Question about Vocal Production

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Nerveclinic
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02 May 2018

I have a question concerning vocal recording and I would appreciate any insights.

Generally I finish all the musical parts to a song first, then I add vocals. The issue I am running into is CPU. With a lot of my songs, at the point I am finishing, even without vocals, I am pushing the envelope on the CPU.

So I have an idea and I want to run it by the community first to see if it's a viable solution before I waste a lot of time trying it.

1) Finish the song without vocals.

2) Make a high quality .aif recording of the finished song.

3) Import that file in to a brand new song template.

4) Add vocal tracks

Is this a reasonable way to add vocals or will there be sound issues?

If you do it this way, should you leave the finished track unmastered? and add vocals to the unmastered version? Then do a final master? Or is it ok to import the mastered .aif file and add vocals to that.

I would greatly appreciate it if only people who confidently know the answer respond (i.e. they have tried this), rather then people guessing or conjecturing.

I realize another option is once the song is done, (without vocals) I could bounce the instrument tracks to help with CPU. That method is a lot More time consuming and cumbersome so I am throwing this method out as an alternative.

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selig
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02 May 2018

This is a good approach IMO.

Advantages are you can lower the buffer when adding vocals to the bounced instrumental track so that latency isn’t an issue.

For the way I like to work, I’d add one additional stage, which would be to import the vocals back into the original track once finished. Then you can crank the buffer way up to handle the higher CPU load because latency is no longer a problem when mixing, and you can mix your entire track instead of hoping the vocals will blend with the instrumental track.


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QVprod
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02 May 2018

Yes that workflow is common. I assume you mean mixing instead of mastering? You wouldn't master an unfinished song (unfinished because of vocals in this case). Agreed with selig in importing the vocals back into the original song. I find that my instrumental mixes generally get adjusted a bit once I add vocals so I don't mix vocals to a stereo file when avoidable.

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Nerveclinic
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02 May 2018

selig wrote:
02 May 2018
This is a good approach IMO.

Advantages are you can lower the buffer when adding vocals to the bounced instrumental track so that latency isn’t an issue.

For the way I like to work, I’d add one additional stage, which would be to import the vocals back into the original track once finished. Then you can crank the buffer way up to handle the higher CPU load because latency is no longer a problem when mixing, and you can mix your entire track instead of hoping the vocals will blend with the instrumental track.


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Excellent solution to import back into the original song. Thanks for that idea.

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Nerveclinic
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02 May 2018

QVprod wrote:
02 May 2018
Yes that workflow is common. I assume you mean mixing instead of mastering? You wouldn't master an unfinished song (unfinished because of vocals in this case). Agreed with selig in importing the vocals back into the original song. I find that my instrumental mixes generally get adjusted a bit once I add vocals so I don't mix vocals to a stereo file when avoidable.
I actually meant mastering, but after reading your response I see why that would not be a good idea.

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adfielding
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03 May 2018

That's exactly how I used to work - instrumental first, bounce it, record vocals over the top of it, then bring the vocals back into the original mix. Initially this was out of necessity back when Reason didn't have audio tracks (I'd record the vocals in Cubase, Recycle them, and bring them back into Reason for mixing), but focussing on the instrumental first can be useful because you might find yourself relying less heavily on the vocals as a compositional crux... not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that, mind!

Nowadays I tend to add vocals while I go, but there is definitely something to be said for separating the processes I think.

jimmyklane
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Joined: 16 Apr 2018

03 May 2018

adfielding wrote:
03 May 2018
That's exactly how I used to work - instrumental first, bounce it, record vocals over the top of it, then bring the vocals back into the original mix. Initially this was out of necessity back when Reason didn't have audio tracks (I'd record the vocals in Cubase, Recycle them, and bring them back into Reason for mixing), but focussing on the instrumental first can be useful because you might find yourself relying less heavily on the vocals as a compositional crux... not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that, mind!

Nowadays I tend to add vocals while I go, but there is definitely something to be said for separating the processes I think.
Vocals are the underpinning and overarching necessity of most musical genres. Even many EDM/electronic music tracks have vocal samples in them....that is just what the human in us connects with, IMO.
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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Nerveclinic
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03 May 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
03 May 2018
Vocals are the underpinning and overarching necessity of most musical genres. Even many EDM/electronic music tracks have vocal samples in them....that is just what the human in us connects with, IMO.
Yes that is true for most genres of popular music, but 80% of the area I work in don't have any vocals, or they are minimal. (Techno/ Dark Techno/ Industrial Techno/Dark Wave)

I have 40 songs on soundcloud and only one track has vocals.

Not only do techno audiences not need vocals, to some degree they actually resent them when they show up. That said I am aiming to branch out into some new arenas and I am definitely in no way in a cookie cutter techno trend. Just making the point not all styles of electronic music favor vocals.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

03 May 2018

To the OP: are you familiar with the tricks and techniques in producing quality vocals? Do you have a tight room that you can produce them in (or something like the sE reflection filter) so that you can add effects later to a dead track?

Edit: this sounds snobby....totally didn’t mean it that way!
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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Nerveclinic
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08 May 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
03 May 2018
To the OP: are you familiar with the tricks and techniques in producing quality vocals? Do you have a tight room that you can produce them in (or something like the sE reflection filter) so that you can add effects later to a dead track?

Edit: this sounds snobby....totally didn’t mean it that way!
LOL I didn't take it as snobby. So first of all I built a sound box, one of these mini ones with a good size plastic storage tub from Ikea then the inside is filled with sound proofing foam, and the mic sits in the middle. Otherwise no, my environment is not ideal for vocals. Point 2, I don't need super clean, pristine vocals, in fact I go out of my way to avoid that with effects, so my already dirty effects make the sound more forgiving of the room drawbacks, especially with the foam box also helping. I am going for an Industrial music/Dark techno sound anyway and you don't want clean for that.

Now as far as effects go, I use a lot, and I use them during recording. One school of thought may be to record dry and add effects in post production. The problem with that is that the effects actually change the way that I sing. I need to hear what the effects are going to do while I am singing, or I will never get the vocals right because the dry track vocal will not be right for the effect I am trying to achieve. Not sure if that makes sense to everyone but it does to me, I change vocal inflection to achieve a particular sound with the effects. I suspect this is something very different then what most vocalists would need, but I am not doing traditional vocals.

Here is a link to my only song with vocals on it. I am pretty happy with how they turned out. This is in a crappy apartment room, with the mic in the sound deadening box I was talking about.


jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

08 May 2018

Nerveclinic wrote:
08 May 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
03 May 2018
To the OP: are you familiar with the tricks and techniques in producing quality vocals? Do you have a tight room that you can produce them in (or something like the sE reflection filter) so that you can add effects later to a dead track?

Edit: this sounds snobby....totally didn’t mean it that way!
LOL I didn't take it as snobby. So first of all I built a sound box, one of these mini ones with a good size plastic storage tub from Ikea then the inside is filled with sound proofing foam, and the mic sits in the middle. Otherwise no, my environment is not ideal for vocals. Point 2, I don't need super clean, pristine vocals, in fact I go out of my way to avoid that with effects, so my already dirty effects make the sound more forgiving of the room drawbacks, especially with the foam box also helping. I am going for an Industrial music/Dark techno sound anyway and you don't want clean for that.

Now as far as effects go, I use a lot, and I use them during recording. One school of thought may be to record dry and add effects in post production. The problem with that is that the effects actually change the way that I sing. I need to hear what the effects are going to do while I am singing, or I will never get the vocals right because the dry track vocal will not be right for the effect I am trying to achieve. Not sure if that makes sense to everyone but it does to me, I change vocal inflection to achieve a particular sound with the effects. I suspect this is something very different then what most vocalists would need, but I am not doing traditional vocals.

Here is a link to my only song with vocals on it. I am pretty happy with how they turned out. This is in a crappy apartment room, with the mic in the sound deadening box I was talking about.

I haven’t yet heard the track, but promise to check it out later today. In fact, your approach was far more common (minus the homemade reflection filter) back before the 70’s ethos of “record everything super tight and dry” began and the advent of digital effects in the 80’s. Similar to a guitarist or synthesist playing into pedals, you simply need to play to the track as the track is going to sound. I’ve recorded guitarists whose technique actually goes out the window attempting to play a “distorted” part while hearing nothing but a dry DI’ed guitar.

I myself play synths with lots of knobs that I have to turn at the right moment to let an effect come through, and sometimes that means a bunch of takes to get it right.

So, kudos to you for making everything work in your favor!!!!
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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