How To Achieve This Quality Of Low End?

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Higor
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23 Nov 2017

I'm using some of this tracks for reference:














The bass is full and clean and you can hear every note in the low. I'm trying hard but i can't achieve this. I don't have a real bass. Can i get close to this using subtractor or some reason reffil?

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Marc Swing
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23 Nov 2017



and use this as fx:

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Marco Raaphorst
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23 Nov 2017

those reference mixes don't contain much low end. lower mids but they are lacking low end imo

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Olivier
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23 Nov 2017

my 2 cents...

I think its not so much in the type of bass you use. By correctly using the acoustic bass in subtractor you can get there as well.
Most important thing here is exactly what you say. The bass is "clean". The bass gets the room it needs by arranging the piece correctly. What these pieces seem to have in common is that the low part of the spectrum is really only occupied by the bass and to some extent the kick. Then there's at least an octave of nothing and then maybe some pads or some keys.
Accompany this with twang,y guitars, reverbs with emphasis on highs, somewhat thin vocals, and you create the room you need for the bass.
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sdst
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23 Nov 2017

look like that they cut the Low End in every track

also for that 80s reverb I recommend the Synapse DR-1 Deep Reverb

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normen
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23 Nov 2017

There isn‘t one thing that makes these sound good. First of all the compositions and arrangements leave room for the bass to breathe. Then you have excellent bass players <- this is the most important thing for the sound. They play the songs with the right feel, with the right groove etc. etc.

When you have all that you don‘t have to look for the good sound anymore, it will long be there already ;) Also be aware that if you heard the bass solo‘d in some of these you probably wouldn‘t be quite as impressed anymore.

TL;DR: Even if you think its just the sound of the bass, it's everything really.

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selig
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23 Nov 2017

normen wrote:There isn‘t one thing that makes these sound good. First of all the compositions and arrangements leave room for the bass to breathe. Then you have excellent bass players <- this is the most important thing for the sound. They play the songs with the right feel, with the right groove etc. etc.

When you have all that you don‘t have to look for the good sound anymore, it will long be there already ;) Also be aware that if you heard the bass solo‘d in some of these you probably wouldn‘t be quite as impressed anymore.

TL;DR: Even if you think its just the sound of the bass, it's everything really.
I’ll echo this - if you’ve ever worked with a good bass player you basically take a DI from them and record it flat. That’s it. You don’t need to add EQ or compress it in most cases. I will occasionally even roll out some of the top end to keep it from getting in the way of the other instruments, but otherwise it all comes from the instrument and the player.

When you record all your own tracks (as opposed to using samples/synths) you need to cut out some low end on your other tracks. But when you’re using samples/synths that’s not so important - if you find yourself doing that a lot with samples/synths, could be you’re doing too much or you’re simply playing too many parts down too low when building your tracks.

The bass should only need the bottom two octaves, shared with the kick to varying degrees (depending on the focus of your track), which is why many lo cut filters are set to around 80 Hz. Some folks will end up cutting stuff much higher, which again is important when recording your own audio and getting muddy tracks to work with. But again, samples etc. are usually pretty cleaned up from the source.

I say this because I hear tracks with too much low end cut out just as often as too little - maybe even more these days with all the advice to cut the crap out of the low end on everything but the bass/kick!


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Higor
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24 Nov 2017

Thanks for the replies.

The ScarBee bass sounds great but i'm using reason 8 - no vst.

I've notice that some bass synths looks good at first but when you check the low part it's just a hollow undefined sound.

I'll focus on the low to get the right definition because if this is not right the rest wont be any good.

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Marco Raaphorst
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24 Nov 2017

What about this track which has more low end but the bass is still super clear:


Your examples are very midrangy sounding to my ears. Lacking in low end.

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selig
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24 Nov 2017

Higor wrote:Thanks for the replies.

The ScarBee bass sounds great but i'm using reason 8 - no vst.

I've notice that some bass synths looks good at first but when you check the low part it's just a hollow undefined sound.

I'll focus on the low to get the right definition because if this is not right the rest wont be any good.
It’s not the low end that “makes” the sound, it’s the frequencies above the low end (the harmonics) that make a bass sound ‘big’ (somewhat ironically) and make it work in the mix.

If it was only about the low end, then a simple sine wave bass would be all you ever needed. All true/pure sines are equal in their energy when compared at the same level, so there would be no advantage with one synth/sample over another.

In that sense, creating big bass sounds is more about creating the “illusion” of bigness by controlling the balance of low vs high harmonic energy rather than just pumping more low end.
:)


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Marco Raaphorst
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24 Nov 2017

selig wrote:
24 Nov 2017
Higor wrote:Thanks for the replies.

The ScarBee bass sounds great but i'm using reason 8 - no vst.

I've notice that some bass synths looks good at first but when you check the low part it's just a hollow undefined sound.

I'll focus on the low to get the right definition because if this is not right the rest wont be any good.
It’s not the low end that “makes” the sound, it’s the frequencies above the low end (the harmonics) that make a bass sound ‘big’ (somewhat ironically) and make it work in the mix.

If it was only about the low end, then a simple sine wave bass would be all you ever needed. All true/pure sines are equal in their energy when compared at the same level, so there would be no advantage with one synth/sample over another.

In that sense, creating big bass sounds is more about creating the “illusion” of bigness by controlling the balance of low vs high harmonic energy rather than just pumping more low end.
:)


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In jazz often "the rules" are different than in popmusic. Take Kind of Blue for example. The low end is coming from the bass and nothing but the bass. Not from the bassdrum.

In popmusic it's often the bassdrum causing the lowest sound. Must say that it is like crazy innovative to break that rule :)

dana
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24 Nov 2017

Have you tried using a bass amp simulator? Its usually my go-to if i need the upper bass harmonics to stand out.

Higor
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25 Nov 2017

dana wrote:
24 Nov 2017
Have you tried using a bass amp simulator? Its usually my go-to if i need the upper bass harmonics to stand out.
I'm trying some set ups but what Selig said is true, when you have a good sample bass the sound is already there. I think i'm over complicating things.
But i'm still experiment some stuff... What i want it's just that low end clean and defined to layer with other mid range elements.

Higor
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25 Nov 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
23 Nov 2017
those reference mixes don't contain much low end. lower mids but they are lacking low end imo
Maybe if you listen to the wave files of the examples the quality gets better.

What about this? I think this is a Hofner bass...



I like that velvet low defined sound.

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selig
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25 Nov 2017

Higor wrote:
dana wrote:
24 Nov 2017
Have you tried using a bass amp simulator? Its usually my go-to if i need the upper bass harmonics to stand out.
I'm trying some set ups but what Selig said is true, when you have a good sample bass the sound is already there. I think i'm over complicating things.
But i'm still experiment some stuff... What i want it's just that low end clean and defined to layer with other mid range elements.
Sometimes getting “clean and defined” means dirtying it up a little bit (but not too much). I know it sounds counter intuitive, but that’s what a lot of the older records did by way of tube and tape (and inductor) saturation. The trick is not making it sound ‘distorted’ in any way, but adding sustain and definition by way of saturation. Worth exploring if you’ve not gone down that path before.


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Higor
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25 Nov 2017

I found this interesting to learn the variety of tones and have a better notion of options.




Higor
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25 Nov 2017

selig wrote:
25 Nov 2017
The trick is not making it sound ‘distorted’ in any way, but adding sustain and definition by way of saturation.
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The sustain is achieved by compression?

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selig
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25 Nov 2017

Higor wrote:
selig wrote:
25 Nov 2017
The trick is not making it sound ‘distorted’ in any way, but adding sustain and definition by way of saturation.
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The sustain is achieved by compression?
Saturation. It’s not often understood by all engineers, but almost every guitar player knows that what we variously call saturation, distortion, clipping - all increase sustain.

You also add energy at harmonics above the frequency feed into saturation, even of those harmonics were not present in the original.

It is these two qualities of saturation, sustain (which can be thought of as vertical density) and harmonics (which can be thought of as horizontal density) which together can often give us the end result of a ‘bigger, clearer’ sound.


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Marco Raaphorst
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26 Nov 2017

Higor wrote:
25 Nov 2017
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
23 Nov 2017
those reference mixes don't contain much low end. lower mids but they are lacking low end imo
Maybe if you listen to the wave files of the examples the quality gets better.

What about this? I think this is a Hofner bass...



I like that velvet low defined sound.
Clear bass. Still a light mix imo for modern times.

Here's a superb bass, with a soft bassdrum:


Motown (James Jamerson!) has lovely basses. They put the bass way loudly in the mix. Super easy trick just put the volume up :D

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Marco Raaphorst
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26 Nov 2017

Back in the day they dampened the bass strings. Using foam under the strings. That creates a HUGE low end. And distorts the tape machine :) But it is a superb effect. Because of sort decay notes won't sustain but you can make the bass sound loud in the mix because the notes are short. A damped bass you can put loudly in the mix. 100% Motown. And use some ODD harmonics saturation (The Echo can do that for example) to get that overdriven tape tone.

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Marco Raaphorst
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26 Nov 2017

Check out this old song using dampened bass (Jamerson!):


Notes are super short. Brilliant bass line of course. Chords are superb as well (complex harmony by Ashford & Simpson)

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geremix
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09 Dec 2017

Higor wrote:The bass is full and clean and you can hear every note in the low. I'm trying hard but i can't achieve this. I don't have a real bass. Can i get close to this using subtractor or some reason reffil?
Hey! Great songs! Lots of “saudade”!
If you want I can help you achieve that in Portuguese or in Spanish if you contact me by inbox.

Regards!



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G E R E M I X
@bygeremix

Higor
Posts: 121
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11 Dec 2017

geremix wrote:
09 Dec 2017
Higor wrote:The bass is full and clean and you can hear every note in the low. I'm trying hard but i can't achieve this. I don't have a real bass. Can i get close to this using subtractor or some reason reffil?
Hey! Great songs! Lots of “saudade”!
If you want I can help you achieve that in Portuguese or in Spanish if you contact me by inbox.

Regards!



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G E R E M I X
@bygeremix
I sent you an e-mail, thanks

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