Need Help Making A Filter!

[mguh22]

Hi all,

Back in the day when I used Cubase, I had a plugin called Sonalksis TBK1. It was a simple Filter knob, but it swept all the way from no sound through to the full sound either as a high pass down, or low pass up. Even when just using a 12db curve.

Here's a video of it being used:

I want to recreate this using just native Reason devices. My best try at the moment has been routing audio through a Thor and then using Filter 3 to sweep, but even at the most filtered LP12 there is still some low rumbling, and with the HP12 there is still some high bits getting through. Obviously the TBK1 is doing something else to filter the sound so an LP12 and HP12 can be faded in from nothing.

Because the Sonalksis TBK1 used to make no sound when the knob was turned all the way, it made for a nicer alternative to an automated volume fader for bringing parts in gently; instead introducing them with a filter envelope.

Can some Combinator genius help me replicate the TBK filter with a single knob that goes from no sound, to the full sound via a gentle sweep with no resonance?

Many thanks!

[selig]

Besides the ECF-42, which covers a wide range, try these settings in Thor:

[Loque]

I am curious you lost your VST when it was so nice and tbh, the sound is nice. A 12dB filter is not the same, even if it is labeled equally. For an exact recreation you need a curve, how it looks and more infos on how it changes through the frequencies. Finally it may be impossible to exactly reproduce it.

From what i saw and heard, it has a quite bright not so peaky resonance, i may hear some saturation, i can see and hear, that is doing more outside of the center frequency, like cutting the lows a bit and removing the highs on LPF.

There are several filters available in the PH shop you may try, i recommend F-16, PMS and Synapse Analog Filter (very nice, especially when overdriven). If you dont want to try or buy them, there are plenty of free VST available and you can also look for some good EQs like GQ-7, which has also nice filters.

You can also check out Malstroems filter or use Thors different filter types and additional some shaping, to see if it fits. Pulverizer has also a filter and can put some dirt on your sound too.

[mguh22]

I'm still on Reason 8 so don't have VSTs, hence I need a native Reason solution and didn't really want to have to buy an RE for my fix...

I've already tried Thor Filter 3 and Pulverizer but neither of these filters closes fully in either direction to stop any sound coming through. From what I gather that is actually normal behaviour for a filter vs the way Sonalksis TBK works.

I think Sonalksis did something clever with TBK where the sound volume is fully attenuated at the highest FX level and as the filter is opened so the volume is increased.
It dynamically filters dependent on level with a tighter curve at the limits to stop the sound, whereas the filter in Thor is just the same curve being swept through the audio, thus it doesn't stop the sound when fully closed.

It looks like this will do what I want in RE form: https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/filter/

I can probably emulate a similar effect to TBK by automating both volume and the filter opening with the same knob, just with different curves. Is such a thing possible within a CMB, or can curves not be set within the limitations of a Combinator Rotary?

[Loque]

I'm still on Reason 8 so don't have VSTs, hence I need a native Reason solution and didn't really want to have to buy an RE for my fix...

I've already tried Thor Filter 3 and Pulverizer but neither of these filters closes fully in either direction to stop any sound coming through. From what I gather that is actually normal behaviour for a filter vs the way Sonalksis TBK works.

I think Sonalksis did something clever with TBK where the sound volume is fully attenuated at the highest FX level and as the filter is opened so the volume is increased.
It dynamically filters dependent on level with a tighter curve at the limits to stop the sound, whereas the filter in Thor is just the same curve being swept through the audio, thus it doesn't stop the sound when fully closed.

It looks like this will do what I want in RE form: https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/filter/

I can probably emulate a similar effect to TBK by automating both volume and the filter opening with the same knob, just with different curves. Is such a thing possible within a CMB, or can curves not be set within the limitations of a Combinator Rotary?

The D-Filter has a very high db slope, but not a nice sound imo (no additional color), it may just cut everything. The VST you mentioned has as a said a special peak for the Q and maybe additional saturation, maybe more.

You can use several filters in a row within a Combinator, assign a rotary to each cutoff and have a slightly different value margin. In this case, you will have a filter that cuts again the out-cumming signal. I use similar setups to create some special fx in some cases, but more to have a resonance past the cutoff. You may also note, that you can overdrive the filter in Thor.

If you want full flexibility, no color, i recommend GQ-7. For more color PMS and Synapse, F-16 is more clean and has a nice overdrive. If you have any synth RE, you may check, if you can access the filters.

To make a guess, PMS is what yo are looking for.

[O1B]

No RE will do the same, unfortunately. But, mimicking what you want at the time with a combi can be cool - IF, you can still run the CF for ideas.
So..... Get OFF R8, git on R9. Then you got WOW2, Volcano2, etc, etc, etc,

If you do use an, RE, D-Filter is a Great choice - because of that DUAL knob, and it's GUI:
You can instantly FLIP MODE, change slopes, see where the Freqs and REZs are, and control GAIN.

I'm still on Reason 8 so don't have VSTs,...
I've already tried Thor Filter 3 and Pulverizer but neither of these filters closes fully in either direction... the way Sonalksis TBK works.
I think Sonalksis did something clever with TBK where the sound volume is fully attenuated at the highest FX level and as the filter is opened so the volume is increased.

Not so fast, Loque. Give it a try, again. But - unless you want Hip Hop sounds from 1981 -
DO NOT Parallel Process w/D-Filter w/o DMG-01 compensation. (Big up to Normen... Hope he's good out there) D-Filter's bad rap came from .... newbie mistakes.
IMO, D-Filter crushes PMS-20 for a low weight, and the variable slopes are are effective.
But, PMS-20 has really nice presence ( the low registers is where i ran the test)
- College 130-1 Drums
D-Filter LF to 35hz... low rez at .89 Slope @48dB - tight... 24dB DuMMM
12dB... oh, yes.. nice vibration. [NOT POSSIBLE WITH THE PMS-20]

Try PMS-20 (Model B - back) HPass at 1.6, Peak at 8.7... serious Low BOOST but no ring "tail".
And, when it does ring, it is quite HARSH - compared to other Resonators.

TRY Both together. Works for me.
(although, I usually stay away from digital filters until the track's are in)

If you do try it, let me know what you think.

The D-Filter has a very high db slope, but not a nice sound imo (no additional color), it may just cut everything. The VST you mentioned has as a said a special peak for the Q and maybe additional saturation, maybe more.

To make a guess, PMS is what yo are looking for.

[Loque]

No RE will do the same, unfortunately. But, mimicking what you want at the time with a combi can be cool - IF, you can still run the CF for ideas.
So..... Get OFF R8, git on R9. Then you got WOW2, Volcano2, etc, etc, etc,

If you do use an, RE, D-Filter is a Great choice - because of that DUAL knob, and it's GUI:
You can instantly FLIP MODE, change slopes, see where the Freqs and REZs are, and control GAIN.

I'm still on Reason 8 so don't have VSTs,...
I've already tried Thor Filter 3 and Pulverizer but neither of these filters closes fully in either direction... the way Sonalksis TBK works.
I think Sonalksis did something clever with TBK where the sound volume is fully attenuated at the highest FX level and as the filter is opened so the volume is increased.

Not so fast, Loque. Give it a try, again. But - unless you want Hip Hop sounds from 1981 -
DO NOT Parallel Process w/D-Filter w/o DMG-01 compensation. (Big up to Normen... Hope he's good out there) D-Filter's bad rap came from .... newbie mistakes.
IMO, D-Filter crushes PMS-20 for a low weight, and the variable slopes are are effective.
But, PMS-20 has really nice presence ( the low registers is where i ran the test)
- College 130-1 Drums
D-Filter LF to 35hz... low rez at .89 Slope @48dB - tight... 24dB DuMMM
12dB... oh, yes.. nice vibration. [NOT POSSIBLE WITH THE PMS-20]

Try PMS-20 (Model B - back) HPass at 1.6, Peak at 8.7... serious Low BOOST but no ring "tail".
And, when it does ring, it is quite HARSH - compared to other Resonators.

TRY Both together. Works for me.
(although, I usually stay away from digital filters until the track's are in)

If you do try it, let me know what you think.

The D-Filter has a very high db slope, but not a nice sound imo (no additional color), it may just cut everything. The VST you mentioned has as a said a special peak for the Q and maybe additional saturation, maybe more.

To make a guess, PMS is what yo are looking for.

Well, maybe i give it a few shots again. As i said, i sometimes combine filters too, to get a completeely different sound. Last time i did this was a LPF with PMS and a overdriven Synapse with LPF and resonance. Sound has a very unique character and it filled perfectly the low end i was looking for and this was impossible to re-create with different or solo-ed filters. I gonna check D-Filter again, may ears may have changed since i a tried it the last time. And ofc, D-Filter is good if you want to cut everything, but i often just look for a 6dB filter too. For the band-splitting i most get GQ-7, because i can also see directly what is going on and "Q" both edges or give it another taste with more tweaking. Man, thankfully i have a bunch of toys to get what i want

[O1B]

You're routine is exactly what i get up to - so i hear you loud and clear.

AND, you must be a lyricist (maybe, it's just me):

i sometimes - combine - filters
to-get-a completeely-different sound
[Beat Drop ]
[Gangsta Biggie Hook]
Last-time i did-this
was a-LPF
with-PMS
and - a - overdriven Synapse
with LPF and resonance
[Bring the Breat Back]
very unique character
and it filled perfectly the low
this was impossible to re-create
with different or solo-ed

gonna check D-Filter again
may ears may have changed
D-Filter is good if you want to cut
- but

i often just look for a 6dB filter too
For the band-splitting i most get GQ
-7, because i can also see directly
what is going on and "Q"

give it another taste with more tweaking. Man
thank - fully
i have a bunch of toys
to get what i want
HAPPY!!

I usually get inspiration from things like hippo sounds. But, this is much better.
Easy, Loque.

Well, maybe i give it a few shots again. As i said, i sometimes combine filters too, to get a completeely different sound. Last time i did this was a LPF with PMS and a overdriven Synapse with LPF and resonance. Sound has a very unique character and it filled perfectly the low end i was looking for and this was impossible to re-create with different or solo-ed filters. I gonna check D-Filter again, may ears may have changed since i a tried it the last time. And ofc, D-Filter is good if you want to cut everything, but i often just look for a 6dB filter too. For the band-splitting i most get GQ-7, because i can also see directly what is going on and "Q" both edges or give it another taste with more tweaking. Man, thankfully i have a bunch of toys to get what i want

[Loque]

You're routine is exactly what i get up to - so i hear you loud and clear.

AND, you must be a lyricist (maybe, it's just me):

i sometimes - combine - filters
to-get-a completeely-different sound
[Beat Drop ]
[Gangsta Biggie Hook]
Last-time i did-this
was a-LPF
with-PMS
and - a - overdriven Synapse
with LPF and resonance
[Bring the Breat Back]
very unique character
and it filled perfectly the low
this was impossible to re-create
with different or solo-ed

gonna check D-Filter again
may ears may have changed
D-Filter is good if you want to cut
- but

i often just look for a 6dB filter too
For the band-splitting i most get GQ
-7, because i can also see directly
what is going on and "Q"

give it another taste with more tweaking. Man
thank - fully
i have a bunch of toys
to get what i want
HAPPY!!

I usually get inspiration from things like hippo sounds. But, this is much better.
Easy, Loque.

Well, maybe i give it a few shots again. As i said, i sometimes combine filters too, to get a completeely different sound. Last time i did this was a LPF with PMS and a overdriven Synapse with LPF and resonance. Sound has a very unique character and it filled perfectly the low end i was looking for and this was impossible to re-create with different or solo-ed filters. I gonna check D-Filter again, may ears may have changed since i a tried it the last time. And ofc, D-Filter is good if you want to cut everything, but i often just look for a 6dB filter too. For the band-splitting i most get GQ-7, because i can also see directly what is going on and "Q" both edges or give it another taste with more tweaking. Man, thankfully i have a bunch of toys to get what i want

You gotta pay me!

[selig]

I'm still on Reason 8 so don't have VSTs, hence I need a native Reason solution and didn't really want to have to buy an RE for my fix...

I've already tried Thor Filter 3 and Pulverizer but neither of these filters closes fully in either direction to stop any sound coming through. From what I gather that is actually normal behaviour for a filter vs the way Sonalksis TBK works.

I think Sonalksis did something clever with TBK where the sound volume is fully attenuated at the highest FX level and as the filter is opened so the volume is increased.
It dynamically filters dependent on level with a tighter curve at the limits to stop the sound, whereas the filter in Thor is just the same curve being swept through the audio, thus it doesn't stop the sound when fully closed.

It looks like this will do what I want in RE form: https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/filter/

I can probably emulate a similar effect to TBK by automating both volume and the filter opening with the same knob, just with different curves. Is such a thing possible within a CMB, or can curves not be set within the limitations of a Combinator Rotary?

It's simply a matter of going low enough, not necessarily anything to do with any other 'magic' to stop the sound.

In Thor, the filters don't go low enough to do what you want, so I posted a solution to this for you!

Hope you were able to go ve it a try.



Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk

[aeox]

I'm still on Reason 8 so don't have VSTs, hence I need a native Reason solution and didn't really want to have to buy an RE for my fix...

I've already tried Thor Filter 3 and Pulverizer but neither of these filters closes fully in either direction to stop any sound coming through. From what I gather that is actually normal behaviour for a filter vs the way Sonalksis TBK works.

I think Sonalksis did something clever with TBK where the sound volume is fully attenuated at the highest FX level and as the filter is opened so the volume is increased.
It dynamically filters dependent on level with a tighter curve at the limits to stop the sound, whereas the filter in Thor is just the same curve being swept through the audio, thus it doesn't stop the sound when fully closed.

It looks like this will do what I want in RE form: https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/filter/

I can probably emulate a similar effect to TBK by automating both volume and the filter opening with the same knob, just with different curves. Is such a thing possible within a CMB, or can curves not be set within the limitations of a Combinator Rotary?

It's simply a matter of going low enough, not necessarily anything to do with any other 'magic' to stop the sound.

In Thor, the filters don't go low enough to do what you want, so I posted a solution to this for you!

Hope you were able to go ve it a try.



Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk

This is a good solution!

I just changed button1 amount to -75 so it doesn't close so fast.

[aeox]

Using Seligs Thor suggestion I made a CMB that might be similar to what you're looking for.

Filter.zip

(1.32 KiB) Downloaded 78 times

[mguh22]

Thanks so much everybody for all your help; I will try out Selig's Thor and aeox's CMB tonight and will report back my findings!

[mguh22]

Had a try with this, for the LPF it works amazing! Fully closed filter results in no sound coming through! (I wonder why Thor's native filter 3 controls don't sweep this far down and need hacking via the programmer?). Fading in with this starts with no sound through to a low rumble and then brings in more and more head of the sound as we go! Perfect!

However, the HPF doesn't do quite the same, there's still sound even when the filter is fully closed

Any ideas on how to build the same thing for HPF, where sounds can be faded in from nothing by introducing more and more body to the sound?

[selig]

Had a try with this, for the LPF it works amazing! Fully closed filter results in no sound coming through! (I wonder why Thor's native filter 3 controls don't sweep this far down and need hacking via the programmer?). Fading in with this starts with a low rumble and brings in more and more head of the sound as we go! Perfect!

However, the HPF doesn't do quite the same

Any ideas on how to build the same thing for HPF, where sounds can be faded in from nothing by introducing more and more body to the sound?

Thor's HP filter doesn't seem to allow being driven up any higher, neither does Pulveriser. There may be an RE that can do this, but I don't have enough knowledge to make a suggestion (maybe someone else knows of one?).

However, I DO have a solution, just not one I can talk about yet (sorry!) or one that's actually available.
And while it's not designed to do this specific thing as it's primary function, because I love building things that push the limits, it CAN do exactly as you want.
With a little help from a Combinator, you can even do the entire sweep with one knob, with full spectrum in the center position, high cut to the left and low cut to the right.
Stay tuned (and again, sorry for the 'tease', but I just tested it and it works as you want, so had to share.).

[aeox]

Had a try with this, for the LPF it works amazing! Fully closed filter results in no sound coming through! (I wonder why Thor's native filter 3 controls don't sweep this far down and need hacking via the programmer?). Fading in with this starts with a low rumble and brings in more and more head of the sound as we go! Perfect!

However, the HPF doesn't do quite the same

Any ideas on how to build the same thing for HPF, where sounds can be faded in from nothing by introducing more and more body to the sound?

Thor's HP filter doesn't seem to allow being driven up any higher, neither does Pulveriser. There may be an RE that can do this, but I don't have enough knowledge to make a suggestion (maybe someone else knows of one?).

However, I DO have a solution, just not one I can talk about yet (sorry!) or one that's actually available.
And while it's not designed to do this specific thing as it's primary function, because I love building things that push the limits, it CAN do exactly as you want.
With a little help from a Combinator, you can even do the entire sweep with one knob, with full spectrum in the center position, high cut to the left and low cut to the right.
Stay tuned (and again, sorry for the 'tease', but I just tested it and it works as you want, so had to share.).

You should do one with two knobs, much more flexibility/applications that way!

[selig]

Thor's HP filter doesn't seem to allow being driven up any higher, neither does Pulveriser. There may be an RE that can do this, but I don't have enough knowledge to make a suggestion (maybe someone else knows of one?).

However, I DO have a solution, just not one I can talk about yet (sorry!) or one that's actually available.
And while it's not designed to do this specific thing as it's primary function, because I love building things that push the limits, it CAN do exactly as you want.
With a little help from a Combinator, you can even do the entire sweep with one knob, with full spectrum in the center position, high cut to the left and low cut to the right.
Stay tuned (and again, sorry for the 'tease', but I just tested it and it works as you want, so had to share.).

You should do one with two knobs, much more flexibility/applications that way!

Just to be clear, that how it works on it's own, without using a Combinator. Should have mentioned there was a thread a while back where someone asked for a one-knob solution using Thor, so that's why I included that idea in my post.
But the part I was excited about was the ability to sweep far enough to go to silence.

[aeox]

You should do one with two knobs, much more flexibility/applications that way!

Just to be clear, that how it works on it's own, without using a Combinator. Should have mentioned there was a thread a while back where someone asked for a one-knob solution using Thor, so that's why I included that idea in my post.
But the part I was excited about was the ability to sweep far enough to go to silence.

Wheres it at?

[selig]

Just to be clear, that how it works on it's own, without using a Combinator. Should have mentioned there was a thread a while back where someone asked for a one-knob solution using Thor, so that's why I included that idea in my post.
But the part I was excited about was the ability to sweep far enough to go to silence.

Wheres it at?

"However, I DO have a solution, just not one I can talk about yet (sorry!) or one that's actually available."

It's in alpha testing at present, soon to be beta…

[aeox]

Wheres it at?

"However, I DO have a solution, just not one I can talk about yet (sorry!) or one that's actually available."

It's in alpha testing at present, soon to be beta…

Beta testing for a CMB?

Edit: or are you talking about a RE? I thought the OP was looking for a native/stock device solution.

[Loque]

"However, I DO have a solution, just not one I can talk about yet (sorry!) or one that's actually available."

It's in alpha testing at present, soon to be beta…

Beta testing for a CMB?

Edit: or are you talking about a RE? I thought the OP was looking for a native/stock device solution.

Sounds like Selig has something in its queue...

[selig]

"However, I DO have a solution, just not one I can talk about yet (sorry!) or one that's actually available."

It's in alpha testing at present, soon to be beta…

Beta testing for a CMB?

Edit: or are you talking about a RE? I thought the OP was looking for a native/stock device solution.

Sorry, thought I was clear about all that at the time I wrote it. I said there were no more native solutions I could think of, then suggested others may know of an RE solution, then mentioned something that worked but was not yet available (was obvious to me when I wrote it, but I see now I never clearly said it was an RE).

[aeox]

Beta testing for a CMB?

Edit: or are you talking about a RE? I thought the OP was looking for a native/stock device solution.

Sorry, thought I was clear about all that at the time I wrote it. I said there were no more native solutions I could think of, then suggested others may know of an RE solution, then mentioned something that worked but was not yet available (was obvious to me when I wrote it, but I see now I never clearly said it was an RE).

Ohh, okay I'm not confused anymore. Exciting times.

[Loque]

Beta testing for a CMB?

Edit: or are you talking about a RE? I thought the OP was looking for a native/stock device solution.

Sorry, thought I was clear about all that at the time I wrote it. I said there were no more native solutions I could think of, then suggested others may know of an RE solution, then mentioned something that worked but was not yet available (was obvious to me when I wrote it, but I see now I never clearly said it was an RE).

You make me cry

[Re8et]

Loque I credited you inside this vid, in the second part, regarding sample delay inside the mixer programmer!
I made a comparison for some filters that I use, if it can help the OP figure out its needs.
Probably the A-filter fits the bill better than other, but there are some modular way to get there, eventually i think..