Mastering the Master Compressor

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EdGrip
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Post 03 Jun 2016

Hello all!
First post here, but I've done plenty of lurking. Sorry to dig up an old thread.

Here's the question that roused me to register - maybe it's one that other people reading this thread are asking.

I assume that ideally, maximizers would be LAST in the chain, AFTER the master bus compressor - because the MBC wants a non-hard-limited signal to squish.

So is there a way to get a pre-MBC full-mix audio out to feed our high-pass sidechain signal, BUT keep inserts like the maximizer AFTER the master bus compressor?

Or do we need to bounce the full compressed mix to audio, and then master it?

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cosignsessions
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Post 03 Jun 2016

@EdGrip I'm not sure I am following the question correctly. Do you want to control the MBC by having it listen to a sidechain mix? You can do that by bouncing the mix and sidechain the MBC to listen to it. In other DAWs you can create a 'back buss' that controls the MBC sidechain. Basically a sub mix of the mix you are sending to the 2-buss. It would be great if R9 let you route a channel to multiple buss/submix channels on the mixer (is this already possible? I'm not sure because I haven't had the need to try it). Easiest way I know would be to bounce the mix and import it back in the session to sidechain to the MBC. That way you can tailor the filters as needed. I may be misunderstanding the question altogether and this response offers no help.

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selig
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Post 03 Jun 2016

If I understand you correctly, my solution (for a few reasons) is to patch the Maximizer between the Master Output and the Hardware Interface. Then I make sure the COMPRESSOR PRE INSERTS button is engaged in the Master Section. From there I put a Stereo Imager in the insert and patch the outputs into the Key input of the Master Compressor. I don't connect the output of the Stereo Imager to the Inserts "From Devices" jack, for one because it's unnecessary. Make sure to use the SOLO HI BAND button to complete the setup process (or use the Separate Output and set it to HI BAND, and DON'T use the SOLO HI BAND on the front panel). Using the Separate Output for the Key input allows you to add Look Ahead to this setup by patching a delay between the Stereo Imager main output and the From Devices jacks! There are only two pairs of cables required for this setup (when not using look ahead).

Another reason for patching the Maximizer AFTER the Master Outputs (and therefore after the Master Fader) is because I use Ozone and it's built in dither, and once you add dither you shouldn't do ANYTHING to the signal (all dither works this way). This is why other DAWs like Pro Tools have their master faders inserts set to "post master fader" with no way to change them. In Reason this setup allows me to use the Master Fader for a fade out, if desired.
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Blast
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Post 03 Jun 2016

selig wrote:If I understand you correctly, my solution (for a few reasons) is to patch the Maximizer between the Master Output and the Hardware Interface. Then I make sure the COMPRESSOR PRE INSERTS button is engaged in the Master Section. From there I put a Stereo Imager in the insert and patch the outputs into the Key input of the Master Compressor. I don't connect the output of the Stereo Imager to the Inserts "From Devices" jack, for one because it's unnecessary. Make sure to use the SOLO HI BAND button to complete the setup process (or use the Separate Output and set it to HI BAND, and DON'T use the SOLO HI BAND on the front panel). Using the Separate Output for the Key input allows you to add Look Ahead to this setup by patching a delay between the Stereo Imager main output and the From Devices jacks! There are only two pairs of cables required for this setup (when not using look ahead).

Another reason for patching the Maximizer AFTER the Master Outputs (and therefore after the Master Fader) is because I use Ozone and it's built in dither, and once you add dither you shouldn't do ANYTHING to the signal (all dither works this way). This is why other DAWs like Pro Tools have their master faders inserts set to "post master fader" with no way to change them. In Reason this setup allows me to use the Master Fader for a fade out, if desired.
I like your idea Selig, but what if I want to use other effects as inserts on the master bus and I want the master compressor to be last in the cain before hitting the maximizer, how do i go about doing so?

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selig
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Post 04 Jun 2016

Blast wrote:
selig wrote:If I understand you correctly, my solution (for a few reasons) is to patch the Maximizer between the Master Output and the Hardware Interface. Then I make sure the COMPRESSOR PRE INSERTS button is engaged in the Master Section. From there I put a Stereo Imager in the insert and patch the outputs into the Key input of the Master Compressor. I don't connect the output of the Stereo Imager to the Inserts "From Devices" jack, for one because it's unnecessary. Make sure to use the SOLO HI BAND button to complete the setup process (or use the Separate Output and set it to HI BAND, and DON'T use the SOLO HI BAND on the front panel). Using the Separate Output for the Key input allows you to add Look Ahead to this setup by patching a delay between the Stereo Imager main output and the From Devices jacks! There are only two pairs of cables required for this setup (when not using look ahead).

Another reason for patching the Maximizer AFTER the Master Outputs (and therefore after the Master Fader) is because I use Ozone and it's built in dither, and once you add dither you shouldn't do ANYTHING to the signal (all dither works this way). This is why other DAWs like Pro Tools have their master faders inserts set to "post master fader" with no way to change them. In Reason this setup allows me to use the Master Fader for a fade out, if desired.
I like your idea Selig, but what if I want to use other effects as inserts on the master bus and I want the master compressor to be last in the cain before hitting the maximizer, how do i go about doing so?
Simple - put them before the Stereo imager using the second routing option I suggested. :)


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Voyager
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Post 07 Dec 2016

Selig,

So with the way you set the master compressor sidechain this means you can't add any mastering devices in the master section insert anymore since you set it as pre compressor right ? I guess the master devices you want to add are between the master out and the audio interface like your Ozone, i am right or i misunderstand the whole concept ? :redface:

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selig
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Post 07 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:Selig,

So with the way you set the master compressor sidechain this means you can't add any mastering devices in the master section insert anymore since you set it as pre compressor right ? I guess the master devices you want to add are between the master out and the audio interface like your Ozone, i am right or i misunderstand the whole concept ? :redface:
Yes, Ozone (because I use it for dither) MUST come last, and after the master fader, if used. The place for it is between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface. If you think about it, this is where mastering "should" take place if you send your mix to a mastering engineer - after the final output of the mixer.

Ultimately I would want a "mastering" section here, similar to an insert, where you can put all your mastering devices - but that's another subject entirely…
;)


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Voyager
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Post 07 Dec 2016

selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:Selig,

So with the way you set the master compressor sidechain this means you can't add any mastering devices in the master section insert anymore since you set it as pre compressor right ? I guess the master devices you want to add are between the master out and the audio interface like your Ozone, i am right or i misunderstand the whole concept ? :redface:
Yes, Ozone (because I use it for dither) MUST come last, and after the master fader, if used. The place for it is between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface. If you think about it, this is where mastering "should" take place if you send your mix to a mastering engineer - after the final output of the mixer.

Ultimately I would want a "mastering" section here, similar to an insert, where you can put all your mastering devices - but that's another subject entirely…
;)


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So if i understand correctly, while you are mixing or mastering, in the master section insert you always have only the stereo imager for the sidechain compression, nothing else right ?

And where do you put your mastering devices then ? still in the master section insert or outside in the rack ?

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selig
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Post 07 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:Selig,

So with the way you set the master compressor sidechain this means you can't add any mastering devices in the master section insert anymore since you set it as pre compressor right ? I guess the master devices you want to add are between the master out and the audio interface like your Ozone, i am right or i misunderstand the whole concept ? :redface:
Yes, Ozone (because I use it for dither) MUST come last, and after the master fader, if used. The place for it is between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface. If you think about it, this is where mastering "should" take place if you send your mix to a mastering engineer - after the final output of the mixer.

Ultimately I would want a "mastering" section here, similar to an insert, where you can put all your mastering devices - but that's another subject entirely…
;)


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So if i understand correctly, while you are mixing or mastering, in the master section insert you always have only the stereo imager for the sidechain compression, nothing else right ?

And where do you put your mastering devices then ? still in the master section insert or outside in the rack ?
I put them to the left of the master section, to keep them visually separate. This typically only includes a Selig Gain followed by Ozone (bypassed until the end of the mix). Selig Gain is there so I can have my "pre master" peaks hit around -6 to -3 dBFS, just in case I send the track off to a proper mastering engineer!
:)


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Voyager
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Post 08 Dec 2016

selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:Selig,

So with the way you set the master compressor sidechain this means you can't add any mastering devices in the master section insert anymore since you set it as pre compressor right ? I guess the master devices you want to add are between the master out and the audio interface like your Ozone, i am right or i misunderstand the whole concept ? :redface:
Yes, Ozone (because I use it for dither) MUST come last, and after the master fader, if used. The place for it is between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface. If you think about it, this is where mastering "should" take place if you send your mix to a mastering engineer - after the final output of the mixer.

Ultimately I would want a "mastering" section here, similar to an insert, where you can put all your mastering devices - but that's another subject entirely…
;)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So if i understand correctly, while you are mixing or mastering, in the master section insert you always have only the stereo imager for the sidechain compression, nothing else right ?

And where do you put your mastering devices then ? still in the master section insert or outside in the rack ?
I put them to the left of the master section, to keep them visually separate. This typically only includes a Selig Gain followed by Ozone (bypassed until the end of the mix). Selig Gain is there so I can have my "pre master" peaks hit around -6 to -3 dBFS, just in case I send the track off to a proper mastering engineer!
:)


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I knew we could place things on the right side of the rack but not the left, nice :puf_smile:

So you use the selig gain digital peak meter to get a more precise dB reading instead having to use the master big meter right ?

About the master compressor sidechain set in "pre" i notice that when i switch from "pre" to "post" i don't see any difference in the compressor, it's still use the sidechain filtering signal to compress, any reason to that ?

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selig
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Post 10 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:Selig,

So with the way you set the master compressor sidechain this means you can't add any mastering devices in the master section insert anymore since you set it as pre compressor right ? I guess the master devices you want to add are between the master out and the audio interface like your Ozone, i am right or i misunderstand the whole concept ? :redface:
Yes, Ozone (because I use it for dither) MUST come last, and after the master fader, if used. The place for it is between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface. If you think about it, this is where mastering "should" take place if you send your mix to a mastering engineer - after the final output of the mixer.

Ultimately I would want a "mastering" section here, similar to an insert, where you can put all your mastering devices - but that's another subject entirely…
;)


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So if i understand correctly, while you are mixing or mastering, in the master section insert you always have only the stereo imager for the sidechain compression, nothing else right ?

And where do you put your mastering devices then ? still in the master section insert or outside in the rack ?
I put them to the left of the master section, to keep them visually separate. This typically only includes a Selig Gain followed by Ozone (bypassed until the end of the mix). Selig Gain is there so I can have my "pre master" peaks hit around -6 to -3 dBFS, just in case I send the track off to a proper mastering engineer!
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I knew we could place things on the right side of the rack but not the left, nice :puf_smile:

So you use the selig gain digital peak meter to get a more precise dB reading instead having to use the master big meter right ?

About the master compressor sidechain set in "pre" i notice that when i switch from "pre" to "post" i don't see any difference in the compressor, it's still use the sidechain filtering signal to compress, any reason to that ?
I mainly use the peak hold display so that I don't have to sit and watch the meter to know what the highest peak was on a given track.

The pre/post thing is going to be subtle, it's the difference between the compressor reacting to the input signal vs reacting to it's own output signal. When you switch to post, the compressor is reacting to it's own already-compressed output, more like a feed back vs a feed forward compressor model. But with side-chain filtering you should hear more of a difference, though you may have to exaggerate the settings for this to be more obvious.

But the bigger issue would be if you used additional processing in the insert, such as EQ, because now it's an EQ/Compressor, vs Compressor/EQ issue.
:)
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Carly(Poohbear)
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Post 10 Dec 2016

selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:Selig,

So with the way you set the master compressor sidechain this means you can't add any mastering devices in the master section insert anymore since you set it as pre compressor right ? I guess the master devices you want to add are between the master out and the audio interface like your Ozone, i am right or i misunderstand the whole concept ? :redface:
Yes, Ozone (because I use it for dither) MUST come last, and after the master fader, if used. The place for it is between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface. If you think about it, this is where mastering "should" take place if you send your mix to a mastering engineer - after the final output of the mixer.

Ultimately I would want a "mastering" section here, similar to an insert, where you can put all your mastering devices - but that's another subject entirely…
;)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So if i understand correctly, while you are mixing or mastering, in the master section insert you always have only the stereo imager for the sidechain compression, nothing else right ?

And where do you put your mastering devices then ? still in the master section insert or outside in the rack ?
I put them to the left of the master section, to keep them visually separate. This typically only includes a Selig Gain followed by Ozone (bypassed until the end of the mix). Selig Gain is there so I can have my "pre master" peaks hit around -6 to -3 dBFS, just in case I send the track off to a proper mastering engineer!
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I knew we could place things on the right side of the rack but not the left, nice :puf_smile:

So you use the selig gain digital peak meter to get a more precise dB reading instead having to use the master big meter right ?

About the master compressor sidechain set in "pre" i notice that when i switch from "pre" to "post" i don't see any difference in the compressor, it's still use the sidechain filtering signal to compress, any reason to that ?
I mainly use the peak hold display so that I don't have to sit and watch the meter to know what the highest peak was on a given track.

The pre/post thing is going to be subtle, it's the difference between the compressor reacting to the input signal vs reacting to it's own output signal. When you switch to post, the compressor is reacting to it's own already-compressed output, more like a feed back vs a feed forward compressor model. But with side-chain filtering you should hear more of a difference, though you may have to exaggerate the settings for this to be more obvious.

But the bigger issue would be if you used additional processing in the insert, such as EQ, because now it's an EQ/Compressor, vs Compressor/EQ issue.
:)
This is deja-vu to me and I'm glad I have just read this, as I opened up an old project this morning and guess what I have done this, must have seen that video when it came out and thought that sounds like a good idea (still trying to learn all this stuff, I'm a man with a little bit of knowledge and I know that is very dangerous as you will see with one of my questions, DOH!!!!).. but then while I was cleaning this afternoon my brain was more worried that I'm missing the bits I want to compress as the signal has already been processed and this thread has confirmed that, so thank you.

So a question more related to this thread, surely there is no reason that you can still have you master effects in the master section (except for the final maximiser, like you I have that between the master out and audio in and again like you mainly for the dithering, so at least I have had that bit right :) ) and on the final master effect have that going through say a Spider audio splitter, splitting one signal back to the master bus and the other going through your stereo splitter which turn goes to the Sidechain input? (and I'm talking inserts pre-compressor here)


This thread has set other thoughts in my head and this is going to make me sound very ignorant but what is the real point of filtered sidechaining on the master signal, as I have a filtered signal and compression will only happen when that signal is present on the sidechain but when it is, the whole signal on the master bus is processed, e.g I have a bass and bass drum playing, then a high note from a synth comes in and as I'm filtering high end freq. the bass and drum will now have compression applied as well, is this for real subtle compression? i.e helps with the leveling of the whole mix?
(I just been playing with my mix I think I used the master compressor more for the make up gain, which was a bit silly as later on I'm reducing the gain, maybe my ears ain't that good in my old age as I turned off the master compressor and reduced the gain I was reducing (too many negatives there) and it sounded the same...)

Thanks..

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selig
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Post 10 Dec 2016

Carly(Poohbear) wrote: This is deja-vu to me and I'm glad I have just read this, as I opened up an old project this morning and guess what I have done this, must have seen that video when it came out and thought that sounds like a good idea (still trying to learn all this stuff, I'm a man with a little bit of knowledge and I know that is very dangerous as you will see with one of my questions, DOH!!!!).. but then while I was cleaning this afternoon my brain was more worried that I'm missing the bits I want to compress as the signal has already been processed and this thread has confirmed that, so thank you.

So a question more related to this thread, surely there is no reason that you can still have you master effects in the master section (except for the final maximiser, like you I have that between the master out and audio in and again like you mainly for the dithering, so at least I have had that bit right :) ) and on the final master effect have that going through say a Spider audio splitter, splitting one signal back to the master bus and the other going through your stereo splitter which turn goes to the Sidechain input? (and I'm talking inserts pre-compressor here)


This thread has set other thoughts in my head and this is going to make me sound very ignorant but what is the real point of filtered sidechaining on the master signal, as I have a filtered signal and compression will only happen when that signal is present on the sidechain but when it is, the whole signal on the master bus is processed, e.g I have a bass and bass drum playing, then a high note from a synth comes in and as I'm filtering high end freq. the bass and drum will now have compression applied as well, is this for real subtle compression? i.e helps with the leveling of the whole mix?
(I just been playing with my mix I think I used the master compressor more for the make up gain, which was a bit silly as later on I'm reducing the gain, maybe my ears ain't that good in my old age as I turned off the master compressor and reduced the gain I was reducing (too many negatives there) and it sounded the same...)

Thanks..
You can still have effects in the master section, but they will all be "pre compressor". If you want "post compressor" simply put them between the Master Output and the Hardware Interface inputs with your limiter etc.

If you use a Stereo Imager for the side-chain filtering, you don't need a spider - just use the main outs to feed the "From Devices" jacks.

Filtered side-chain allows low frequency instruments to compress the same as high. In some cases, many cases actually, the kick will cause more gain reduction than other instruments, which "pumps" the mix. If you raise the threshold so the mix doesn't pump, you ONLY get compression on the kick. BUT, if you filter the side-chain by the correct amount, you can get equal compression on ALL main instruments.

There is another application for this concept, on a vocal channel where you EQ the side chain signal by boosting the sibilance range. Then you compress with a fast attack/high ratio/fast release so that ONLY the sibilance causes compression. Instant "de-essing". You don't actually hear the EQ, so you don't end up boosting the sibilance in the mix. You then set the threshold so that you get compression only on sibilance, and set the ratio so that you get the desired about of sibilance reduction.

And yes, sometimes after messing with a compressor for hours, you can "level match" it, bypass it, and find you're not really adding anything of value. On those occasions, I find it best to bypass the compressor and move on!
;)
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Carly(Poohbear)
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Post 10 Dec 2016

selig wrote: If you use a Stereo Imager for the side-chain filtering, you don't need a spider - just use the main outs to feed the "From Devices" jacks.
My bad I did not realise if you don't set the width and leave it neutral it's bypassed..

selig wrote: Filtered side-chain allows low frequency instruments to compress the same as high. In some cases, many cases actually, the kick will cause more gain reduction than other instruments, which "pumps" the mix. If you raise the threshold so the mix doesn't pump, you ONLY get compression on the kick. BUT, if you filter the side-chain by the correct amount, you can get equal compression on ALL main instruments.
OK I got you here...

selig wrote: And yes, sometimes after messing with a compressor for hours, you can "level match" it, bypass it, and find you're not really adding anything of value. On those occasions, I find it best to bypass the compressor and move on!
;)
Done :D (in fact I have done a lot better on this mix without it)

Cheers for your valuable input...

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Voyager
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Post 11 Dec 2016

selig wrote:I mainly use the peak hold display so that I don't have to sit and watch the meter to know what the highest peak was on a given track.
Ok so i guess you use the device on each of your tracks.
selig wrote:The pre/post thing is going to be subtle, it's the difference between the compressor reacting to the input signal vs reacting to it's own output signal. When you switch to post, the compressor is reacting to it's own already-compressed output, more like a feed back vs a feed forward compressor model. But with side-chain filtering you should hear more of a difference, though you may have to exaggerate the settings for this to be more obvious.

But the bigger issue would be if you used additional processing in the insert, such as EQ, because now it's an EQ/Compressor, vs Compressor/EQ issue.
:)
Sort of understand, but i though that if you select "post" then the bus compressor comes after the sidechain and thus should not be affected ( on/off like ) which seems not to be the case. In this case when i'm on post i still can affect the compressor by using the sidechain filter. I tried to push the settings hard but can't hear any difference between "pre" or "post" except if i'm doing something wrong..

Actually if on "post" isn't normaly the compressor coming last in the signal chain ?

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selig
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Post 11 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:I mainly use the peak hold display so that I don't have to sit and watch the meter to know what the highest peak was on a given track.
Ok so i guess you use the device on each of your tracks.
selig wrote:The pre/post thing is going to be subtle, it's the difference between the compressor reacting to the input signal vs reacting to it's own output signal. When you switch to post, the compressor is reacting to it's own already-compressed output, more like a feed back vs a feed forward compressor model. But with side-chain filtering you should hear more of a difference, though you may have to exaggerate the settings for this to be more obvious.

But the bigger issue would be if you used additional processing in the insert, such as EQ, because now it's an EQ/Compressor, vs Compressor/EQ issue.
:)
Sort of understand, but i though that if you select "post" then the bus compressor comes after the sidechain and thus should not be affected ( on/off like ) which seems not to be the case. In this case when i'm on post i still can affect the compressor by using the sidechain filter. I tried to push the settings hard but can't hear any difference between "pre" or "post" except if i'm doing something wrong..

Actually if on "post" isn't normaly the compressor coming last in the signal chain ?
By "track" I meant "song". You don't need to put a separate Gain on each track unless you change levels - measure once and adjust volume on device, shift-drag to the next track, measure and adjust volume on the device, repeat. You can even delete that Gain when you're done setting levels. But I always keep one just in front of Ozone.

If you select Inserts Post Compressor (that is, if you do NOT select "INSERT PRE COMPRESSOR), the Master Compressor comes BEFORE the insert. This is the opposite of what you said… ;)

I know this is confusing, and I've even suggested that Props add that handy routing display from the top of each of the channels to the Master Section so you can SEE what the actual routing order is.
:)
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Voyager
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Post 11 Dec 2016

selig wrote:By "track" I meant "song". You don't need to put a separate Gain on each track unless you change levels - measure once and adjust volume on device, shift-drag to the next track, measure and adjust volume on the device, repeat. You can even delete that Gain when you're done setting levels. But I always keep one just in front of Ozone.
Ok, actually i check my peaks on the big meter but i set it to infinte to see where my peak is sitting.
selig wrote:If you select Inserts Post Compressor (that is, if you do NOT select "INSERT PRE COMPRESSOR), the Master Compressor comes BEFORE the insert. This is the opposite of what you said… ;)

I know this is confusing, and I've even suggested that Props add that handy routing display from the top of each of the channels to the Master Section so you can SEE what the actual routing order is.
:)
Oh ok, i always though that "post" was for "after" as sometimes i hear "post interview" in sport for example which means an interview after the game and so "pre" for before..

But doesn't change the fact that i still can't hear any difference between "post" or "pre", is that subtle ?

Also with having the bus compressor set on "pre" do our limiter which sit between the master out and audio interface is still coming after the bus compressor ?

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selig
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Post 11 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:By "track" I meant "song". You don't need to put a separate Gain on each track unless you change levels - measure once and adjust volume on device, shift-drag to the next track, measure and adjust volume on the device, repeat. You can even delete that Gain when you're done setting levels. But I always keep one just in front of Ozone.
Ok, actually i check my peaks on the big meter too but i set it to infinte to see where my peak is sitting.
selig wrote:If you select Inserts Post Compressor (that is, if you do NOT select "INSERT PRE COMPRESSOR), the Master Compressor comes BEFORE the insert. This is the opposite of what you said… ;)

I know this is confusing, and I've even suggested that Props add that handy routing display from the top of each of the channels to the Master Section so you can SEE what the actual routing order is.
:)
Oh ok, i always though that "post" was for "after" as sometimes i hear "post interview" in sport for example which means an interview after the game and so "pre" for before..

But doesn't change the fact that i still can't hear any difference between "post" or "pre", is that subtle ?

Also with having the bus compressor set on "pre" do our limiter which sit between the master out and audio interface is still coming after the bus compressor ?
Post IS after - but you confused the Insert with the Compressor. It's the INSERT that the button in the Master Section refers to, not the Compressor. SO if the Insert is Post Compressor, as you suggested, then the Compressor comes FIRST, make sense?

And yes, the difference is subtle unless you add other devices as I mentioned previously. If you add an EQ in the insert, and set it so it's doing something obvious, you WILL hear a difference (assuming the compressor is ALSO doing something obvious). Hopefully it's also obvious that the order will not matter if there's only one active device…
:)
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Post 11 Dec 2016

selig wrote:Post IS after - but you confused the Insert with the Compressor. It's the INSERT that the button in the Master Section refers to, not the Compressor. SO if the Insert is Post Compressor, as you suggested, then the Compressor comes FIRST, make sense?

! Ah...See..i indeed though it was refering the compressor.. :oops: Otherwise sure make sense now :thumbs_up:

So anyway i'll keep it set on "pre" because it's how it's supposed to be :D

So since we moved our master devices from the insert i guess they still coming after the compressor, right ?

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selig
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Post 11 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:Post IS after - but you confused the Insert with the Compressor. It's the INSERT that the button in the Master Section refers to, not the Compressor. SO if the Insert is Post Compressor, as you suggested, then the Compressor comes FIRST, make sense?

! Ah...See..i indeed though it was refering the compressor.. :oops: Otherwise sure make sense now :thumbs_up:

So anyway i'll keep it set on "pre" because it's how it's supposed to be :D

So since we moved our master devices from the insert i guess they still coming after the compressor, right ?
To be specific, it depends on where you moved them. ;) If they are patched between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface, then yes, they are after everything!
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

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Post 11 Dec 2016

selig wrote:To be specific, it depends on where you moved them. ;) If they are patched between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface, then yes, they are after everything!
:)
Nice :thumbs_up:

Also what are your though on mastering with a loudness/limiter after the bus compressor or before it ? Any particular preference ?

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selig
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Post 11 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:To be specific, it depends on where you moved them. ;) If they are patched between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface, then yes, they are after everything!
:)
Nice :thumbs_up:

Also what are your though on mastering with a loudness/limiter after the bus compressor or before it ? Any particular preference ?
Since a loudness limiter is designed to get the levels to a very specific point, it must be last or you defeat it's purpose in my experience.
:)
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Post 11 Dec 2016

selig wrote:Since a loudness limiter is designed to get the levels to a very specific point, it must be last or you defeat it's purpose in my experience.
:)
Good point, that was my initial though too.

selig wrote:Another reason for patching the Maximizer AFTER the Master Outputs (and therefore after the Master Fader) is because I use Ozone and it's built in dither, and once you add dither you shouldn't do ANYTHING to the signal
But dither isn't anyway usually applied just once when you export your file post mastering ? So having the dither after or before the master output shouldn't be a concern no ?

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selig
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Post 11 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:Since a loudness limiter is designed to get the levels to a very specific point, it must be last or you defeat it's purpose in my experience.
:)
Good point, that was my initial though too.

selig wrote:Another reason for patching the Maximizer AFTER the Master Outputs (and therefore after the Master Fader) is because I use Ozone and it's built in dither, and once you add dither you shouldn't do ANYTHING to the signal
But dither isn't anyway usually applied just once when you export your file post mastering ? So having the dither after or before the master output shouldn't be a concern no ?
Dither should ALWAYS be applied only once. The only other rule is that no changes can be made to the level after adding dither. So as long as you don't break either of these rules, dither works as intended.
:)
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Post 11 Dec 2016

selig wrote:Dither should ALWAYS be applied only once. The only other rule is that no changes can be made to the level after adding dither. So as long as you don't break either of these rules, dither works as intended.
:)
Noted, but the reason i ask is because the way you said that it was "another reason" why you patch the maximizer/dither after the master output that make me tilt. Do that reason is because you use fade out to your track or it's because something else ?

Also when you say dither should always be applied once then i guess it's only when exporting after the mastering has been done and never applied if exporting post tracking or mixing, correct ?

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