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Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 21 Apr 2018
by RobC
Marco Raaphorst wrote: ↑21 Apr 2018
RobC wrote: ↑21 Apr 2018
Quietly I say, I also meant spreading a sound a bit wider on the frequency spectrum.
Make it sound like a Dirac tone?
Eh, just using all your knowledge and design the sound until it sounds like what you imagined. I'm not much of a fan of various generators. Mostly if they don't detail what it does in the tool's manual....
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 21 Apr 2018
by demt
unison and a microseconds delay between stereo left n right ie reverb left channel twice n stereo channel once
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 21 Apr 2018
by RobC
demt wrote: ↑21 Apr 2018
unison and a microseconds delay between stereo left n right ie reverb left channel twice n stereo channel once
That's yet another one ~ but Propellerheads called them in a tutorial as making a wide sound, or well, yeah bigger, too.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 21 Apr 2018
by jimmyklane
Spreading a sound out in the spectrum is only possible if the sound itself actually HAS those frequencies contained within it. The only other options are to create new harmonics with stuff like saturation/distortion on the high end and options like subharmonic synthesis for the bass. I’ve had a DBX 120 in my rack for a long time, and it works quite well but nowadays I very rarely use it because my music has changed and I’m also able to create sounds that have those necessary sub-frequencies at the source. Waves has a plugin that does something like this (MaxxBass I think?) and you can attempt to use something like an H3000, H910 (or even the H9 pedal) to shift an octave down if the sound is monophonic....polyphonic sounds don’t work as well, and most of the time you won’t want that much bass in a poly patch.....but you might want it brighter. Aphex Type C units go for $50 and used CAREFULLY really can work wonders to make a sound pop through.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 21 Apr 2018
by RobC
jimmyklane wrote: ↑21 Apr 2018
Spreading a sound out in the spectrum is only possible if the sound itself actually HAS those frequencies contained within it. The only other options are to create new harmonics with stuff like saturation/distortion on the high end and options like subharmonic synthesis for the bass. I’ve had a DBX 120 in my rack for a long time, and it works quite well but nowadays I very rarely use it because my music has changed and I’m also able to create sounds that have those necessary sub-frequencies at the source. Waves has a plugin that does something like this (MaxxBass I think?) and you can attempt to use something like an H3000, H910 (or even the H9 pedal) to shift an octave down if the sound is monophonic....polyphonic sounds don’t work as well, and most of the time you won’t want that much bass in a poly patch.....but you might want it brighter. Aphex Type C units go for $50 and used CAREFULLY really can work wonders to make a sound pop through.
Well, there's no argument there - what's not there (and if we want it to be there), we need to create it; one way or another. Whichever we prefer.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 21 Apr 2018
by jimmyklane
RobC wrote: ↑21 Apr 2018
jimmyklane wrote: ↑21 Apr 2018
Spreading a sound out in the spectrum is only possible if the sound itself actually HAS those frequencies contained within it. The only other options are to create new harmonics with stuff like saturation/distortion on the high end and options like subharmonic synthesis for the bass. I’ve had a DBX 120 in my rack for a long time, and it works quite well but nowadays I very rarely use it because my music has changed and I’m also able to create sounds that have those necessary sub-frequencies at the source. Waves has a plugin that does something like this (MaxxBass I think?) and you can attempt to use something like an H3000, H910 (or even the H9 pedal) to shift an octave down if the sound is monophonic....polyphonic sounds don’t work as well, and most of the time you won’t want that much bass in a poly patch.....but you might want it brighter. Aphex Type C units go for $50 and used CAREFULLY really can work wonders to make a sound pop through.
Well, there's no argument there - what's not there (and if we want it to be there), we need to create it; one way or another. Whichever we prefer.
The Emu Ultra samplers have a licensed version of the Aphex Aural Exciter built in as a per-sample effect...so you can, for example, brighten a top-line sound and keep a sub octave a bit darker to help blend the two.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 27 Apr 2018
by Voyager
selig wrote: ↑19 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:Ever came across some weird trick that made a sound fuller by creating additional frequencies, changing the sound, etc?
Yes, if you call adding saturation “weird”. 
There is certainly many ways to make a sound fuller but for that purpose adding good saturation it's like adding a cherry on the top of the cake.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by normen
RobC wrote: ↑19 Apr 2018
Not that I wouldn't be happy about such surprises, but I don't just want to rarely stumble upon interesting results by accident; instead I wanted to collect every possibility step by step, and see what else there can be squeezed out.
If thats really the case I suggest studying all the _data_ others accumulated on these topics. Trying and theorizing it all yourself WILL NOT work. And remember the plural of anecdote isn't data
Heres a whole archive full of actual scientific papers, it will cost you less than trying and finding everything out yourself
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by RobC
normen wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018
RobC wrote: ↑19 Apr 2018
Not that I wouldn't be happy about such surprises, but I don't just want to rarely stumble upon interesting results by accident; instead I wanted to collect every possibility step by step, and see what else there can be squeezed out.
If thats really the case I suggest studying all the _data_ others accumulated on these topics. Trying and theorizing it all yourself WILL NOT work. And remember the plural of anecdote isn't data
Heres a whole archive full of actual scientific papers, it will cost you less than trying and finding everything out yourself
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/
My situation will likely never make it possible to get proper education.
I'm happy for you that you found support, possibilities and could progress.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by selig
RobC wrote:normen wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018
If thats really the case I suggest studying all the _data_ others accumulated on these topics. Trying and theorizing it all yourself WILL NOT work. And remember the plural of anecdote isn't data
Heres a whole archive full of actual scientific papers, it will cost you less than trying and finding everything out yourself
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/
My situation will likely never make it possible to get proper education.
I'm happy for you that you found support, possibilities and could progress.
Are you responding to what Normen said, because you quoted him but what you said didn’t seem to relate to his comments. ???
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Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by RobC
selig wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:
My situation will likely never make it possible to get proper education.
I'm happy for you that you found support, possibilities and could progress.
Are you responding to what Normen said, because you quoted him but what you said didn’t seem to relate to his comments. ???
Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
Oh! I shortened down a longer reply. Well, AES has publications, for a price, of course. My free time is going to get limited, and I will probably still lack sufficient funds.
Now, he is an engineer. In order to become one, you definitely need some sort of support and possibilities in life. ~ Why am I not one? Because I got no proper support, and found no useful possibilities in life to make it happen. It wasn't a choice, but faith. Not going into details.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by normen
RobC wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018
Now, he is an engineer. In order to become one, you definitely need some sort of support and possibilities in life. ~ Why am I not one? Because I got no proper support, and found no useful possibilities in life to make it happen. It wasn't a choice, but faith. Not going into details.
The way you put it it rather sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy
Still none of that keeps you from acquiring actual information if you want it. If you have fun dabbling by all means dabble - but if it riles you up too much take a step back and just go with the mainstream
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by RobC
normen wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018
RobC wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018
Now, he is an engineer. In order to become one, you definitely need some sort of support and possibilities in life. ~ Why am I not one? Because I got no proper support, and found no useful possibilities in life to make it happen. It wasn't a choice, but faith. Not going into details.
The way you put it it rather sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy
Still none of that keeps you from acquiring actual information if you want it. If you have fun dabbling by all means dabble - but if it riles you up too much take a step back and just go with the mainstream
I'm not lucky either, then, cause I don't always find the needed information for free.
Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by selig
RobC wrote:normen wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018
The way you put it it rather sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy [emoji3] Still none of that keeps you from acquiring actual information if you want it. If you have fun dabbling by all means dabble - but if it riles you up too much take a step back and just go with the mainstream [emoji6]
I'm not lucky either, then, cause I don't always find the needed information for free.
If you have time to explore every possibility on your own you have time to research online for free. No need to reinvent the wheel. Your choice.
It’s time management - if you’d rather make music, then learn to do that. But if you’re more drawn to exploring and tinkering with audio tools, do that. I have plenty of friends who never make a song but have all the tools. They prefer to explore with no end goal, and that makes them happy.
Apologies if that’s you - it’s easy to assume everyone here is trying to hone their music making skills, and answer their questions accordingly!
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Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by normen
That's what I mean - in the time you save reading one of those docs instead of tinkering on your own you can wash so many windows and mow so many lawns that you'd make a plus in the end
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by RobC
Like I said, my time will be limited; that and I'm not really lucky finding the answers I'm looking for, but I do research; and again I would have loved to have at least a diploma by now, so clearly it's my interest (or was, since I see how things will go) and I want(ed) to put it to use, too.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by avasopht
RobC wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018
Like I said, my time will be limited; that and I'm not really lucky finding the answers I'm looking for, but I do research; and again I would have loved to have at least a diploma by now, so clearly it's my interest (or was, since I see how things will go) and I want(ed) to put it to use, too.
What they're saying is, if you have time to discover through trial and error, you have time to read existing materials (because that would take much less time).
If you need to know what to read just ask about a particular subject.
Unless you're a mathematical and scientific genius, it's most likely that trial and error will incur many hard limits. Plus it just takes a great deal more time that you just couldn't achieve in a single lifetime. Would you really have discovered how FM synthesis creates sidebands? Or would you know that applying convolutions in any order produces the same results? There. Just saved you days of non stop trial and error, and another 9 months of faffing around before even thinking to identify the laws of the order of processing.
Then we could save you another day of trial and error by telling you that the order of processes
does matter when you have effects such as compressors or anything that adds distortion or in some other way introduces new frequencies.
You'll find best results using a mix of both methods, and all of the information you need is available for free online.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by RobC
avasopht wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018
RobC wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018
Like I said, my time will be limited; that and I'm not really lucky finding the answers I'm looking for, but I do research; and again I would have loved to have at least a diploma by now, so clearly it's my interest (or was, since I see how things will go) and I want(ed) to put it to use, too.
What they're saying is, if you have time to discover through trial and error, you have time to read existing materials (because that would take much less time).
If you need to know what to read just ask about a particular subject.
Unless you're a mathematical and scientific genius, it's most likely that trial and error will incur many hard limits. Plus it just takes a great deal more time that you just couldn't achieve in a single lifetime. Would you really have discovered how FM synthesis creates sidebands? Or would you know that applying convolutions in any order produces the same results? There. Just saved you days of non stop trial and error, and another 9 months of faffing around before even thinking to identify the laws of the order of processing.
Then we could save you another day of trial and error by telling you that the order of processes
does matter when you have effects such as compressors or anything that adds distortion or in some other way introduces new frequencies.
You'll find best results using a mix of both methods, and all of the information you need is available for free online.
Well, yes, 'if' I will have time. xD
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by selig
RobC wrote:Like I said, my time will be limited; that and I'm not really lucky finding the answers I'm looking for, but I do research; and again I would have loved to have at least a diploma by now, so clearly it's my interest (or was, since I see how things will go) and I want(ed) to put it to use, too.
OK, right, BUT you also said you wanted to “collect every possibility”, which takes more time then finding the direct answers to your questions.
I was suggesting a way to make even better use of your time, make sense?
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Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by selig
RobC wrote:
I'm not lucky either, then, cause I don't always find the needed information for free.
You may find a LOT of useful and free information around these parts…
I’ve learned a lot here myself, not only by asking questions but also in reading other people’s replies to questions I’ve also answered. It’s an on-going learning process IMO.
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Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 28 Apr 2018
by RobC
selig wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018
RobC wrote:Like I said, my time will be limited; that and I'm not really lucky finding the answers I'm looking for, but I do research; and again I would have loved to have at least a diploma by now, so clearly it's my interest (or was, since I see how things will go) and I want(ed) to put it to use, too.
OK, right, BUT you also said you wanted to “collect every possibility”, which takes more time then finding the direct answers to your questions.
I was suggesting a way to make even better use of your time, make sense?
Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
Sadly times are changing for me ATM. : P
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 30 Apr 2018
by EdGrip
Throughout life, one thing that's remained constant for me is thinking "This is an interesting thing! I wonder how it works/how they do that/where that comes from?".
Nowadays I have a machine in my hand that allows me to find the answer immediately, most of the time, even if it takes a few different search terms to hone in on the thing I'm trying to find out.
I think my point is that it's important to nurture that curiosity, whatever else is happening in your life, because it's what drives
everything else. You shouldn't need persuading to Google how stuff works - it should be a compulsion!
Free information, man! In your hand, all the time! I'm just saying, don't dismiss it because you 'haven't got time". You've always got time. You don't have to read the whole Internet at once. Just the answer to whatever question pops into your head.
Always Be Curious.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 30 Apr 2018
by EdGrip
OR:
try sticking a kHs Disperser on it.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 30 Apr 2018
by Marco Raaphorst
I love that Reasontalk is often a motivational thing.
I guess that is the hardest thing. Be motivated to put your music out there. It is much easier to find ways not to do it. In a way, discussing things can be like that. But it is ok if it activates motivation.
Bottom line: you should be doing music. Create and finish pieces. If that doesn't work you need to find out what you're doing wrong. Because it's only that, create and ship/finish. The rest is bullshit.
Re: Making any sound fuller
Posted: 30 Apr 2018
by RobC
I don't have issues with finishing songs, and I try to do my research the best I can, but there still are priorities in life. It's another question how much free time they leave.