Expert Sleepers ES-8 and Reason

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Jagwah
Posts: 1125
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

17 Apr 2018

Hi, I'm really lost here and it would be great to get some help.

I am using Expert Sleepers ES-8 module on my modular synth. I want to send CV data from Reason to my synth. This module has a USB connection connecting it to my Reason computer, and I'm not finding very much information for sending CV through this type of connection.

I am using Reason 10 on W10 with an Asus Essence STX II soundcard. Should I be using some type of app like Loopback Midi for this process?

Can anyone help walk me through the process or direct me to some appropriate reading material as I am really lost at this point, thanks.
My mind is glowing

*Soundcloud

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O1B
Posts: 991
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

17 Apr 2018

The Manual is Scant: http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es8usermanual.html

I don't have one yet, but if I may...

Did you plug it onto something obvious to see it change... eg. Pitch, LFO rate?
On the sequencer, you should see all the channels for the ES-8, as usual.
From there, you can pick the channels. "Silent Way Voice Controller 1-2, 3-4, etc"

Im interested, and I hope you get it solved.

Not reason, but it shows it works!


The ES-8 is a USB 2.0 class-compliant audio interface in a Eurorack module, with DC-coupled inputs and outputs that can be used for both CVs and audio. As such it is directly compatible with all popular computer-based CV generation software (e.g. Silent Way, Max/MSP, Reaktor, CV Toolkit, zMors, Audulus, etc.) as well as audio and CV processing iOS apps.


Jagwah wrote:
17 Apr 2018
Hi, I'm really lost here and it would be great to get some help.

I am using Expert Sleepers ES-8 module on my modular synth. I want to send CV data from Reason to my synth. This module has a USB connection connecting it to my Reason computer, and I'm not finding very much information for sending CV through this type of connection.

I am using Reason 10 on W10 with an Asus Essence STX II soundcard. Should I be using some type of app like Loopback Midi for this process?

Can anyone help walk me through the process or direct me to some appropriate reading material as I am really lost at this point, thanks.

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rcbuse
Posts: 692
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: SR388
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17 Apr 2018

I don't see you referencing this RE, perhaps this is a good starting point.

https://shop.propellerheads.se/rack-ext ... ontroller/

emilng
Posts: 64
Joined: 03 Oct 2017

17 Apr 2018

I have an ES-8 but I'm using it with a mac.

I'm assuming you have it plugged in correctly and installed the windows drivers.

If you go into your Reason "preferences" in the "Audio" tab. You should be able to change your "Audio Device" to the ES-8.
Under "Active Input Channels" and "Active Output Channels" make sure you enable all the inputs and outputs you plan to use.
Under Hardware Interface in the rack, if you flip the rack around you should see that your inputs and outputs are now lit up and ready to use.
If you route some audio to one of the outputs you should see that output light up a purple color on your ES-8.

Once that's working you'll have to convert your CV to audio in order to get it to work properly. You can use Thor for that as explained in this video


There are also a few REs that handle that more easily. As mentioned above, there's Silent Way for pitch CV. For general conversion, but not pitch CV there's https://shop.propellerheads.se/product_ ... io-bundle/.

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Jagwah
Posts: 1125
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

17 Apr 2018

O1B wrote:
17 Apr 2018
I don't have one yet, but if I may...

Did you plug it onto something obvious to see it change... eg. Pitch, LFO rate?
On the sequencer, you should see all the channels for the ES-8, as usual.
From there, you can pick the channels. "Silent Way Voice Controller 1-2, 3-4, etc"
Hi,

Yeah there's nothing in the sequencer and you can't really test anything until everything is already working - however the ES-8 has great LEDs that let you know when something is happening.

My main problem was many confusing choices in my audio preferences, but as emilng pointed out there should be one with Expert Sleepers or ES-8, which there is and since selecting it, everything else fell in to place.

Robotic Bean's CV I/O devices make this super easy, no converting to audio and back, once you are set up it's have at it!

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product_ ... io-bundle/
My mind is glowing

*Soundcloud

User avatar
Jagwah
Posts: 1125
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

17 Apr 2018

rcbuse wrote:
17 Apr 2018
I don't see you referencing this RE, perhaps this is a good starting point.

https://shop.propellerheads.se/rack-ext ... ontroller/
Thanks I have this in my rack waiting. I need to understand my modular oscillators a bit better - if only they had simple gate and CV inputs like Reason devices! :)
My mind is glowing

*Soundcloud

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Jagwah
Posts: 1125
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

18 Apr 2018

emilng wrote:
17 Apr 2018
I have an ES-8 but I'm using it with a mac.

I'm assuming you have it plugged in correctly and installed the windows drivers.

If you go into your Reason "preferences" in the "Audio" tab. You should be able to change your "Audio Device" to the ES-8.
Under "Active Input Channels" and "Active Output Channels" make sure you enable all the inputs and outputs you plan to use.
Under Hardware Interface in the rack, if you flip the rack around you should see that your inputs and outputs are now lit up and ready to use.
If you route some audio to one of the outputs you should see that output light up a purple color on your ES-8.

Once that's working you'll have to convert your CV to audio in order to get it to work properly. You can use Thor for that as explained in this video


There are also a few REs that handle that more easily. As mentioned above, there's Silent Way for pitch CV. For general conversion, but not pitch CV there's https://shop.propellerheads.se/product_ ... io-bundle/.
Hey Emilng thanks a bunch! The way you explained this was exactly what I needed, I was set up minutes after reading your post so thank you :)

Now I have one last problem you may be familiar with, on Reason's hardware interface the usual audio outputs are now there with the CV cables next to them, and my audio output from Reason has died. Am I expecting too much to have both CV going out and audio going out at the same time?

By the way these new REs make things a lot easier, no converting audio and vice versa:

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product_ ... io-bundle/
My mind is glowing

*Soundcloud

emilng
Posts: 64
Joined: 03 Oct 2017

18 Apr 2018

Jagwah wrote:
18 Apr 2018
Now I have one last problem you may be familiar with, on Reason's hardware interface the usual audio outputs are now there with the CV cables next to them, and my audio output from Reason has died. Am I expecting too much to have both CV going out and audio going out at the same time?
You have to set up an aggregate device that combines your soundcard with the ES-8. This part I'm a little fuzzy on since I'm not on windows, but I believe http://www.asio4all.org/ should let you do that.

Your soundcard output might show up after the ES-8's outputs. In that case you'll have to route the "Master Out" from the "Master Section" to those outputs.

Hope that works!

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O1B
Posts: 991
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

18 Apr 2018

YES!!!

That has to be Awesome. You must be beaming like George Constanza!

I love Lectic Panda stuff - it's one of our first 'eyes on' in reason. (Shout to Chronologist REs)
I also have Mordax DATA and have learned SOOO much just watching the Blonds, Brunes, and Redheads.

But to have REASON CV in AND out (more resources to shape the sound) as a modulator gotta be something.
And, ES-8's 96K Audio rate is also nice to have. And, THATS why I need a portable (3-4U) Rack.
I read that ADAT bottle necks to 44 or 48 - but, I have to do more reading...

Congrats! Im jealous! It's gonna be hard to part with that $500, but I gotta cross over.

- the way I feel today... without Voltage Control... music sounds geriatric.
Image
Jagwah wrote:
17 Apr 2018
O1B wrote:
17 Apr 2018
I don't have one yet, but if I may...

Did you plug it onto something obvious to see it change... eg. Pitch, LFO rate?
On the sequencer, you should see all the channels for the ES-8, as usual.
From there, you can pick the channels. "Silent Way Voice Controller 1-2, 3-4, etc"
Hi,

Yeah there's nothing in the sequencer and you can't really test anything until everything is already working - however the ES-8 has great LEDs that let you know when something is happening.

My main problem was many confusing choices in my audio preferences, but as emilng pointed out there should be one with Expert Sleepers or ES-8, which there is and since selecting it, everything else fell in to place.

Robotic Bean's CV I/O devices make this super easy, no converting to audio and back, once you are set up it's have at it!

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product_ ... io-bundle/

User avatar
Jagwah
Posts: 1125
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

19 Apr 2018

O1B wrote:
18 Apr 2018
YES!!!

That has to be Awesome. You must be beaming like George Constanza!

I love Lectic Panda stuff - it's one of our first 'eyes on' in reason. (Shout to Chronologist REs)
I also have Mordax DATA and have learned SOOO much just watching the Blonds, Brunes, and Redheads.

But to have REASON CV in AND out (more resources to shape the sound) as a modulator gotta be something.
And, ES-8's 96K Audio rate is also nice to have. And, THATS why I need a portable (3-4U) Rack.
I read that ADAT bottle necks to 44 or 48 - but, I have to do more reading...

Congrats! Im jealous! It's gonna be hard to part with that $500, but I gotta cross over.

- the way I feel today... without Voltage Control... music sounds geriatric.
Image
Thanks dude I was beaming once it kicked in to gear. :) Half of my rack is made up of video modules and getting all that functional and recording was a long journey, but now literally everything is working except for audio back in to Reason, and I already have a work around for it but I don't think it's necessary.

Yeah Letric Panda rules :)

Mordax Data looks intense!

There is a slightly smaller ES-5 which can be used as an extension to the ES-8, maybe that one can work independently too and should be cheaper.

Thanks for your input :)
My mind is glowing

*Soundcloud

User avatar
Jagwah
Posts: 1125
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

19 Apr 2018

Reason is silent with my current connection. I can play a video in my browser and the sound works there, just not Reason.

I am using ASIO drivers and in audio preferences it shows up as ASIO Expert Sleepers ES-8 (Audio Card Driver).

If my CV data is being sent through this part of the hardware interface, should Reason's audio be coming through the same place? Does my interface look set up as it should be to send CV data and audio too?

CV OUT 1.0.jpg
CV OUT 1.0.jpg (175.67 KiB) Viewed 573 times
My mind is glowing

*Soundcloud

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 991
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

19 Apr 2018

Care to share your weapons of choice, JagWah? I never sleep on visual data. Doepher..? or Liquid TV? Interested.
Half of my rack is made up of video modules
Do you have Expert Sleepers ES-8 show up in Reason Preferences Audio? From there, I'd imagine only the sequencer is needed.
Just spitballing. I hate these issues so i hope it gets solved for you quickly.

From what I gather from Mordax's readings, it doesn't care if I send it CV or audio, and it reads either no problem.
Im positive ES-8 works the same way. So few videos out there.

- maybe reach out to Expert Sleepers. I think you'll get this solved easy.
About the ES-5. Nope. I want that ES-8 (Audio/CV/ADAT). And I think I'll still need MI's YARNS (midi/CV)


Jagwah wrote:
19 Apr 2018
Reason is silent with my current connection. I can play a video in my browser and the sound works there, just not Reason.

I am using ASIO drivers and in audio preferences it shows up as ASIO Expert Sleepers ES-8 (Audio Card Driver).

If my CV data is being sent through this part of the hardware interface, should Reason's audio be coming through the same place? Does my interface look set up as it should be to send CV data and audio too?


CV OUT 1.0.jpg

emilng
Posts: 64
Joined: 03 Oct 2017

19 Apr 2018

O1B wrote:
18 Apr 2018
But to have REASON CV in AND out (more resources to shape the sound) as a modulator gotta be something.
And, ES-8's 96K Audio rate is also nice to have. And, THATS why I need a portable (3-4U) Rack.
One thing to watch out for with the ES-8 is that you have to make sure your case is deep enough to fit it. The ES-8 is 50mm deep and most skiffs won't be able fit that especially when you have to take the depth of a bus board into account.
Last edited by emilng on 19 Apr 2018, edited 1 time in total.

emilng
Posts: 64
Joined: 03 Oct 2017

19 Apr 2018

Jagwah wrote:
19 Apr 2018
Reason is silent with my current connection. I can play a video in my browser and the sound works there, just not Reason.

I am using ASIO drivers and in audio preferences it shows up as ASIO Expert Sleepers ES-8 (Audio Card Driver).

If my CV data is being sent through this part of the hardware interface, should Reason's audio be coming through the same place? Does my interface look set up as it should be to send CV data and audio too?
In order to use multiple soundcards/audio interfaces at the same time on Windows you need to install http://www.asio4all.org/.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to find clear instructions on using it with Reason, but basically asio4all has its own control panel. I think you can access it with the "Control Panel..." button where you choose your audio interface in Reason. You can see an example of this with Ableton https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... e-Windows- and with FL Studio https://www.image-line.com/support/FLHe ... io4all.htm. Notice the panel shows you all your audio interfaces and you can choose which ones you want to enable/disable.
Last edited by emilng on 20 Apr 2018, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 991
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

20 Apr 2018

Looking at a 3U Rackbrute or 4U Intellijel. Which skiff do you use?
emilng wrote:
19 Apr 2018
O1B wrote:
18 Apr 2018
But to have REASON CV in AND out (more resources to shape the sound) as a modulator gotta be something.
And, ES-8's 96K Audio rate is also nice to have. And, THATS why I need a portable (3-4U) Rack.
One thing to watch out for with the ES-8 is that you have to make sure your case is deep enough to fit it. The ES-8 is 50mm deep and most skiffs won't be able fit that especially when you have to take the depth of a bus board into account.

emilng
Posts: 64
Joined: 03 Oct 2017

20 Apr 2018

O1B wrote:
20 Apr 2018
Looking at a 3U Rackbrute or 4U Intellijel. Which skiff do you use?
I'm using a 4U Intellijel.

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 991
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

21 Apr 2018

How do you place it on the table? against the Wall? Stand?
I ask because without a stand and braced against a wall, it seems it will just fall over?

Do you travel with it? Hows the bag fit?
And, how useful are the 1Us? interested in the 1U Attenuverter, but no others stood out.

Solid Thank you.
emilng wrote:
20 Apr 2018
O1B wrote:
20 Apr 2018
Looking at a 3U Rackbrute or 4U Intellijel. Which skiff do you use?
I'm using a 4U Intellijel.

emilng
Posts: 64
Joined: 03 Oct 2017

21 Apr 2018

O1B wrote:
21 Apr 2018
How do you place it on the table? against the Wall? Stand?
I ask because without a stand and braced against a wall, it seems it will just fall over?

Do you travel with it? Hows the bag fit?
And, how useful are the 1Us? interested in the 1U Attenuverter, but no others stood out.
I just started this year so I don't have much yet. This is my current setup:


Since I can rewire inputs and outputs inside the computer I don't find myself repatching the cables on the ES-8 often. When I get more modules I plan to lay it flat when I'm patching and stand it up like I have it currently when I'm not. It's deep, short, and heavy enough that I'm not worried about it falling over.

I kind of feel the same way about the current 1U modules but I'm thinking about DIYing my own panels that can hold smaller modules like the 2HP or Erica Synths Pico horizontally. I have very limited desk space so I was constrained by what was available at 84HP. If you have more space there are a lot more options out there at 104HP.

I haven't traveled with it so I can't answer that question :)

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 991
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

22 Apr 2018

Macbook? sssssshhh! Don't tell Bxgyieg78c!

Thanks for the link. Looks Good. And, now you go and TEMPT me yet again with the SV-1.
Want. Want.

I think Im sold on the intellijel. 4U. 84. and a SV-1. vs a 7U. Thanks!

I have to print out a photo and study the SV-1. It looks beautiful, and wins in the M32 shootout:



emilng wrote:
21 Apr 2018
I just started this year so I don't have much yet. This is my current setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GThtzYxEAiA

Since I can rewire inputs and outputs inside the computer I don't find myself repatching the cables on the ES-8 often. When I get more modules I plan to lay it flat when I'm patching and stand it up like I have it currently when I'm not. It's deep, short, and heavy enough that I'm not worried about it falling over.

I kind of feel the same way about the current 1U modules but I'm thinking about DIYing my own panels that can hold smaller modules like the 2HP or Erica Synths Pico horizontally. I have very limited desk space so I was constrained by what was available at 84HP. If you have more space there are a lot more options out there at 104HP.

I haven't traveled with it so I can't answer that question :)

User avatar
Jagwah
Posts: 1125
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

01 May 2018

Thanks for your input guys and sorry for the delay in replying.

My audio from Reason actually pipes beautifully through my ES-8's #1 and #2 CV outputs! I had tried everything else so I tried plugging my headphones into the ES-8 and couldnt believe it. This being the case I am sure it's something simple so I will get in touch with Expert Sleepers and ask their advice on the issue, and will post back here if I get some answers.
My mind is glowing

*Soundcloud

User avatar
Jagwah
Posts: 1125
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

01 May 2018

O1B wrote:
19 Apr 2018
Care to share your weapons of choice, JagWah? I never sleep on visual data. Doepher..? or Liquid TV? Interested.
Hey sorry for the delay in replying, and sure I love talking about my video gear :)

The top half of my modular rack is the necessary audio modules, the ES-8 and a power module. Now that Reason comminucates with the rack I can lose some of these modules, like an LFO and a 'skew' module which manipulates CV signals (Reason puts it to shame: ), which will free up the power module a little more.

Then the bottom half is LZX Industries modules. At the heart of it is the Visual Cortex, which is like a Thor of video synthesis - you could make a great start with just this module (and a power module to power it, and a rack of course). The other LZX modules have specific tasks but all relate to each other. I use them for generating moving patterns that can be synchronized to a tempo which opens up lots of exciting possibilities, and also manipulating video signals in really cool ways.

I have many upscalers and downscalers and converters, all which needed to be very specific to work in this situation (breaking down a HDMI signal to 576p resolution then back up to HDMI again isn't an easy task). Now there is a new device from BlackMagic Design (very cool state of the art company) that will take the LZX standard oldschool aspect ratio and stretch it to 1920 x 1080 without breaking any of it down, definitely looking at this as I wanted that bigger more standard aspect ratio very badly.

Then I have gear from BPMC (Big Pauper Modified Circuitry) https://glitchart.com/
No joke these devices are some of the coolest things I have ever seen. Circuit bending is a cool art form and I look forward to adding it to my project. Had a few hitches but nearly there. I have a video mixer and a title maker from these guys, all circuit bent with switches and knobs controlling everything - and the mixer even has CV inputs! They are in the process of making a rack module too. Check out their site, really cool stuff!

Last but not least is my LZX Cyclops module, it works the same as an oscilloscope, but it controls an RGB lazer! They are in their boxes being saved for last.

Still in the process of getting everything functional and I'll be starting a Youtube channel once everything is well underway. :)
My mind is glowing

*Soundcloud

emilng
Posts: 64
Joined: 03 Oct 2017

01 May 2018

O1B wrote:
22 Apr 2018
Macbook? sssssshhh! Don't tell Bxgyieg78c!

Thanks for the link. Looks Good. And, now you go and TEMPT me yet again with the SV-1.
Want. Want.

I think Im sold on the intellijel. 4U. 84. and a SV-1. vs a 7U. Thanks!

I have to print out a photo and study the SV-1. It looks beautiful, and wins in the M32 shootout:
I had originally planned on getting the 7U, but with the cost of the SV-1, 4U case, and ES-8 I ran out of money in my budget :P
The SV-1 is great for how many options it provides in a larger modular setup. It basically has 4 sound sources; 2 oscillators, a self resonating filter, and a noise source. I also learned that a filter can double as a VCA in a pinch.

Jagwah wrote:
01 May 2018
Hey sorry for the delay in replying, and sure I love talking about my video gear :)
The video gear looks seriously cool, but it's another rabbit hole that I don't have time/can't afford to go down. I'd love to see what you're doing with it though.

Before I spent all my time and money on music gear I was doing a lot of computer art so I've been thinking about figuring out how to blend the two. I've been researching how to incorporate a Raspberry Pi with a screen into my case. It's basically a tiny computer so in theory I could use the ES-8 as the audio interface for it while displaying visuals on the screen.

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 991
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

02 May 2018

Wow! I had no idea that world existed.
Just looked up some of that gear. ... and the visuals... inspiring.

Time to research that setup.

Thank you.
Jagwah wrote:
01 May 2018
O1B wrote:
19 Apr 2018
Care to share your weapons of choice, JagWah? I never sleep on visual data. Doepher..? or Liquid TV? Interested.
Hey sorry for the delay in replying, and sure I love talking about my video gear :)

The top half of my modular rack is the necessary audio modules, the ES-8 and a power module. Now that Reason comminucates with the rack I can lose some of these modules, like an LFO and a 'skew' module which manipulates CV signals (Reason puts it to shame: ), which will free up the power module a little more.

Then the bottom half is LZX Industries modules. At the heart of it is the Visual Cortex, which is like a Thor of video synthesis - you could make a great start with just this module (and a power module to power it, and a rack of course). The other LZX modules have specific tasks but all relate to each other. I use them for generating moving patterns that can be synchronized to a tempo which opens up lots of exciting possibilities, and also manipulating video signals in really cool ways.

I have many upscalers and downscalers and converters, all which needed to be very specific to work in this situation (breaking down a HDMI signal to 576p resolution then back up to HDMI again isn't an easy task). Now there is a new device from BlackMagic Design (very cool state of the art company) that will take the LZX standard oldschool aspect ratio and stretch it to 1920 x 1080 without breaking any of it down, definitely looking at this as I wanted that bigger more standard aspect ratio very badly.

Then I have gear from BPMC (Big Pauper Modified Circuitry) https://glitchart.com/
No joke these devices are some of the coolest things I have ever seen. Circuit bending is a cool art form and I look forward to adding it to my project. Had a few hitches but nearly there. I have a video mixer and a title maker from these guys, all circuit bent with switches and knobs controlling everything - and the mixer even has CV inputs! They are in the process of making a rack module too. Check out their site, really cool stuff!

Last but not least is my LZX Cyclops module, it works the same as an oscilloscope, but it controls an RGB lazer! They are in their boxes being saved for last.

Still in the process of getting everything functional and I'll be starting a Youtube channel once everything is well underway. :)

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 991
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

02 May 2018

I love that SV-1... i may get it and the KB-1 later in the year, if i sell a synth.
Ive seen them in their own case. I like that.

Its form factor is killer, and it makes a great synth, ute, filter, mixer...

its a work of art, really:

Does the CLOCK button (top left) act a a Tap Tempo?
Image
emilng wrote:
01 May 2018
I had originally planned on getting the 7U, but with the cost of the SV-1, 4U case, and ES-8 I ran out of money in my budget :P
The SV-1 is great for how many options it provides in a larger modular setup. It basically has 4 sound sources; 2 oscillators, a self resonating filter, and a noise source. I also learned that a filter can double as a VCA in a pinch.

emilng
Posts: 64
Joined: 03 Oct 2017

02 May 2018

O1B wrote:
02 May 2018
I love that SV-1... i may get it and the KB-1 later in the year, if i sell a synth.
Ive seen them in their own case. I like that.

Its form factor is killer, and it makes a great synth, ute, filter, mixer...

its a work of art, really:

Does the CLOCK button (top left) act a a Tap Tempo?
The clock button acts as a tap tempo when using the internal clock or sets clock multiply/divide when using midi clock or clock in. In combination with the LFO button it sets multiply/divide rate for the two clock synced LFOs in the midi module.

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