Tweaking Samples Not In Concert Pitch

[HuskyInDenial]

I'm working on a project which uses old public domain jazz and swing samples, but I discovered as I started trying to add instrumentation around them that they don't seem to be tuned to concert pitch, 440. I'm having trouble using my ear to try to correct for it, and different samples from different songs are tuned differently, meaning I can't just alter the overall pitch in the preferences.

Tuning cent by cent and trying to figure out exactly how much the samples are off is actually making me nauseated. Is there an easier way to correct these older recordings so they're up to pitch? Something, maybe, that can help me match two tracks or something? Anything to make this grueling process easier?

Right now, I've been trying to use the pitch option in the preferences to guess at how far off a particular sample is, and then going into audacity to change the pitch there, and then add it back into the track. This does get a little tedious, and the results are less than stellar. Everything sounds wrong no matter how I tweak it, and like I said, I actually feel sick to my stomach. I'm kind of at my wit's end.

Any help would be incredibly appreciated.

[LABONERECORDINGS]

Try using Melda Production plugins in Audacity, use the MFreqShifter and/or MPitchShifter followed by their MAnalyser - you should get a very detailed clear result with the analyser, and if the Pitchshifter/FreqShifter is used prior so you can real-time check the end result you may find this will help.

FreqShifter moves frequencies up by a number of Hertz (very much like Echobode can), while Pitchshifter will move everything up in relative frequencies (ie by octave like NNXT, so Pitchshifting C2 + C3 by 1 octave would push old-C2 to new-C3, but old-C3 will go up to new-C5, being relative)

the Melda free plugins package is great you will get a 'nag' footer on each plugin and you can't resize the free versions, but for $49, you can unlock the 23 effects to resize. They are extremely lightweight on DSP, precise and you can get superb results from them.

Highly underrated.

[dancing fool]

I don't know if this is the same, but there is a frequency shifter in the shop.
[url]https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... ifter//url]

[selig]

Could be the samples are not in tune with themselves?

Otherwise, I'd do this by ear (happy to help with that if you like).

[HuskyInDenial]

Try using Melda Production plugins in Audacity, use the MFreqShifter and/or MPitchShifter followed by their MAnalyser - you should get a very detailed clear result with the analyser, and if the Pitchshifter/FreqShifter is used prior so you can real-time check the end result you may find this will help.

Thanks! I'll give this a shot!

I don't know if this is the same, but there is a frequency shifter in the shop.
[url]https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... ifter//url]

Not really the same, but pretty cool :3

Could be the samples are not in tune with themselves?

Otherwise, I'd do this by ear (happy to help with that if you like).

The samples sound perfectly fine on their own; I didn't notice anything was amiss until I tried adding a bassline. If it comes down to it, I might take you up on that help :3

Thanks for your quick responses, everyone! If anyone else has suggestions, please feel free to add!

[HuskyInDenial]

Try using Melda Production plugins in Audacity, use the MFreqShifter and/or MPitchShifter followed by their MAnalyser - you should get a very detailed clear result with the analyser, and if the Pitchshifter/FreqShifter is used prior so you can real-time check the end result you may find this will help.

Highly underrated.

These tools help a bunch! Though, I'm not really sure how to use the analyzer. I see that it shows frequency responses, but I don't really know all the other frequencies off 440

[househoppin09]

BTW--I've been looking for good public domain jazz and swing samples. Any chance you could reveal where you got them? Or PM me if preferred...

[HuskyInDenial]

BTW--I've been looking for good public domain jazz and swing samples. Any chance you could reveal where you got them? Or PM me if preferred...

yeah, no problem. They're free for everyone. No need to hide them :3

EDIT: well! I tried to post a link, and it did that! how about that? https://archive.org/details/Free_20s_Jazz_Collection

[HuskyInDenial]

UPDATE:

Alright, so, apparently Melodyne is a magical wonder tool. I saw some forums mentioning that it did polyphonic editing, and low and behold, it does, and it's stupid easy! I did in half an hour what I've been trying to do for two days!

And yes, it turned out the samples were also slightly out of tune with themselves, like selig suggested. Melodyne fixed that.

So, if anyone else has this problem, if your samples are reasonably in tune with themselves, you should have no problem using the free audacity suggestion from the first comment. But if you're really having trouble, you might give melodyne a try.

[LABONERECORDINGS]

These tools help a bunch! Though, I'm not really sure how to use the analyzer. I see that it shows frequency responses, but I don't really know all the other frequencies off 440

The analyser shows you the highest harmonics/frequencies, which include the frequency and the note on the keyboard, so it's helpful in both aspects. We use them all the time

[Marco Raaphorst]

Use the Reason tuner! Just route it to an Audio input channel I check the tuning.

NNXT has auto correct on tuning which works nicely in most cases.

[selig]

UPDATE:

Alright, so, apparently Melodyne is a magical wonder tool. I saw some forums mentioning that it did polyphonic editing, and low and behold, it does, and it's stupid easy! I did in half an hour what I've been trying to do for two days!

And yes, it turned out the samples were also slightly out of tune with themselves, like selig suggested. Melodyne fixed that.

So, if anyone else has this problem, if your samples are reasonably in tune with themselves, you should have no problem using the free audacity suggestion from the first comment. But if you're really having trouble, you might give melodyne a try.

Great to hear! One comment - you MAY find that some of the "out of tune with itself" is a part of the charm. I would suggest not "hard tuning" them 100% if you can get away with it. Not having heard the samples in question, and not knowing how you'll be using them, this is definitely a YMMV thing in my experience.

[HuskyInDenial]

Use the Reason tuner! Just route it to an Audio input channel I check the tuning.

NNXT has auto correct on tuning which works nicely in most cases.

The tuner is great for tuning, say, a guitar. But it doesn't really work on a multi-instrument recording, and it doesn't allow you to actually tweak the tuning. The NNXT's fine tuning function stretches the timing, so it doesn't stay in time with the beat.

Great to hear! One comment - you MAY find that some of the "out of tune with itself" is a part of the charm. I would suggest not "hard tuning" them 100% if you can get away with it. Not having heard the samples in question, and not knowing how you'll be using them, this is definitely a YMMV thing in my experience.

Well, yeah, I didn't plan on doing it 100%, although in some cases I was forced to because of the way it still clashed. It's a shame, though, it was ALMOST perfect, but I noticed a drop in quality if I tuned it too much. What I've ended up doing is backing the samples up with reason instruments so they have more oomph.

The analyser shows you the highest harmonics/frequencies, which include the frequency and the note on the keyboard, so it's helpful in both aspects. We use them all the time

I didn't understand how it was analyzing what I fed it, or what "apply" did when I hit it. And when I tried to adjust frequencies based on what I thought I was reading, it went way off.

[LABONERECORDINGS]

I didn't understand how it was analyzing what I fed it, or what "apply" did when I hit it. And when I tried to adjust frequencies based on what I thought I was reading, it went way off.

We're referring to the MAnalyser plugin by the way.

If you have a tweak with some of the settings, you can get a decent readable response curve. We've used it on drums to find the fundamental (or as close as), having a reasonable slow setting after the hit, so we have time to analyse. May take some time to get used to. If you can, wing us over a sample so we can have a look, may do a screencast of what we're doing to analyse and what we would do to tune / tweak it further.

When you say adjust frequencies... how or what are you using the adjust the frequencies? are you using pitch settings in NNXT? or did you look into using MFrequencyShifter? Just so we understand the process you've taken