Hi hat mixing question

[Staarchylld]

I was wondering if there was a way to get the high hats to sound right at the edge or right over the edge of being too loud but still sitting very low in the mix?


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[Loque]

Imo there is not THE way to mit it, but as a rule of thumb: higher frequencies are heard louder by the ear, the more high frequencies you hear loud the more your ears get tired and it feels annoying.

To make them fit, i try different speakers, eg mobile phone or headphones. I check out the FFT and the curve should go slightly down on higher frequencies and not to many peaks.

But finally its a matter of taste and some tracks use very quiet hi hats and some don't use any.

[Staarchylld]

Thanks for the reply. I was very tired when I wrote that and hadn't had a chance to think. I just realized I can possibly record them hot then bounce that to audio and possibly get the desired effect.


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[selig]

Thanks for the reply. I was very tired when I wrote that and hadn't had a chance to think. I just realized I can possibly record them hot then bounce that to audio and possibly get the desired effect.


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Do you mean real hats, sampled hats, or synthesized hats?

A general rule would be a broader band of frequencies can sound louder than a more narrow band, so anything that turns hats more to "noise" spreads out the energy over a wider range and can sound louder because no single frequency will dominate. Sometimes I use noise to synthesize hats for this reason (maybe slightly filtering the lows out), or saturate a sample or real hats to achieve something similar.

[Staarchylld]

Oh sorry I forgot to say. I'm using samples. And I'm not going for it just sounding louder. I'm going for that awesome "sizzle"quality I hear in the 70s and 80s hi hats.


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[Staarchylld]

Thanks for the reply. I was very tired when I wrote that and hadn't had a chance to think. I just realized I can possibly record them hot then bounce that to audio and possibly get the desired effect.


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Do you mean real hats, sampled hats, or synthesized hats?

A general rule would be a broader band of frequencies can sound louder than a more narrow band, so anything that turns hats more to "noise" spreads out the energy over a wider range and can sound louder because no single frequency will dominate. Sometimes I use noise to synthesize hats for this reason (maybe slightly filtering the lows out), or saturate a sample or real hats to achieve something similar.

So besides using the saturation knob. How would I accomplished saturation?


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[selig]

Thanks for the reply. I was very tired when I wrote that and hadn't had a chance to think. I just realized I can possibly record them hot then bounce that to audio and possibly get the desired effect.


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Do you mean real hats, sampled hats, or synthesized hats?

A general rule would be a broader band of frequencies can sound louder than a more narrow band, so anything that turns hats more to "noise" spreads out the energy over a wider range and can sound louder because no single frequency will dominate. Sometimes I use noise to synthesize hats for this reason (maybe slightly filtering the lows out), or saturate a sample or real hats to achieve something similar.

So besides using the saturation knob. How would I accomplished saturation?


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Try them all and see which does it best for you. That would include Pulveriser and Scream, plus things like Alligator and The Echo that have saturation/distortion options. You never know what will work since it's dependent not only on your expectations but also the source material.

Obviously, choose the samples that already come the closest to what you're looking for in the first place, and also consider filter/EQ options as well.



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[marcuswitt]

Oh sorry I forgot to say. I'm using samples. And I'm not going for it just sounding louder. I'm going for that awesome "sizzle"quality I hear in the 70s and 80s hi hats.


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To achieve that kind of sound I can highly recommend to utilize a Ring Modulator. I often put a Ring Modulator on sampled Hihats, either in the Insert slot of the actual Hihat channel or in form of a parallel channel, depending on the respective sound character that I am trying to approach. It works very well on Hihats coming from a Linn Drum, an Oberheim DMX or such things. KONG has a nice Ring Modulator, but also Malström's audio input led into Malström's Amplitude Modulator can be used to get that 70's and 80's sound of ringing but not biting Hihats.

[gak]

I'm not sure with electronics.....but in real drums the hats are buried way too often. If you have a loop and need to get them more present some compressors will work.

Ok, just needed to vent that, now back to scheduled programming

[Staarchylld]

Thanks for the reply. I was very tired when I wrote that and hadn't had a chance to think. I just realized I can possibly record them hot then bounce that to audio and possibly get the desired effect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you mean real hats, sampled hats, or synthesized hats?

A general rule would be a broader band of frequencies can sound louder than a more narrow band, so anything that turns hats more to "noise" spreads out the energy over a wider range and can sound louder because no single frequency will dominate. Sometimes I use noise to synthesize hats for this reason (maybe slightly filtering the lows out), or saturate a sample or real hats to achieve something similar.

So besides using the saturation knob. How would I accomplished saturation?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Try them all and see which does it best for you. That would include Pulveriser and Scream, plus things like Alligator and The Echo that have saturation/distortion options. You never know what will work since it's dependent not only on your expectations but also the source material.

Obviously, choose the samples that already come the closest to what you're looking for in the first place, and also consider filter/EQ options as well.



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Thanks Selig I always appreciate any advice you give


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[Staarchylld]

Oh sorry I forgot to say. I'm using samples. And I'm not going for it just sounding louder. I'm going for that awesome "sizzle"quality I hear in the 70s and 80s hi hats.


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To achieve that kind of sound I can highly recommend to utilize a Ring Modulator. I often put a Ring Modulator on sampled Hihats, either in the Insert slot of the actual Hihat channel or in form of a parallel channel, depending on the respective sound character that I am trying to approach. It works very well on Hihats coming from a Linn Drum, an Oberheim DMX or such things. KONG has a nice Ring Modulator, but also Malström's audio input led into Malström's Amplitude Modulator can be used to get that 70's and 80's sound of ringing but not biting Hihats.

I'm going to have to give that a try as I'm very curious to hear how that sounds. Thanks for the help


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[Staarchylld]

I'm not sure with electronics.....but in real drums the hats are buried way too often. If you have a loop and need to get them more present some compressors will work.

Ok, just needed to vent that, now back to scheduled programming

Lol that's what I loved about those hi hats. To me they were very low but very sharp and clear.


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[selig]

I'm not sure with electronics.....but in real drums the hats are buried way too often. If you have a loop and need to get them more present some compressors will work.

Ok, just needed to vent that, now back to scheduled programming

As a drummer and recording engineer, more often the hats bleed into everything too much. Just helped someone with this yesterday! Because of this, as a drummer I'm asked to play the hats softer, and as an engineer I've not used a hi hat microphone 99% of the time and STILL had the occasional issue with too much HH in the drum mix.

This is typically because as you brighten up the snare and overheads, up comes the hi hats. If you compress the snare, which I do not always do, up come the hats.

IMO cymbals (the instruments) in general have become brighter over the years, beginning in the 70s/80s. Before that, many drummers used older cymbals that were often almost green with age. In those days you brightened up recorded drums, and the cymbals now sizzled and shined. Live drummers were seeking that same sound and choose brighter cymbals (I know I did when purchasing my first "new" kit/cymbals in the late 70s). But when you take those new bright cymbals into the studio, there's no room to add brightness because the cymbals are already brighter than the rest of the kit. Can sound good in the room to the drummer, but not to the microphones.

This is of course just my opinion as an observer, listener, drummer, and recording engineer, and I'm sure there are those who would not agree with this point of view.

[Dabbler]

Reminds me of the QOTSA album where the cymbals were dubbed.

[Loque]

For a recorded drumloop i would use a multiband compressor or upleveler like Splex or Dyne...
Alternativle split bands and use Leveler or whatever compressor.

[selig]

For a recorded drumloop i would use a multiband compressor or upleveler like Splex or Dyne...
Alternativle split bands and use Leveler or whatever compressor.

Further…
REX files come in handy here, as you can separate the hats to some degree. Of course the slices where there's a hat and a kick or snare playing at the same time can be problematic, but sometimes you can find an isolated kick or snare that can be substituted allowing you to assign the hats cleanly to a separate output.

Also, and possibly counter intuitive, you can reduce the hats in the loop with multi-band or dynamic EQ or assigning REX slices to separate outs (muting them), and then replace them with samples you prefer playing the part you want at the level you want.

Lots of different ways around these issues, which is why it's good to have multiple solutions available - if one doesn't work, try another!



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[KenK]

Very interesting discussion! I have always been interesting in how to mix hi hats and I have noticed on some songs I can hear them so clearly and others they almost disappear, this thread has given me a lot to think about. Thanks!

[Staarchylld]

Oh sorry I forgot to say. I'm using samples. And I'm not going for it just sounding louder. I'm going for that awesome "sizzle"quality I hear in the 70s and 80s hi hats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To achieve that kind of sound I can highly recommend to utilize a Ring Modulator. I often put a Ring Modulator on sampled Hihats, either in the Insert slot of the actual Hihat channel or in form of a parallel channel, depending on the respective sound character that I am trying to approach. It works very well on Hihats coming from a Linn Drum, an Oberheim DMX or such things. KONG has a nice Ring Modulator, but also Malström's audio input led into Malström's Amplitude Modulator can be used to get that 70's and 80's sound of ringing but not biting Hihats.

So I added the synapse ring mod and synapse filer. its pretty close to what im after. all great advice thanks!