dB's the Same but Louder on a Split Track

[Creativemind]

Hi All!

I have a track with a vocal split onto 2 tracks so that the last word of a section of verse is on another track. Both have the same RV7000 on there (same settings) and The Echo added to the second split track so I could echo / delay the last word.

It's strange how with a Selig Gain on the main vocal, it reads -18dB and then the other vocal (with an M-Class Maximizer) added and a Selig Gain was reading -28dB. So I turned up the Maximizer on the delayed part to make it also -18dB but it's noticeably louder, as in definitely.

There wasn't really anything wrong in the first place so don't know why I wanted the db's the same (didn't sound wrong to my ears or anything). I just thought the dB's should match.

Anyone any ideas here? the dB levels (at the top of the sequencer) for both parts are the same too, 2.05dB.

Maybe I should just go with my ears and leave it alone lol!

Thanks!

[Carly(Poohbear)]

Sounds like some compression has come into play.

What is the dynamic range between the 2 tracks?

[selig]

What I think may be going on, as Carly(Poohbear) suggest, is that the compression is changing the dynamics of the track and therefore the perceived loudness. Compression can change the relationship between peak and average levels (crest factor), and you can end up with more or less peak energy in a compressed track vs the non-compressed track (or a differently compressed track).

If for example, a compressor with a slow attack is used, the peaks will pass relatively untouched, while the average level will be reduced. This will increase the crest factor, making the track sound softer (even though the peak level is relatively unchanged).

Bottom line: when balancing two different track’s levels against each other, you cannot reliably use metering to end up with them sounding the same loudness. Best to use your ears for this IMO, as most folks (even without training) can listen to two audio signals and identify which one is louder.


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[Creativemind]

There is a M-Class Maximizer on both tracks without any adjustment so shouldn't be affecting the loudness should it?

Sorry not sure what you mean by dynamic range between the 2 tracks.

[selig]

There is a M-Class Maximizer on both tracks without any adjustment so shouldn't be affecting the loudness should it?

Sorry not sure what you mean by dynamic range between the 2 tracks.

Your description didn’t make this clear (that you had two maximizers).

This would be super easy to explain if I was in front of Reason with your song file open. [emoji6]

It’s also possible it could be The Echo causing issues. Remember that when you adjust a dry/wet control, you are turning one of the two down when you turn the other up. Increase the wet, you’re turning DOWN the dry. If you turn down the dry, then levels will change.

Try bypassing things and see where the level difference occurs. This is the basic “trouble shooting” approach, based on the process of elimination. It should reveal where the level difference was introduced.


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[Carly(Poohbear)]

There is a M-Class Maximizer on both tracks without any adjustment so shouldn't be affecting the loudness should it?

Sorry not sure what you mean by dynamic range between the 2 tracks.

The Dynamic Range is between the quietest and loudest part.

I use flowers for DR. There are plenty of meters for doing or working out the Crest Factor (I use that too ), a lot of people interchange between DR and Crest Factor (TBH I do as well).

[Creativemind]

There is a M-Class Maximizer on both tracks without any adjustment so shouldn't be affecting the loudness should it?

Sorry not sure what you mean by dynamic range between the 2 tracks.

The Dynamic Range is between the quietest and loudest part.

I use flowers for DR. There are plenty of meters for doing or working out the Crest Factor (I use that too ), a lot of people interchange between DR and Crest Factor (TBH I do as well).

You use flowers? You talking about Flower Audio Loudness Meter here? What does it tell you, quietest to loudest distance of an audio clip / part?

Found this online as well about the Crest Factor. This is just a snippet of a much larger pdf available from programmablepower.com

"Crest factor is defined as the ratio of peak value to rms value of a current waveform: The crest factor for a sinusoidal current waveform, such as that which a pure resistive load would draw, is 1.414 since the peak of a true sinusoid is 1.414 times the rms value."

[selig]

The Dynamic Range is between the quietest and loudest part.

I use flowers for DR. There are plenty of meters for doing or working out the Crest Factor (I use that too ), a lot of people interchange between DR and Crest Factor (TBH I do as well).

You use flowers? You talking about Flower Audio Loudness Meter here? What does it tell you, quietest to loudest distance of an audio clip / part?

Found this online as well about the Crest Factor. This is just a snippet of a much larger pdf available from programmablepower.com

"Crest factor is defined as the ratio of peak value to rms value of a current waveform: The crest factor for a sinusoidal current waveform, such as that which a pure resistive load would draw, is 1.414 since the peak of a true sinusoid is 1.414 times the rms value."

“Dynamic Range” has too many other definitions, and isn’t as accurate a term as “Crest Factor”, which AFAIK only has this one meaning. For those to reasons I try to use Crest Factor when speaking about the difference between the peak and average levels.

BTW, a sine wave has a crest factor of 3 dB, while a square (any duty cycle) has the unique crest factor of 0 dB (the only wave shape that can say this).



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