A way to randomize things?

[supersmarter]

Guys, is there any way we could, for example, take any Reason device (Redrum, for example)

And then somehow store values of a patch (knob positions), - let's call that bank A then move to another patch, store into bank B, and then kinda morph between the two?

Or maybe this: Take all Pitch and all sends on Redrum, and then somehow randomize their values based on percentage?

I actually did this by programming my own Lemur script and then sending random CC data to Redrum over virtual MIDI.

But at this point, I am struggling to realize if this is possible to do inside Reason itself. Maybe there's some RE for that? I am not that smart or a Seasoned Reason user. Even though my username is "supersmarter," I think I am actually dumb.

I excel at eating pizzas though lol:

[Pepin]

There's not a general method for morphing between separate patch files.

Maybe it's obvious, but Polytone in Reason 13 is designed around a morphing feature like you describe.

For parameters with CV inputs you can also use something like Morpher to blend between different "snapshots":
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... v-utility/

As far as randomization goes, Algoritm has a feature like you're describing (randomizing groups of parameters by percentage).

[Mataya]

I use Morpher or LaunchEon for this. LaunchEon is actually more powerful and more expensive, but a great tool for that.

tx
M

[bitley]

You could assign Redrum to NNXTs and thus have them randomize samples, or multiple copies of same samples with individual settings.

In this track I have two main drum tracks and a percussion track. The NNXT percussion track randomizes completely between several hundred percussion and effect sounds like an occasional crow and what not:

[bitley]

You could assign Redrum to NNXTs and thus have them randomize samples, or multiple copies of same samples with individual settings.

In this track I have two main drum tracks and a percussion track. The NNXT percussion track randomizes completely between several hundred percussion and effect sounds like an occasional crow and what not:

[supersmarter]

I use Morpher or LaunchEon for this. LaunchEon is actually more powerful and more expensive, but a great tool for that.

tx
M

I don't consider LaunchEon too expensive if it can give me what I need. However...I don't understand this, and let me ask you right in the beginning to be patient with me because these devices are way over my head.

Here is why I am confused (not smarter even after watching a video).

The way I understand these two devices work is they store CV Values, and then they morph between values. But those Values are fed to the device, then hence they can control the device to a degree. However, what I don't get is this. Take Redrum, for example. Redrum only had Pitch CV on the back. Does this mean I could only "connect" and randomize Pitches properly? No? Yes? What about Levels, Decay, Tone, Perhaps S1 and S2, Pan.

I understand I could add Redrum into Combinator, and then inside Combinator, I could have 4 additional CV parameters which can be mapped to ANY Redrum control, but this means 8 from Redrum (CV Pitch) and 4 from Combinator CV In = 4 parameters of my choice being mapped within Combinator. But that's simply not enough, or I am not understanding the concept of these devices at all. Which one is it?

How could I take, say, Redrum and, just for the sake of the example, map all parameters on it to LaunchEon and then fine-tune what to randomize and how much to randomize within LaunchEon? Is that possible? How if Combinator allows me only 4 CV In.

In my simpleton head I am seeking for a device that can sense a parameter of a device. For example, in Ableton (assuming you use Ableton devices, not 3rd party VST), you can have a free Max4Live device that can "see" all parameters of the device behind it. Then you choose some values (such as Master LEvel) to be ignored while for the rest, you can set a randomization percentage. Example: https://maxforlive.com/library/device/1 ... randomizer

I understand this is an entirely different DAW, and that in Reason, we have to use CV. I am just trying to describe my point because I am bad at English. I don't see a problem with doing it differently, like purchasing LaunchEon and then making my own template, reconfiguring and connecting cables, etc., but before I do something silly or stupid, I want more experienced people to explain to me if it is even possible to do what I intend to do.

[supersmarter]

You could assign Redrum to NNXTs and thus have them randomize samples, or multiple copies of same samples with individual settings.

In this track I have two main drum tracks and a percussion track. The NNXT percussion track randomizes completely between several hundred percussion and effect sounds like an occasional crow and what not:

Could you please elaborate a bit? I think what you said is not what I am asking for, but instead, it is a different approach to something that might interest me in the future. I realize now you are a Refill and sound designer, so I guess these things seem trivial for you to imagine, but trust me, for me, they are not. hence, when you find some time (not hurry), please explain a bit if possible.

The way I understood you is that you are loading, say 300 samples in NN-XT, then you play, say 10 of them (drum kit), but somehow there's a way to randomly pick samples with a control switch from the pool of 300 samples loaded in NN-XT. is that it?

Thanks for your time, and btw nice track. I like the sound of it.

[Mataya]

I understand I could add Redrum into Combinator, and then inside Combinator, I could have 4 additional CV parameters which can be mapped to ANY Redrum control, but this means 8 from Redrum (CV Pitch) and 4 from Combinator CV In = 4 parameters of my choice being mapped within Combinator. But that's simply not enough, or I am not understanding the concept of these devices at all. Which one is it?


You can expands the cv's with this inside a comnbinator
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... generator/

and control more parameteres with it.

tx
M

[supersmarter]

You can expands the cv's with this inside a comnbinator
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... generator/

and control more parameteres with it.

tx
M

Thanks man. I learned something today. I didn't know this was possible (expanding the number of CV inside combinator). Though I don't understand how exactly to utilize this. I added it to the Combinator, yet I don't see it in the Source list where I can see only the default ones from Combinator itself (screenshot)

2025-03-27 10_06_37-Document 1 (Rack)_.jpg (246.9 KiB) Viewed 844 times

[Arpeg]

From there just flip the rack with Editor open and connect CV1 on the Combinator (Also, switch polarity from Bi-Polar to UniPolar) to any of the four connections in CV1 Out on the CV8X4. Flip the rack around to the front and check the motion.. Should be good to go. I tend to use this in the combi for the extra control as well but I bring it out of the combi, still connected, just for visual reference

easy

[Pepin]

I understand I could add Redrum into Combinator, and then inside Combinator, I could have 4 additional CV parameters which can be mapped to ANY Redrum control, but this means 8 from Redrum (CV Pitch) and 4 from Combinator CV In = 4 parameters of my choice being mapped within Combinator. But that's simply not enough, or I am not understanding the concept of these devices at all. Which one is it?

The 4 CV Ins at the top of the Combinator are for controlling the Combinator knobs with CV.

ControlsIns.png (20.84 KiB) Viewed 797 times

The 8 CV Ins below them--if you expand the "Editor"--can be used as additional sources within the Combinator programmer.

SourceIns.png (117.42 KiB) Viewed 797 times

Together, those 12 sources are your main options for controlling non-exposed parameters via CV. You can technically push it a bit further using the Pitch Bend and Mod Wheel CV ins as well, if those aren't already controlling other parameters on the relevant devices.

[supersmarter]

Guys, I am probably stupid, and there's a language barrier and my inability to explain. 

I just tried Morpher, and this is of no use. Yes I can connect Morpher CV out to Redrum CV Pitch In and yes I can press Random in Morpher and knobs on the morpher will jump randomly and it will affect pitch in the Redrum (randomly). 

But and HOWEVER, this is not the correct approach. Because controls on the Redrum itself stays as they are. They don't move at all. Knobs on Morpher move but knobs on Redrum does not. Meaning even if I have lucky random shot and find something I love, I can NOT save that Redrum patch as a kit because knobs on the Redrum don't relate to changes.
This is why I tried the next approach. I put Redrum in Combinator. 

I can add then some CV generator. I have some, but for this example, I added Matrix. The patch is included in my post. Default Reason samples. test.zip is attached to this response.

I can press play, and then I can select any of the Matrix and hit CTRL+R and it will send random CV value to a combinator Source CV IN, and because all 8 of the Source CV in are mapped inside the combinator editor to Drum pitches, they all get random pitches. 

These random pitches are also reflected at the Redrum. And I can save Redrum kit and knobs (Drum pitch on Redrum) are going to be saved with Redrum patch and I can recall it later or move kit to another project.

The problem I have with this approach is that because I run out of Combinators Source CV ins (all 8 of them) I can not send random signals to any other parameter in Redrum. This is where my brain is getting fu*** **. 

How can I get past these 8 random Sources so that inside the Combinator editor and sources, I could also add, say, Redrum drum levels, drum pan, and so on? 

Everyone is saying it's possible, but I don't see how. I tried to find on my own, and I found this thread, thinking I could finally learn from it. viewtopic.php?f=69&t=7527538 Even mister Mataya posted there.

But this is exactly not the way you could make any use. Take Redrum, for example. Load that combinator from that thread and do this. 

Put Redrum inside. And now what? You are being left with 8 outputs of this device. You can only connect cables to 8 Redrum Pitch CV in, and that's it. Because Redrum doesn't have any other CV in. You can click the Random button on that Coimbinator device, and it will indeed randomize Redrum pitches, but they are not reflected on the Redrum interface, thus, you can not save kits.

Moreover, how would you randomize any other parameter because Redrum has only CV for pitches? You can't!

Thus, you need to enter the Combinator CV Source from 1 to 8. And send some random values to it via Matrix and then map those through Combinator editor. But that approach has only 8 inputs; therefore, I am again inside Combinator stuck with only 8 inputs, mapping meaning only 8 controls to randomize, actually. 

Have I finally made any sense out of what I am trying to accomplish? I would want to say - ok, load several combinators and expand 8 to whatever you need, but how would that work because Redrum can be only inside one.

test.zip

just a test R13

(27.77 KiB) Downloaded 1 time

[Pepin]

How can I get past these 8 random Sources so that inside the Combinator editor and sources, I could also add, say, Redrum drum levels, drum pan, and so on? 

You simply can't. You're correct about the limitations when modulating parameters that aren't exposed via CV inputs.

[supersmarter]

You simply can't. You're correct about the limitations when modulating parameters that aren't exposed via CV inputs.

Ok then alleluja! I was so frustrated, thinking I was doing something wrong. I was hoping I was wrong.

I don't understand what problem the Launcheon device solves. How can it morph any patch on Redrum or anything, really? Allow me to focus on Redrum. How could it morph Redrum values other than CV Pitch in because that's the only thing Redrum has on the backside? I mean, there is no other control revealed on the backside such as Pan, Level, Decay.

"LaunchEon is a master control for all your Pattern devices, a morphing control to give insane new levels of sound shaping control, or both, either jointly or separately.

Pattern control

Designed to work with the Combinator or multiple Combinators, LaunchEon can control up to 8 modern Player pattern sequencers, and can also switch modes to control classic devices like Redrum and Matrix. This allows up to 64 different pattern combinations which can be painstakingly crafted or just randomised.

The change is delayed by a pre-defined transport synced increment, so they all change at the same time, and the right time.

Unparalleled Morphing Power - Anywhere!

The other half of LaunchEon’s power comes from its morphing capability, which is, as far as we are aware, the most powerful in any plugin format or DAW, anywhere on Earth (as usual we challenge you to tell us otherwise )! Our original plan was to recreate the capabilities of a classic but now defunct VST platform, but this was surpassed by a long way, using CV and the Combinator to create a perfectly “Reason flavoured” version of it.

We have two main modes, the classic Full Morph which gives morphing control over 32 ports with either 4, 16, or 64 scenes; we also have a magnificent new technology called Scene Only, which morphs directly from scene to scene without being influenced by any traversed scene."

?????

[bitley]

I think the easiest way to look at Reason is by stop thinking "it can not..." and reversing this to end up with the truth.

Sorry for the double post above too.

[Pepin]

Ok then alleluja! I was so frustrated, thinking I was doing something wrong. I was hoping I was wrong.

I don't understand what problem the Launcheon device solves. How can it morph any patch on Redrum or anything, really? Allow me to focus on Redrum. How could it morph Redrum values other than CV Pitch in because that's the only thing Redrum has on the backside? I mean, there is no other control revealed on the backside such as Pan, Level, Decay.

If your specific goal is to morph between completely arbitrary Redrum patches, these devices won't help you. That doesn't mean they're not useful for other things, as there's quite a lot of functionality exposed via CV across Reason's devices. These devices offer a level of performance control and configuration that can't always achieved using the Combinator. But ultimately they're still modulation devices that have to function within the constraints of Reason's CV system.

It's perhaps better to think of them morphing between "mod matrix presets" rather than arbitrary patches. If you've used Alchemy in Logic, these devices were probably inspired by its performance controls.

[supersmarter]

No, my talking about morphing between patches isn't the way of trying to express what I want. I was interested in the randomization of devices.

Ok, it would be cool if they add some sort of Random Seed in the combinator itself, and that way, we could for example, random ANY device that has any parameter exposable to combinator mapping. Something like Ableton Live Macro snapshot can be randomized at will, and you can even save and recall random snapshots.

I think this would end up any need to random anything. Or they could end up developing some sort of RE that can "sense" parameters exposed like the Combinator can, and they could even add two or buffers where you could save your 2 or 4 patches and morph between them (Reaper has this).

Alternatively, I can load Reason devices in Reaper and randomize or morph patches there. So not a problem for me, but certainly it would be cool.

Imagine having "Morpheus" RE in Reason and morphing between Bell sound in Objekt and Bass sound, somewhere between the half I hear alien siren Hehe

Thank you everyone who helped me understand this.

[supersmarter]

Here is random on another level - the interface might be weird, but look at the description

https://dillonbastan.com/store/maxforli ... election-p


Genetic algorithm that treats parameter value presets as a genotypes or 'DNA'. New ‘child’ presets are created by mixing 2 parents’ parameter values to create new generations of presets (all generations forming a 'Family Tree' of presets). Some of the functions included in this system:
Mutation amount and two mutation modes
Ability to limit the number of generations copulating for a new generation
Ability to start a new tree of presets from those of a previoius tree
Two modes for adding 'seed' presets: (1) current values of the device with optional random spreading (this way you can also load in adv presets and add them as seeds to the tree). (2) Randomized seeds
Functions for remixing parent presets DNA to create a new child and for saving the current parameter values into any child's DNA
Rating system to add bias to certain genetics when creating a new generation
Two page UI for navigating the various generations and children of presets
A section where you can morph up to 8 presets with two XY quadrants and a blend slider between them

[Pepin]

I definitely agree that Reason could use some global parameter/patch randomization features. It's really something that needs to be built into the DAW rather than individual devices.

It might be worth noting that Synapse Obsession VST has a Genetics feature for combining presets and can export to the RE version (not as extensive as the feature you're describing).
Algoritm and Nostromo both have parameter / patch randomization features as well.
There are probably some others I'm not aware of, but yes -- global randomization features would be welcome.

There actually is a random generator already built into the Combinator (the "Random Key" source), but you're not going to be able to use it for generating an entire patch. I posted about it a while ago in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=664393#p664393

[supersmarter]

I definitely agree that Reason could use some global parameter/patch randomization features. It's really something that needs to be built into the DAW rather than individual devices.

It might be worth noting that Synapse Obsession VST has a Genetics feature for combining presets and can export to the RE version (not as extensive as the feature you're describing).
Algoritm and Nostromo both have parameter / patch randomization features as well.
There are probably some others I'm not aware of, but yes -- global randomization features would be welcome.

There actually is a random generator already built into the Combinator (the "Random Key" source), but you're not going to be able to use it for generating an entire patch. I posted about it a while ago in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=664393#p664393

Thanks.

Do you know is there a way for me to "obtain" the values of the device I am randomizing? Say, for example, I use Morpher or any kind of combination that produces a random CV. As I said, I can use its CV outputs and connect them to Redrum Pitch CV inputs on the backside. I can randomize CV values in Morpher, and they will affect Redrum pitches.

But pitches on the Redrum front interfaces aren't actually moved. The changes are not reflected on the Redrum interface, and I can't save the Redrum kit. Would there be a way to get around that?

[Hadoestabut]

I think you could try with Players like Scales & Chords or Note Echo to randomize indirectly.

[bitley]

I can make a few patches to knock your socks and fortunately I already did, welcome checking out my refills. There are free demos available. Having said that I still get a bit (ley) tempted to create a kit aligned to what you ask for here.

[Pepin]

But pitches on the Redrum front interfaces aren't actually moved. The changes are not reflected on the Redrum interface, and I can't save the Redrum kit. Would there be a way to get around that?

As long as you're using CV, there's no way around that.
At least when REs are coded, CV inputs are not tied directly to front panel controls. Reason doesn't really have enough information to "commit" the value like you describe.

[supersmarter]

I can make a few patches to knock your socks and fortunately I already did, welcome checking out my refills. There are free demos available. Having said that I still get a bit (ley) tempted to create a kit aligned to what you ask for here.

Please recommend some refills in the context of this thread. I'll check the demos on your website and eventually purchase.