How useful is Facebook for page promotion?

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Koncide
Posts: 64
Joined: 05 Jun 2015

19 Oct 2016

Hey guys, just wondering what people think to Facebook as a promotion medium these days, especially for artists.

The "pay to promote" feature really pisses me off. I can understand why Facebook do it, and if I ran a social networking site with billions of users and an obscenely large market I probably would do it as well. But it's not something I've ever done (pay for post reach that is), and I know guys who have and they have mixed feelings about it. Sure, it works, and they do end up getting a ton of new likes and post reach, but does that really translate into getting people to listen to your music? Does it translate into getting more gigs and selling your new EP?

I've found that if you don't pay, Facebook is almost useless. Your reach is likely to be less than 10% of your total likes. I'm an admin on a friend's page who has a far bigger presence than me, and it's actually quite depressing to see the tiny size of the audience to his posts. Like me, he has also never paid for posts.

Sure, it's nice to have a page with thousands of likes, but it just seems like an ego boost to me. What's the use in likes if you're not making awesome music and getting people to really enjoy your music?

Basically, has anyone ever found that paying on Facebook actually translates into tangible results?

It just seems really expensive to me. But I'm open to ideas, and would be really interested if someone has found it has really worked for them.

Any thoughts?
Ambient garage vibes.


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jonheal
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Location: Springfield, VA, USA
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19 Oct 2016

My wife does work for a homeless shelter. They are paying for posts (Boosting and Paid Ads) and they bust their chops posting and liking all the time, but it still seems hit or miss whether their supporters see the posts on their timelines.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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QVprod
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19 Oct 2016

Twitter and Instagram are much better. Just using popular yet relevant hashtags gets you considerably more attention. I think a Facebook Page is good to have, but I wouldn't rely on it much as my main for marketing.

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jonheal
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19 Oct 2016

My wife says that Facebook recently updated their algies so that friend's posts show up first in timelines, so depending on how active a person's friends are, promoted posts can be buried. There is a setting to show promoted posts first, but most folks don't know about it or don't bother setting it.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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Benedict
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19 Oct 2016

I don't think I get any gain from FB at all. I have read from some internet wise men, quite who I forget, but probably Seth Godin & Bob Lefsetz, that social media is all but a bust for actual attention. Sure you may get some likes but converting into action is almost non-existent and dropping. When the Web was young (up to year 2000), anything with something good to say did well but in the last few years in particular, most web users are only there to post about themselves. They read little and react to less every day.

The real question tho is how to convert browsers into buyers. That is also very hard these days as people aren't buying things they can stream. The new music listener isn't really a fan in the old sense of the word as they don't own a collection of things from their object of fanaticism. When I was a kid a Metal fan would own some Sabbath, Maiden, Priest and maybe something more obscure. It might be only four records but they owned them. They may have some "taped" material but ultimately the true fan wanted to own for the better quality and artwork. These days true fans are still there but even I have put my collection in the cupboard and carry it all on my phone (I still buy tho but I am a rarity). Many tho are going further and only subscribing to a service like Spotify. Your record may get a Like but in years I haven't made so much as a cent from them.

The good news is that true fan type people exist, we are just harder to find. But if we find you then we will still feel the need to 'collect' you at least once. Just be sure you provide what we need to make that conversion (which FB sites rarely offer).

This article series may offer you some help:
https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2015/05/1 ... ocal-area/

:)
Benedict Roff-Marsh
Completely burned and gone

Peter

19 Oct 2016

Useless. I have a personal page with artist friends that I use to blow off steam and it can be fun spouting off drunken words or showing premature WIP video clips. I did have a public page at some point and paid for some promo to see how it works. Promo reaches lots of people but a handful of people take the bait and then close to nothing happens after that. This is the reality IMO unless you are already established.

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NicolaAlexandraHajdu
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Joined: 18 Oct 2016
Location: Vienna - Austria
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19 Oct 2016

I can only underline the expressed opinions. The Social Media (especially Facebook) is about to become a graveyard. People in some parts of the World are not happy about the new restrictive politics and i'm even not touching on any famous Conspiracy Theory here. The reality is that our society structures are not made for winning but for loosing. That means, we are born for cheap labor work and only if you have "Vitamin B" (Beziehung = Connection) or born in a established family you get what is required to be played in the Mainstream called STATUS. It's not about talent anymore but appearance to perform pornographic rituals to manipulate preteens (social engineering). Let's be serious and honest to each other, ...regardless what Styles you are in for listening & composing, ...the Mainstream's Music business doesn't meet the artistic requirements anymore as used to be in the past nor do Mainstream POP-Honeys overshadow and outdo us "No Name Artists". They shine because the crowd is told to worship, that's the Magick, so to speak.

I don't have Google+ and Facebook anymore and probably will never reactive my Accounts. I don't need a collection of cold and lazy "likes" but just a "i love your music" comments at least. Money comes on the 2nd place but i would like to have more income to expand my studio an achieving freedom to spend on several other ideas of course, no doubt. I still have Youtube and might think of reactivating my Soundcloud for additional streaming pleasure aside Bandcamp. I have my doubts in any already available promotion plans because we are talking about BILLIONS of accounts who might attempt to use it. Who is going to fish out me, the unknown gold fish ? Right ? And i'm not interested in Music business in per se or otherwise i would go totally mainstream and not dwelling in Ambient Soundscapes, a genre for the dedicated minds who love deep listening, meditation music or soothing sounds for a change to relax to escape the stressful everyday's life. The Mainstream world has no place for us to get more spotlight because this is not how the system is supposed to be, let's face reality but don't get depressed as workarounds are always possible.

I noticed that most UNKNOWN Artists got more talent then the so-called acclaimed ones filled up with all kind awards in the butt to SHOW. I can't say that i'm able to swim in all kind of genres nor do i like to listen to every genre. So i record/create the kind of Art which means satisfaction for me and if it satisfies the listeners it makes me happy. Every Artist wants to get heard, i too. How does an UNKNOWN Artist get heard without Connection ? The answer ends within a vicious circle unless we learned the lesson that connection can be established between us, the Communities. For instance, ....Ambient lovers know Steve Roach. Some even know him from Magazines in the past where you could get demo tapes and then write him to request new music. The reality is this, ...if Roach would be a youngin today and started just recently he would have the same dilemma regardless his talent for sound shaping and improvisations of acoustic with digital instruments -> NO connection -> NO label -> NO credits for the Vita -> NO appearance in a Magazine. And he isn't Mainstream right ? The whole genre isn't but he is one of the well-known ones who helped to shape this genre through since the early 80s. He isn't as famous as Jean Michel Jarre whose father was already in the film music business. I heard about Steve Roach PER CHANCE, while streaming an Internet Radio station in 2004. I got a goose flesh when i heard the main track of the album "a deeper silence".

10 years back in the past was a different time with Internet. It was easier to get into their playlist. It became different, they don't need everyone's contribution, therefore it is safe to say that also the Internet Radio and not only the whole market is sated. I know they have still contact details for us to write them but forget them, they "most-likely" will never answer to get our music "for free". It isn't fair, i know but acceptance brings us forward for new methods. Connections need to be made by us and between us. And yes, with a bunch of efforts, the easy-cheesy times are definitively over. The success stories from acclaimed Bands, DJs, singer/songwriters, Soundpainters etc... can't hold as ultimate golden recipe for getting heard by millions. We don't know each other, we are depended on the given structures because we lack of community spirit amongst other important things, which i don't want to cover here because this is a Music forum.

My first brainstorming attempts lead to the following solutions:

.) If i manage to overcome my laziness i would use the good old propaganda methods on the street by spreading printouts everywhere.
Disadvantage: Time-consuming and requires a hell of money for printing and paper. A well-designed poster does catch more attention than a buried link. The hasty User who is already damn tired and occupied with the Hurry-Up society won't make to catch it. Google-Ranks don't meet the requirements, ...just test your patience and ask yourself if you were able to read through my roman word by word.

.) Community Projects:
a) Collaborations with other Artists who are dwelling on the same frequency range of the particular genre
b) Joining potential efforts to fund/build new Radio Stations that get promoted in the public.

I believe we could do that. Alone this forum has a noticeable user base to make such projects come truth. If every active Artist is willing to donate whatever he/she can it should be possible. Also hard & software developers are welcome to fund such a admittedly comprehensive project. They want more customers for their gear and software products while we want more listeners/fans to hear and hopefully buy our music. From nothing comes nothing and with action comes something. That's the background philosophy which many fail to see as important. I'm not uptodate about everyone's life of course but i can't imagine that nobody of the given Reason forums would have the passion and time to be,...

.) Promoter
.) Moderator
.) Studio & IT Admin
.) Web & Graphic designer
etc....

Alone this forum has skilled people of all sorts. Well, ...it's a matter of choice and question of how we spend our time. Do we just consume Movies, Videogames, Conspiracy Theories on Youtube etc... Or are we up to do something to get heard ? Some may have families and in turn may want to donate while others may want to contribute their knowledge & experience to make our own Radio station come true, which would accept every registered member of the Radio station's music to be played. I would even be willing to pay a fixed fee per year. The cooperation with other Stations and Labels can be established by time to build on a new Networks. That doesn't have to end with the Reason Community but can start here.

It's up to us. Some efforts are required to reach out to the mass step by step. I'm in awareness that i may have expressed only a crude idea but that's how things can start & develop further. Regarding idea a) i can't recall every nickname but i remember a few share the same passion for Ambient soundscapes as i do. What about a compilation where each participant contributes a soundscape for around a maximum of 10 minutes ? The more participants there more albums. I imagine "downloadable" albums to be released by let's say, ...Reason Talk.com on let's say Bandcamp, Itunes, Spotify ? Including a little spotlight on propellerhead.se ? I mean it's not that Propellerhead Reason is famous but also not unknown. Kill me for the crude brainstorming and long roman but better that than endless complaints about the missing success.

Much Love
Nicola

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mcatalao
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Joined: 17 Jan 2015

20 Oct 2016

Do you remember the infamous pic that said "Free Sex!!!". And then stated "now that i have your attention it's just that we have a new offer... ".

Facebook is this to the extreme. If you post a cat pic, you will have 10000 likes for that pic. If you post your music page, you get 1 or 2. It's a desert. I find amazing that my dog pics get more likes than the posts about my music. It really hurts (well in this case it is a mixed feeling because i like my dog... :) ) that people, where a great deal of them are people that you consider friends (or something like that) do not care about something that you did artistically. I don't even mean that people should get the cd, but at least, go and listen. But facebook is all wrong, if you have 1000 friends and post something serious like a music project, 100 will click like, but only 10 will go and listen.

IT's all fucked up.

PS.: I'm still one of those idiots that buy cd's... :/

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mcatalao
Competition Winner
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Joined: 17 Jan 2015

20 Oct 2016

Nicola,

You do more ethereal stuff, we're more or less in the same boat.
Here's the thing... Most times i show my music to people, the review i get is "it's nice, but it's not my style".
My stuff, is secondary, more like the sound track of a documentary. Maybe our only escape is to post our music to music libraries, and hope someone gets it for a movie or something like that.

I have a pop side project but it's also destined for ruin as it is in Portuguese, second we're old and ugly, third nowone knows us.
Anyway... I see people more interested in seeing "PPAP" than hearing real music. Make some stupid chiet, post it to facebook have publicit there, make money, and be fergotten some time after.
These are crappy odd times.

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Koncide
Posts: 64
Joined: 05 Jun 2015

20 Oct 2016

Some really interesting perspectives guys. Thanks! Glad I'm not the only one with misgivings.
Benedict wrote:This article series may offer you some help:
https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2015/05/1 ... ocal-area/
:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:
Ambient garage vibes.


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NicolaAlexandraHajdu
Posts: 34
Joined: 18 Oct 2016
Location: Vienna - Austria
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20 Oct 2016

Mcatalao i hear you. You are definitely not a sleepwalker and therefore aware about how and why our society seems to rot away but we need to be fair here. The sinking qualities of the POP culture & Media world reflects the collective's mindset of today. Harder than ever before. As long as we tune ourselves to the current Consumption by the "Enter"tainment industry and ride on the melancholic self-destructing drive the collective won't discover new ways to improve. Younger generations are stronger effected by it than any older generation before them. This is all by design because everything is focused on Status and Profit.

The indoctrinated programs have an influence on everybody, one more than others depending on life experience and level of awareness. What can someone expect from a society that seems to be hypnotized & totally depended on technology. I live in a city and i get to see all kind of people. Some are on my frequency and even don't stare like a junky into a smartphone. While others stare on a tablet, while wearing a Smart? Headset which is connected with the newest Smartphone. Some even go on the extremes to stand on a Elektro Scooter. I probably should get one to stay HIP, right ? We are obsessed with status and narcissism (hey like me for my Makeup or the TEN biggest fails Youtube attitude and press on the Donate and subsribe button although i care nothing for you but you should care for me because i'm your YOUTUBE star attitude).

In other words, if i were a kid or teenager these days i wouldn't have learned about compassion, self-responsibility, the importance of love and sense for "together" instead being absorbed by SMART? Technologies to cope the loneliness. I had hundreds of people in my telephone and there were always only a handful who i could call "real" friends. What means friendship today ? A subscribation to boost someone's ego, perhaps ? I can't blame the youngins for the missed changes to develop their personality, to become an unique character instead a trendsetting SMART gadget junkie who can't cope a day without Internet, GPS, Videogames and Movies. I'm not against technology or otherwise i wouldn't have my home studio here. And i noticed i'm way too much online, so i figured i should do more creative projects to remain as an original Human being who isn't just sitting down for an ongoing consumption.

I stopped to celebrate birthdays, a ritual which is beneficial for the health industry. I may have good genes because i stopped to age, which means i still look like between 25 - 30. I doubt that a vegan diet with Minerals and Vitamins does it all. We need also to detach from the programmed concepts as well. Our parents didn't know it any better, so they carried out the first programming. The Education system is about everything but not to raise a self aware human being of his/her own creative potential. We are drilled to just function as labor rats. That's how life is and it will change once we overcome the programmed concepts and replace it with something new. This doesn't mean a "Yoga mate and meditation exercise". The New Age Boom with Arc Angels and wallflower esoteric helps only to distract from ourselves while the problems remain as the culprit of the problems remains in tact.

Also Atheists are - automatically - practicing true spirituality by ignoring the Mainstream and Alternative Media while constantly being active and i don't mean work for cash & fame but exercising sports, doing gardening and or being involved in projects which are stimulating the creative potential available in everyone of us. I can't achieve true happiness by fame, money, merely via meditation or worshiping an entity. I'm only happy when i'm creative and see what kind of fruits come to happen through me. And the happiness level can be topped by coming together with others to share the same happiness. Most communities of today lack of those principles. And the Social Media is the worst place to connect with others where the term "friendship" means nothing more than another number and eye to satisfy the narcissistic mind. A certain degree of that is healthy and natural but it gotten to a point where i have to say, ....good night dear Homo Sapiens, i can't see how the future generations will be able to connect with each other.

Back in time it was far easier to have more "real" friends than today. I also want to spread hope as i can see plenty people to wake up and questioning the obvious oddities within our society. Back to the "promote my music topic", ... there are plenty music libraries who are hosting a vast range of genres for free. They offer free downloads for the usual consumption while they ask to buy a license once a commercial use is intended. I bet this kind of libraries are sated too already but nothing can stop the enthusiast from trying. In our unique case with Ambient/Ethereal music we could also contact Holistic Doctors, Yoga teachers etc... I'm also speculating with a certain TV channel which also broadcasts via the Astra Satellite. With around 500 euro for an half hour of presentation or less, if i just want them to add my self-produced commercial, ....everything possible since this year.

The downside is money related of course. I'm still attracted to a community-driven approach such building a Radio station, a Community album for each genre and if not Radio than our own Music library under a domain name which makes sense.

Much Love
Nicola

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