Everyday Ideas

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normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

22 Jun 2018

RobC wrote:
22 Jun 2018
normen wrote:
21 Jun 2018

See you could have avoided that by simply supplying the source of your experience - meaning your project file or the bounce with and without your technique.
I'm getting closer with setting the rest of my system up ~ \o/ so I'm slowly getting there.
Then again, I wouldn't have thought about (even if it's obvious) that it's not a bad idea for the mix to make some band splits, phase inversions, so some instruments cancel out important frequencies a bit less. And the other thought that I shouldn't forget, that sound design rules don't just apply when generating the sound, but from start to finish; gotta make use of it (all of it, whenever it's useful).
No I mean confusing other people, making the discussion with them pointless. That you could avoid by making examples for your ideas. Some band splits and phase inversions are easily done in Reason - so PLEASE make some examples or at least audio files so we know what you‘re talking about.

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

22 Jun 2018

normen wrote:
22 Jun 2018
RobC wrote:
22 Jun 2018


I'm getting closer with setting the rest of my system up ~ \o/ so I'm slowly getting there.
Then again, I wouldn't have thought about (even if it's obvious) that it's not a bad idea for the mix to make some band splits, phase inversions, so some instruments cancel out important frequencies a bit less. And the other thought that I shouldn't forget, that sound design rules don't just apply when generating the sound, but from start to finish; gotta make use of it (all of it, whenever it's useful).
No I mean confusing other people, making the discussion with them pointless. That you could avoid by making examples for your ideas. Some band splits and phase inversions are easily done in Reason - so PLEASE make some examples or at least audio files so we know what you‘re talking about.
I will, including the next thought.

Which is about sound design. OCD way. Where I would take inspiration from classical music. And design sounds like pizzicatos, staccatos, marcatos, where I would create the required characteristics, but keeping it within lengths, such as 1/16th, 1/8th, and 1/4th. Here I will have to prove a point, that the programmed, almost gated perfection can have a huge benefit and interesting sound to it.

But yeah, I get it, not without examples. But I can take a note, so I don't forget, can't I? Just shouldn't pile them all up.

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

30 Jun 2018

Wanted to use another word, but site rules, so:
Blessed plants take away a lot of free time, thus I can mostly just think.

It's definitely next generation thinking, so people who go for realism, probably still don't like the idea. The whole thing stands currently here: setting equalization close to constant-energy sine waves; then setting the loudness of the given sound to the same as a -15 LUFS pink noise sample, then adding multi-band soft clipping for anything that goes over that limit, as well as a merged soft clipping, if there still is something that would clip out. Pretty artificial/standardizing, that barely has a human touch to it <-> but what does it matter if every hearing is so different? When it comes to more manual settings, every person would add the amount of equalization and soft clipping that fits their ears.
Clearly, no setting fits everyone, not even a standard; but at least if there 'is' a standard, then there could be some consistency.

Of course, this theory needs testing. When I get the time... X_X

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

01 Jul 2018

Somewhere above 5120 Hz would trigger sidechain compression for high frequency limiting. For more transparency, I would compress the track reversed. I would set the compressor while listening to what's going on above the given frequency, so that heavily sibilant sounds are more close to the average ~ mostly in vocals' case.

Tons of plants waiting...

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

03 Jul 2018

The good thing about creating your own synths is, that you can use them in more than just one way.
I will probably make use of every synth's lower notes, to give some impact for bass, where ever I want some more unique macro dynamics for it in the arrangement.

Of course, this calls for creativity! Who says, you can't bring your bass to higher notes, even if some time stretching is needed! Or bringing that hat several octaves down to make some interesting characteristics for the kick ~ even if for just 1 hit throughout the song.

It's all so obvious, yet we pretty much never make use of it to the maximum... xD

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normen
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03 Jul 2018

Still missing those examples :(

Right now you remind me of the director who wanted different sines coming from all loundspeakers in the theater and then sitting in front of one speaker he said „can you put a bit more bass on this one?“ I told him I could either make that sine louder or more silent.

RobC
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03 Jul 2018

normen wrote:
03 Jul 2018
Still missing those examples :(

Right now you remind me of the director who wanted different sines coming from all loundspeakers in the theater and then sitting in front of one speaker he said „can you put a bit more bass on this one?“ I told him I could either make that sine louder or more silent.
Plants won't wait; ideas can get forgotten.

That said, yes, one can just play those specific notes back louder, but if the impact is created by different sounds with unique characteristics playing the same thing together, and from different directions, then the result can be much more interesting. The only thing that would be managed by a single sine wave, would be sub bass below 80 Hz.

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

04 Jul 2018

This standard idea inspired something else:
Say, we make the usual example, a sine wave kick drum. Simple static sine wave, where we set an envelope for pitch. No true dynamics there yet. We probably would hear it pretty loud, so if we set its loudness according to that reference -15 LUFS sound, there will be plenty of headroom left. That would be the time to add the dynamics in an expander fashion. We could add as much as soft clipping can tolerate ~ so that we don't hear unwanted distortion and that the sound doesn't get perceived louder than the -15 LUFS reference. So the expanding would rather create a spiky decay. OR we could slowly start adding a decay, but also raising the sounds audio levels with it, if preferred.

If we have some standard limitation, this way we could maximally use our dynamic headroom.

Theory. Needs testing.
"Testing is the future, and the future starts with you!" xD

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normen
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04 Jul 2018

Sounds like you're simply describing "creating a bass drum". Who DOESN'T add an amp envelope (that's what you call "dynamics in expander fashion") to a bass drum? The two steps you describe make 60s space-guns (pew-pew), not bass drums - the envelope is an essential part of a bass drum :lol:

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

04 Jul 2018

normen wrote:
04 Jul 2018
Sounds like you're simply describing "creating a bass drum". Who DOESN'T add an amp envelope (that's what you call "dynamics in expander fashion") to a bass drum? The two steps you describe make 60s space-guns (pew-pew), not bass drums - the envelope is an essential part of a bass drum :lol:
The point was using headroom for creating dynamics, maximally within a set limit for any sound. In other words, designing the sound within those limits, instead of being surprised that the original kick drum may sound pretty bad after adjusting for a standard.

As for the kick, the end result would contain both pitch change as well as amplitude change.

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

07 Jul 2018

Remember, I'm all about sampling your own sounds, since it opens possibilities that can get tricky to render live.

While taking out weed around my plants, I've been thinking about some real instruments and got inspired by the fact that other strings inside a piano, quietly resonate a bit when we hit a key. That sounds really interesting, so why not do the same with synths?
Earlier, I also had the idea, inspired by the Bartók Pizzicato, cause sometimes it sounds like there's a bit of delay between when the strings slap the bass' neck. Generally, multiplies the played note, where the multiplied ones have random timing and pitch.

P.S.:

Image

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normen
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07 Jul 2018

RobC wrote:
07 Jul 2018
Image
I never understood that quote. Should we be like "Okay, I'm sure you won't find it nice that this flood wave is rolling towards you so I won't mention that".

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

07 Jul 2018

normen wrote:
07 Jul 2018
RobC wrote:
07 Jul 2018
Image
I never understood that quote. Should we be like "Okay, I'm sure you won't find it nice that this flood wave is rolling towards you so I won't mention that".
No, but Bambi already knew he was kinda' wobbly. While it may come in handy when dancing at a dubstep party, it would be more polite if Thumper would rather help him learn walking less wobbly.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

07 Jul 2018

RobC wrote:
20 Jun 2018
normen wrote:
20 Jun 2018


Yes, yes, doing everything properly but still knowing you'll kick a lot of it. I mean that's what Funk is, songs without all the music ;)
But there would still be a full version, this is just something for the unforgiving internet.
The internet listens to my 6 minute songs.

Good songs draw the listener in, grab them and don’t let them go until you’re done with them.
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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normen
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015

07 Jul 2018

RobC wrote:
07 Jul 2018
normen wrote:
07 Jul 2018


I never understood that quote. Should we be like "Okay, I'm sure you won't find it nice that this flood wave is rolling towards you so I won't mention that".
No, but Bambi already knew he was kinda' wobbly. While it may come in handy when dancing at a dubstep party, it would be more polite if Thumper would rather help him learn walking less wobbly.
I guess as I am pretty much the only one answering (and Selig is the dictionary example for polite) that this is directed at me then.

See, you can interpret what I write in pretty much any way you like. I can do the same. You can decide for yourself - completely off any "facts" that might exist - if this is me making fun of you and you just trying to grab attention or if it's me waiting for a way to actually help you with your experiments and you just being too confused to actually reach out. I can also decide for either of these and no matter what "really" happened - that will be the world I lived in.

So yeah, I guess this is as polite as I get if you want to make it about me :)

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TheGodOfRainbows
Posts: 640
Joined: 31 Mar 2015

07 Jul 2018

I am so lost in the minutia of both the technical and interpersonal aspects of this thread, as is often the case for me. Can y'all summarize RobC's primary points so far?

I know it has to do with synthesizing percussion or kick drums, and the inherent sound design aspects. I'm intrigued but not always able to follow Robs train of thought.

For all my musical projects thus far, I've always tried to include some creative sound design elements, including generating and manipulating percussion sounds starting with whatever synth or instrument or sample I have at hand.

However, I still often dont know what I'm doing or why it sounds the way it does, hence my interest in this thread. I still need better understanding of these principles.


Norman, speaking of 60's pew pew sounds, I'm using that technique for some sound design flavors in my current project that includes laser sounds and whatnot. As simple as it is to create that sound, I never tire of it, though it may be cheesy. :geek: :mrgreen:

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normen
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015

08 Jul 2018

TheGodOfRainbows wrote:
07 Jul 2018
Can y'all summarize RobC's primary points so far?
Nope, thats the main issue. He doesn‘t make sense to me at all and doesn‘t want to either explain or give examples for what he means.

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

08 Jul 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
07 Jul 2018
RobC wrote:
20 Jun 2018


But there would still be a full version, this is just something for the unforgiving internet.
The internet listens to my 6 minute songs.

Good songs draw the listener in, grab them and don’t let them go until you’re done with them.
Your fans probably do, but randoms, the traffic, is very different (in my experience at least). I don't doubt it though, if your view statistics show that every viewer of yours listens the whole 6 minutes in average, that's performing very well.

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

08 Jul 2018

normen wrote:
07 Jul 2018
RobC wrote:
07 Jul 2018


No, but Bambi already knew he was kinda' wobbly. While it may come in handy when dancing at a dubstep party, it would be more polite if Thumper would rather help him learn walking less wobbly.
I guess as I am pretty much the only one answering (and Selig is the dictionary example for polite) that this is directed at me then.

See, you can interpret what I write in pretty much any way you like. I can do the same. You can decide for yourself - completely off any "facts" that might exist - if this is me making fun of you and you just trying to grab attention or if it's me waiting for a way to actually help you with your experiments and you just being too confused to actually reach out. I can also decide for either of these and no matter what "really" happened - that will be the world I lived in.

So yeah, I guess this is as polite as I get if you want to make it about me :)
Any people made remarks on here towards me, before, so it's a general statement at the same time.

I understand, but you many times come off as making a fool out of people. Even if it's not your intent. Sometimes your sarcasm can be so harsh, it's like trolling; other times, you ridicule people (for example when and 'how' you talked about your clients in a mastering thread ~ see, it can be that there's a lot of work with what audio material they trust you with, but they also pay you for it, and buy your service, cause obviously they can't achieve the sound they want, otherwise they wouldn't hire you). It's disrespectful, to say the least.

Like I said, I experienced it from others before, too, and it's pretty much crippling that I have to swallow everything, since I have to rely on other people for finding information, a solution, but most importantly, inspiration.
However, maybe it's truly better not to communicate, if it goes like that. When I was a kid, I imagined, adults are perfectly civilized beings, while truth is, they just did the best they could to hide childish behavior from children.

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

08 Jul 2018

TheGodOfRainbows wrote:
07 Jul 2018
I am so lost in the minutia of both the technical and interpersonal aspects of this thread, as is often the case for me. Can y'all summarize RobC's primary points so far?

I know it has to do with synthesizing percussion or kick drums, and the inherent sound design aspects. I'm intrigued but not always able to follow Robs train of thought.

For all my musical projects thus far, I've always tried to include some creative sound design elements, including generating and manipulating percussion sounds starting with whatever synth or instrument or sample I have at hand.

However, I still often dont know what I'm doing or why it sounds the way it does, hence my interest in this thread. I still need better understanding of these principles.


Norman, speaking of 60's pew pew sounds, I'm using that technique for some sound design flavors in my current project that includes laser sounds and whatnot. As simple as it is to create that sound, I never tire of it, though it may be cheesy. :geek: :mrgreen:
At least, I can create any sound I imagine and shape it the way I want it to sound. I can 'feel/see' how synthesizers/synthesis in general.

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

08 Jul 2018

normen wrote:
08 Jul 2018
TheGodOfRainbows wrote:
07 Jul 2018
Can y'all summarize RobC's primary points so far?
Nope, thats the main issue. He doesn‘t make sense to me at all and doesn‘t want to either explain or give examples for what he means.
I pretty much said it before, that I collect ideas here:

- so I don't forget them
~ stay motivated to work them later out, inspired by any interest from people
- that people start discussing, then some new idea pops up from that, too

I also said it, that I'm very busy at the moment, so I can just hop in for a few comments.
I had no time to even use Reason for more than half an hour total in the past weeks, and even that went on setting my system up.

Patience?

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normen
Posts: 3431
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

08 Jul 2018

RobC wrote:
08 Jul 2018
I understand, but you many times come off as making a fool out of people. Even if it's not your intent. Sometimes your sarcasm can be so harsh, it's like trolling; other times, you ridicule people (for example when and 'how' you talked about your clients in a mastering thread ~ see, it can be that there's a lot of work with what audio material they trust you with, but they also pay you for it, and buy your service, cause obviously they can't achieve the sound they want, otherwise they wouldn't hire you). It's disrespectful, to say the least.
I don't think you're seeing that from my perspective I am stating simple truths and am completely honest while people give me crap for that. You're dishonest to say the least - just admit that you like the position you maneuver yourself into.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

08 Jul 2018

RobC wrote:
08 Jul 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
07 Jul 2018


The internet listens to my 6 minute songs.

Good songs draw the listener in, grab them and don’t let them go until you’re done with them.
Your fans probably do, but randoms, the traffic, is very different (in my experience at least). I don't doubt it though, if your view statistics show that every viewer of yours listens the whole 6 minutes in average, that's performing very well.
I’ve never thought to collect metrics on “number of views/listens” and compare them to “length of time spent on site”.... and my guess is that you would be correct in assuming that for a 20 minute video with 25,000 views that there are plenty of people that never saw the ending (or even middle!). The point is an interesting one, but (at least for me) has no tangible “fix”...in other words I cannot think of a way to FORCE people to listen to an entire song or watch an entire video. The only solution that I can devise is to have the very best content possible. Write songs that people love, make videos that have a point and still entertain.

Anyone with a better idea PLEASE share it with me as I’m always seeking to expand my audience. I am once again shopping an album to labels for release....which I haven’t done for quite some time, and nowadays influencer status on social media is worth at least as much as your music!
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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jam-s
Posts: 3035
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany
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09 Jul 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
08 Jul 2018
I’ve never thought to collect metrics on “number of views/listens” and compare them to “length of time spent on site”.... and my guess is that you would be correct in assuming that for a 20 minute video with 25,000 views that there are plenty of people that never saw the ending (or even middle!). The point is an interesting one, but (at least for me) has no tangible “fix”...in other words I cannot think of a way to FORCE people to listen to an entire song or watch an entire video. The only solution that I can devise is to have the very best content possible. Write songs that people love, make videos that have a point and still entertain.

Anyone with a better idea PLEASE share it with me as I’m always seeking to expand my audience. I am once again shopping an album to labels for release....which I haven’t done for quite some time, and nowadays influencer status on social media is worth at least as much as your music!
I wonder if the aim of getting a very high "viewed it all" ratio is even feasible. As by optimising for this you would be optimising to try to please all. But this imho is impossible as musical preference is vastly diverse among the population of the worlds different cultures and individuals. I think it would be better to optimise for people to come back to to your work again and again and wait for new releases. Sure to monetize some stuff a stupid catchy song that gets viral is the jackpot, but there you're quite into a competition with the legion of cat content and fail/win compilations.

RobC
Posts: 1833
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

10 Jul 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
08 Jul 2018
RobC wrote:
08 Jul 2018


Your fans probably do, but randoms, the traffic, is very different (in my experience at least). I don't doubt it though, if your view statistics show that every viewer of yours listens the whole 6 minutes in average, that's performing very well.
I’ve never thought to collect metrics on “number of views/listens” and compare them to “length of time spent on site”.... and my guess is that you would be correct in assuming that for a 20 minute video with 25,000 views that there are plenty of people that never saw the ending (or even middle!). The point is an interesting one, but (at least for me) has no tangible “fix”...in other words I cannot think of a way to FORCE people to listen to an entire song or watch an entire video. The only solution that I can devise is to have the very best content possible. Write songs that people love, make videos that have a point and still entertain.

Anyone with a better idea PLEASE share it with me as I’m always seeking to expand my audience. I am once again shopping an album to labels for release....which I haven’t done for quite some time, and nowadays influencer status on social media is worth at least as much as your music!
I'll leave sharing ideas to the professionals for now.

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