacteria and making microscopic pits in the material, which can add to that noise if there's a significant delay between cutting your disc and electroplating it (usually not a concern with plants that have their cutting machines on site, but if you want that freelance cutting engineer with the great rep there will be shipping time and expense involved).

THEN, assuming everything at the pressing plant has gone as good as it can possibly go, and you hold a fresh copy of your pressing in your hands (pay for a test pressing, folks), there's the issue of what kind of equipment you play it back on.

Let's assume that you aren't playing it back on a cheap Crosley or one of these other bargain-basement record players that have sprung up due to the vinyl resurgence - even high-quality equipment varies. Not everyone will be able to afford the fifteen-grand turntable that uses a laser to track the grooves, so it comes down to what sort of stylus the turntable has. You can spend a lot of money to get a stylus that has the best possible frequency range. Not everyone does. And what's going to happen is that any high frequencies on the record that are above your stylus' upper limit are going to get distorted, sort of like bad sibilance on vocals.

Making the same record at different plants may get you different results. So with all that, there's so much possible variation that you can't really "know" how a vinyl record will sound until you're actually playing it on your own turntable and even then that won't tell you how it will sound to everyone else.

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

04 Sep 2018

platzangst wrote:
03 Sep 2018
RobC wrote:
03 Sep 2018

I'd try to 'be like water', and adapt to the medium, I'd be working for. But like I said, since I have the skills to work by very precise directions, I don't really want other engineers to touch the material. All I would need to know is every limitation, and how it will sound - in a before-after fashion. That way I would know what to expect and nudge things accordingly. I'm not too excited about creating false bass and highs, just cause sub and treble gets cut back, for example, but then again, I'd do whatever sounds best.
I think your opening post details most of the things to look out for, but beyond that, "knowing how it will sound" is going to be nigh-impossible without experience.

Here's the thing about vinyl: there's a whole variety of steps where the sound can possibly be changed from the original.

Your master, assuming nobody at the plant finds any glaring problems, will be played into a lacquer cutter. A lot of plants use raw digital files played through a computer or dedicated digital machine, and of the higher resolution the better, but I've heard of some that want CD-Audio on actual CDs. So if you need to resample, there's that issue.

Some lacquer cutters are the standard lathes that cut into a layer of soft lacquer on an aluminum plate, but there are DMM (Direct Metal Mastering) machines that cut into a soft copper material. The latter is supposedly much better at reproducing high frequencies as well as being able to comfortably fit more time onto a side, but people argue about whether the sound quality is an improvement over standard lacquer cutting.

Sometimes the lacquer is cut by a skilled engineer or technician with decades of experience, sometimes it's cut by a computerized system that scans your master file to anticipate the way to control the lathe, sometimes it's done by an enthusiastic newcomer.

This master disc will be electroplated with nickel, and that plating can be used directly to make a stamper, OR coated further to make "mothers" that then make stampers - because stampers deteriorate as they are used, and eventually will wear out. This isn't an issue if you intend to press maybe 500-1000 copies max, but if you're a major label that's going to crank out 50,000 copies it is an issue. Each step in the plating process adds a small level of sound erosion, as does the physical process of stamping (the first copy pressed by a stamper is likely to be slightly better sound quality than the last disc that stamper makes).

There can be issues with the vinyl material itself. Some colored vinyl can have a greater background noise to it than standard black. The cellulose that makes up a standard lacquer coating is susceptible to being eaten by bacteria and making microscopic pits in the material, which can add to that noise if there's a significant delay between cutting your disc and electroplating it (usually not a concern with plants that have their cutting machines on site, but if you want that freelance cutting engineer with the great rep there will be shipping time and expense involved).

THEN, assuming everything at the pressing plant has gone as good as it can possibly go, and you hold a fresh copy of your pressing in your hands (pay for a test pressing, folks), there's the issue of what kind of equipment you play it back on.

Let's assume that you aren't playing it back on a cheap Crosley or one of these other bargain-basement record players that have sprung up due to the vinyl resurgence - even high-quality equipment varies. Not everyone will be able to afford the fifteen-grand turntable that uses a laser to track the grooves, so it comes down to what sort of stylus the turntable has. You can spend a lot of money to get a stylus that has the best possible frequency range. Not everyone does. And what's going to happen is that any high frequencies on the record that are above your stylus' upper limit are going to get distorted, sort of like bad sibilance on vocals.

Making the same record at different plants may get you different results. So with all that, there's so much possible variation that you can't really "know" how a vinyl record will sound until you're actually playing it on your own turntable and even then that won't tell you how it will sound to everyone else.
Actually, this is a more modern technology, where they cut one-timer vinyls directly. They say it's more playback durable and challenges the audio quality of the traditional pressed discs. Thus, they can make test cuts, and send an audio sample, recorded with their high quality devices.
It's been a while since I last checked them, so I gotta find them again, and see if the company still lives, heh.

My purposes would be, obviously the magic of vinyls, authentic needle drop recordings, and the challenge to suit every single sound for the medium. Later on, if I can get somewhere with music (more likely on my own), with the help of a patreon-like system, such one-timer vinyls would make a great reward for supporters.

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platzangst
Posts: 728
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

04 Sep 2018

RobC wrote:
04 Sep 2018
Actually, this is a more modern technology, where they cut one-timer vinyls directly. They say it's more playback durable and challenges the audio quality of the traditional pressed discs. Thus, they can make test cuts, and send an audio sample, recorded with their high quality devices.
It's been a while since I last checked them, so I gotta find them again, and see if the company still lives, heh.

My purposes would be, obviously the magic of vinyls, authentic needle drop recordings, and the challenge to suit every single sound for the medium. Later on, if I can get somewhere with music (more likely on my own), with the help of a patreon-like system, such one-timer vinyls would make a great reward for supporters.
Well, that would be interesting if true. However, you want to be careful you're not just buying a dubplate or lathe (or at least be aware of it if you are). I know there's been rumors/buzz about devices that turn normal turntables into vinyl cutters, but last I heard nothing had gotten to prime time, so to speak, so what usually gets offered for "one-off" recordings are:

Dubplates - basically cutting a master lacquer disc and just playing that instead of turning it into stampers. As direct from master to record as you can get, but not very durable. Only good for a few plays before they start to wear out.

Lathes - someone takes a piece of harder plastic and runs it through a cutting machine. More durable, but the hardness of the plastic impacts the sound quality. and there's a wide variety of people offering lathes with differing skills and equipment levels. Probably mono recordings only.

Now, if someone's managed to bridge the gap between those two things, that'd be great, but I'd want to maybe find a sample product if possible before I spend a lot of money to do something like this.

EDIT, 9-5-18:

Out of curiosity, I went looking myself, and my guess is that you probably were thinking of this outfit:

https://www.littleelephantlathecuts.com/

They seem to touch some of the same points you were talking about in quality, so it looks like they're lathes, but lathes above and beyond the average quality of lathes I've seen elsewhere.

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

06 Sep 2018

platzangst wrote:
04 Sep 2018
RobC wrote:
04 Sep 2018
Actually, this is a more modern technology, where they cut one-timer vinyls directly. They say it's more playback durable and challenges the audio quality of the traditional pressed discs. Thus, they can make test cuts, and send an audio sample, recorded with their high quality devices.
It's been a while since I last checked them, so I gotta find them again, and see if the company still lives, heh.

My purposes would be, obviously the magic of vinyls, authentic needle drop recordings, and the challenge to suit every single sound for the medium. Later on, if I can get somewhere with music (more likely on my own), with the help of a patreon-like system, such one-timer vinyls would make a great reward for supporters.
Well, that would be interesting if true. However, you want to be careful you're not just buying a dubplate or lathe (or at least be aware of it if you are). I know there's been rumors/buzz about devices that turn normal turntables into vinyl cutters, but last I heard nothing had gotten to prime time, so to speak, so what usually gets offered for "one-off" recordings are:

Dubplates - basically cutting a master lacquer disc and just playing that instead of turning it into stampers. As direct from master to record as you can get, but not very durable. Only good for a few plays before they start to wear out.

Lathes - someone takes a piece of harder plastic and runs it through a cutting machine. More durable, but the hardness of the plastic impacts the sound quality. and there's a wide variety of people offering lathes with differing skills and equipment levels. Probably mono recordings only.

Now, if someone's managed to bridge the gap between those two things, that'd be great, but I'd want to maybe find a sample product if possible before I spend a lot of money to do something like this.

EDIT, 9-5-18:

Out of curiosity, I went looking myself, and my guess is that you probably were thinking of this outfit:

https://www.littleelephantlathecuts.com/

They seem to touch some of the same points you were talking about in quality, so it looks like they're lathes, but lathes above and beyond the average quality of lathes I've seen elsewhere.
Nah, I remember they clearly said it's not a dubplate. That's why I said that they mentioned these one-time true vinyls sounding just as good as pressed vinyls and being more durable. Also, these are stereo, and when I saw, they weren't overly expensive.
I checked that website, but that still is just a short run - these on the other hand beat the durability of even pressed records. Now, whether they count as lathes or not, I can't confirm right away. Plus I still need to dig up their name, cause I forgot. >_< But yeah, these might just fill in that gap.

jlgrimes
Posts: 661
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

17 Sep 2018

I'm sure Vinyl kept engineers on their toes back in the day though as their mixes had to be very on point to keep the record from sounding horrible.

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

18 Sep 2018

jlgrimes wrote:
17 Sep 2018
I'm sure Vinyl kept engineers on their toes back in the day though as their mixes had to be very on point to keep the record from sounding horrible.
I learned a lot from analyzing the whole process, practicing and preparing alone - mostly learned things we should definitely not do. That's how I left the loudness war. : ) It kind of teaches with something like discipline. Forces one to respect some physical rules that can be broken in the digital world. Sadly, it's mostly broken for the worse.

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