Zero Pulse Width Modulation

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satyr32
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16 Apr 2017

I tried to recreate a Thor sound in Zero but failed miserably.
I just could not find out how the pulse width modulation works in Zero. Modulating the phase with an LFO seems to be answer, but it does not sound the same as in Thor.
E.g. my settings in Thor are an analog pulse osc with PW at 64 and then modulating with LFO1 sine (9.5Hz) and in the mod matrix LFO1 --> 44 --> Osc1 PWM.
In Zero it sound completly different even when i route Thor's LFO to it. Is Zero's phase even the same as PWM? (Also in AMMO modulating the Phase sound not at all like in Thor).
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Oquasec
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16 Apr 2017

You'd need to know if it was possible, and you'd also need to know both synths like the back of your hand.
Took a gander at zero's shop image and in the first 5 seconds I had a flashback of sytrus.
Is that exactly like sytrus or is that...another type of synthesis?...
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satyr32
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16 Apr 2017

i now could recreate the sound with TRES and as well as with VK-1. Maybe Zero is just not suited to recreate such simple "classic" sounds since it is especially amazing for FM sounds.
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Oquasec
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16 Apr 2017

In order to make a sound like thor's you'd have to not use the other 2 osc modules and only use one fm pair osc.
This plug looks like sytrus. You could make the same sounds, or make more sounds much faster if it is indeed a sytrus clone.

Looks like something I'd pick up with reason 10 hits also, nice find. For now I'll stick to nautilus/parsec for fm based sounds.
Thor does 6 types of synthesis if you do not use the modmatrix.
This synth does 3 types period. [but has 6 operators in stead of 2 by default in just one module but it's a specialized FM synth]
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satyr32
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16 Apr 2017

i never heard of sytrus but it looks like Zero is heavily inspired by sytrus. Even the envelopes are in the same order (Pan, Vol, Mod, Pitch, Phase). Then again Sytrus is heavily inspired by FM7 and FM8.
I know how FM works, but i wondered how to PWM with Zero only with a single osc without using FM.
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manisnotabird
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17 Apr 2017

The phase control on Zero has, *ahem*, zero to do with pulse width modulation. I used my trial of Zero quite a while back (close to when it came out), but I'm pretty sure you can't do pulse width modulation in Zero, and def. not in anything like a straightforward way.

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Oquasec
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17 Apr 2017

That would be a makeshift method as you would...do pwm usually with...square/pulse waves fella...
If you can make a pulse wave with the synth you can do proper [Not a custom method if that's not your goal] pulse-width-modulation.
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alex
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17 Apr 2017

satyr32 wrote:I tried to recreate a Thor sound in Zero but failed miserably.
I just could not find out how the pulse width modulation works in Zero. Modulating the phase with an LFO seems to be answer, but it does not sound the same as in Thor.
E.g. my settings in Thor are an analog pulse osc with PW at 64 and then modulating with LFO1 sine (9.5Hz) and in the mod matrix LFO1 --> 44 --> Osc1 PWM.
In Zero it sound completly different even when i route Thor's LFO to it. Is Zero's phase even the same as PWM? (Also in AMMO modulating the Phase sound not at all like in Thor).

In Zero each Oscillator (or Operator) can be shaped from a square wave to a pulse wave by changing the Shape knob from the 7,50 to 10,00 range values, and this is (I think) the actual PWM that you are looking for. Unfortunately in Zero it is not possible to modulate that Oscillator Shape knob, so it would seem impossible to do a PWM type of sound...

However (and luckily enough for us! :) ) there are at least two other ways or techniques to get the classic PWM sound.
The following video tutorial greatly explains both of them:



1.) the first one consists on combining one "straight saw" with one "inverted saw" (or, more precisely, one ramp up wave with one ramp down wave) and then changing the pitch/tune of one of the two, which produces that classical PWM sound.

2.) the second one involves the use of an FM synthesis "trick".

I've made a quick Zero patch to show the first case only. To hear it just pull the mod wheel. I must say that it works really well!
I believe that the second method should work too on Zero but I still haven't had the chance to try it.

Hope that helps. :)

Cheers!
Attachments
Zero - Lead - Faking PWM with two Saws 01 [MW] - CVX.zip
(3.81 KiB) Downloaded 54 times
The best things happen after reading the manual. ;)
:reason: :re: :refill: :ignition:

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satyr32
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17 Apr 2017

thank you alex. this is really interesting. the first method is a bit more phasey than usual, like a mix between PWM and detuned OSCs. But good enough for me.
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Blamsoft
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18 Apr 2017

With trick number 1, remember you can modulate operator phase in Zero. That would be more appropriate than pitch.

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Oquasec
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18 Apr 2017

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Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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alex
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22 Apr 2017

Blamsoft wrote:With trick number 1, remember you can modulate operator phase in Zero. That would be more appropriate than pitch.
Great suggestion! This is actually the most accurate way to do it, thank you Blamsoft!
So I've made an "improved" version of the PWM lead patch, this time modulating the Operator Phase with some other "features":

- Wider sound using 2 Unison voices + Detune
- LFO PWM speed controlled by Modifier X
- LFO PWM intensity controlled by Modifier Y
- Pitch Vibrato controlled by Modwheel

The fun begins when playing with the X/Y modifiers and different detune values!

Here's a short audio snippet showcasing the patch (there's some automation going on for detune and PWM speed)


Cheers! :)
Attachments
Zero - Lead - Faking PWM with two Saws 03 [MW] - CVX.zip
(3.93 KiB) Downloaded 43 times
The best things happen after reading the manual. ;)
:reason: :re: :refill: :ignition:

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eXode
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22 Apr 2017

I did a showcase of PWM in one of the factory patches of Zero: Alternative PWM in the Monosynths folder.

Quick explanation: Use two operators both set to sawtooth and then invert the second sawtooth and offset it's phase 180 degrees. Finally I modulate it's phase to get PWM.

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