VST3 only - the list of major plugins is growing

Discuss VST stuff here!
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tobypearce
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Post 22 Oct 2022

There are an increasing number of really significant plugins that are VST3 only, and it's therefore not possible to use them in Reason until they support it.

These include:

*All new Izotope plugins, including Neutron 4 and the latest Ozone.
*Kontakt! Not being able to use Kontakt in Reason is a big deal. (Thank goodness Kontakt 6 remains on the system alongside Kontakt 7.)

This isn't a bash at Reason Studios - I will always love Reason for its stability and ingenuity. I do hope, though, that VST3 support soon come.
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Propellerhands
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Post 22 Oct 2022

Funny profile picture.

Yes, I agree totally, also noticed a few VST3 plugins (like Novum) which do not have VST2 support. Probably because it was released pretty recently so developers saw no point in tryin to include VST2 knowing that it is dying breed.

But trust me. Reason Studios are working on VST3 support! Everyday and everynight.
"Shut the fuck up and use the software. It's great." - stillifegaijin on Reason

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joeyluck
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Post 22 Oct 2022

Yes, we have a thread on this, but stopped updating it because the number of plugins is so great and VST3 support is on the way :thumbup:

viewtopic.php?p=412215

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integerpoet
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Post 22 Oct 2022

I'm weirdly conflicted about this.

On one hand, I want to say I don't even want VST2 much less VST3 or AU. It's RE or bust.

On the other hand I kinda wanna try things like Naturaliser.

Jac459
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Location: Singapore

Post 22 Oct 2022

You forgot the RRP :-). It is vst3 only...

More seriously, I think that either you go for a full reason experience (no vst and only RE), and you get a nice integrated experience (and largely powerful enough).

Either you decide you need even more and you are better off with RRP inside a modern DAW...
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

EugeniusMaximus
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Post 23 Oct 2022

I totally agree and I don't understand PPH's reluctance to include VST3 plug-ins. I'm an R10 user and though it was released in 2017, the VST3 format was released in 2008! That's a 9-year difference and now that we're in the year 2022, PPH is 14 years behind and has a lot of catching up to do. There's no point in upgrading to R12 as it also doesn't support VST3.
tobypearce wrote:
22 Oct 2022
There are an increasing number of really significant plugins that are VST3 only, and it's therefore not possible to use them in Reason until they support it.

These include:

*All new Izotope plugins, including Neutron 4 and the latest Ozone.
*Kontakt! Not being able to use Kontakt in Reason is a big deal. (Thank goodness Kontakt 6 remains on the system alongside Kontakt 7.)

This isn't a bash at Reason Studios - I will always love Reason for its stability and ingenuity. I do hope, though, that VST3 support soon come.

EugeniusMaximus
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Joined: 17 Jun 2020
Location: Renton, WA

Post 23 Oct 2022

integerpoet wrote:
22 Oct 2022
I'm weirdly conflicted about this.

On one hand, I want to say I don't even want VST2 much less VST3 or AU. It's RE or bust.

On the other hand I kinda wanna try things like Naturaliser.
I highly recommend it, but it can be contagious :-)

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joeyluck
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Post 23 Oct 2022

EugeniusMaximus wrote:
23 Oct 2022
I totally agree and I don't understand PPH's reluctance to include VST3 plug-ins. I'm an R10 user and though it was released in 2017, the VST3 format was released in 2008! That's a 9-year difference and now that we're in the year 2022, PPH is 14 years behind and has a lot of catching up to do. There's no point in upgrading to R12 as it also doesn't support VST3.
For comparison ;)

Ableton Live
- Ableton Live 4 added VST support in 2004.
- VST3 was released in 2008.
- Ableton Live 10.1 added VST3 support in 2019.

That's 11 years after VST3 tech was released while being a DAW that had been hosting VSTs for 15 years at that point.

Reason
- Reason 9.5 added VST support in 2017.
- VST3 support slated to be added end of 2022.

That's 5 years after first adding VST support. I'd say that's not too bad in comparison.

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jam-s
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 23 Oct 2022

joeyluck wrote:
23 Oct 2022
For comparison ;)

Ableton Live
- Ableton Live 4 added VST support in 2004.
- VST3 was released in 2008.
- Ableton Live 10.1 added VST3 support in 2019.

That's 11 years after VST3 tech was released while being a DAW that had been hosting VSTs for 15 years at that point.

Reason
- Reason 9.5 added VST support in 2017.
- VST3 support slated to be added end of 2022.

That's 5 years after first adding VST support. I'd say that's not too bad in comparison.
If they'd skipped VST2 support altogether Reason could have been one of the earlier DAWs with VST3 support.

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integerpoet
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Location: East Bay, California

Post 23 Oct 2022

jam-s wrote:
23 Oct 2022
If they'd skipped VST2 support altogether Reason could have been one of the earlier DAWs with VST3 support.
That seems like it probably would have been a non-starter from a marketing perspective at the time.

But I do wonder how much effort it would have been to adopt VST3 in such a way as to avoid using any features not offered by VST2.

I haven't adopted either API before, so that might be a completely stupid idea. Is VST2 actually a proper subset of VST3?

Regardless, the Props were (and RS are) smart, so there was probably a good reason, but I can't help but wonder what it was.
Last edited by integerpoet on 23 Oct 2022, edited 1 time in total.

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joeyluck
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Post 23 Oct 2022

integerpoet wrote:
23 Oct 2022
jam-s wrote:
23 Oct 2022
If they'd skipped VST2 support altogether Reason could have been one of the earlier DAWs with VST3 support.
That seems like it probably would have been a non-starter from a marketing perspective at the time.

But I do wonder how much effort it would have been to adopt VST3 in such a way as to avoid using any features not offered by VST2.

I haven't adopted either API before, so that might be a completely stupid idea. Is VST2 actually a proper subset of VST3?

Regardless, RS are smart, so there was probably a good reason, but I can't help but wonder what it was.
And again, a good question is why it took many of these DAWs that have been VST DAWs so long to implement VST3, such as Live.

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integerpoet
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Post 23 Oct 2022

joeyluck wrote:
23 Oct 2022
And again, a good question is why it took many of these DAWs that have been VST DAWs so long to implement VST3, such as Live.
In that bigger picture, it wouldn't need to have been a technical challenge. It might merely have been a marketing-level chicken-and-egg problem. If the installed base of VST3 plug-ins isn't big, no DAW (other than Cubase) will care. And if no DAW cares, the installed base of VST3 plug-ins won't grow (quickly). Steinberg isn't the only one in this boat. This chicken-and-egg problem has also helped AUv2 remain popular so many years since the introduction of AUv3.

rsnsnds
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Joined: 26 Sep 2022

Post 24 Oct 2022

Some vst developers aren't too happy with some aspects of the vst3 specs and development features and maybe that's one of the causes for the delay in the adoption of the technology, including DAW developers

ltbrunt00
Posts: 514
Joined: 10 Jan 2017

Post 01 Nov 2022

Anyone have an idea about when VST3 will be coming to Reason? Over this past year I have purchased many plugins that now only run as VST3 only. Reason getting VST3 support which we all know is right around the corner will be like Christmas for some of us.

If they do add VST 3 support I hope it comes any time in mid November and mid to late December. I have a lot of vacation coming up on top of company required days off.
Reason, Nuendo, Studio One
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Steedus
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Location: Melbourne, AU

Post 01 Nov 2022

It's on the roadmap for "This year" so unless there are any delays we should have it by Christmas I would think.

DJMaytag
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Location: Madison, WI

Post 07 Nov 2022

Shit. Audiorealism ABL3 is going VST3 only. Looks like I’m at the end of the road with whatever the latest version is that still has a VST2 in the installer.

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joeyluck
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Post 07 Nov 2022

DJMaytag wrote:
07 Nov 2022
Shit. Audiorealism ABL3 is going VST3 only. Looks like I’m at the end of the road with whatever the latest version is that still has a VST2 in the installer.
Well at least we know we're getting VST3, but you don't use the RE?

DJMaytag
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Location: Madison, WI

Post 07 Nov 2022

joeyluck wrote:
07 Nov 2022
DJMaytag wrote:
07 Nov 2022
Shit. Audiorealism ABL3 is going VST3 only. Looks like I’m at the end of the road with whatever the latest version is that still has a VST2 in the installer.
Well at least we know we're getting VST3, but you don't use the RE?
The RE is a bit limited compared to the VST, and I’ve been beta testing ABL3 since they announced it.

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joeyluck
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Post 07 Nov 2022

DJMaytag wrote:
07 Nov 2022
joeyluck wrote:
07 Nov 2022


Well at least we know we're getting VST3, but you don't use the RE?
The RE is a bit limited compared to the VST, and I’ve been beta testing ABL3 since they announced it.
Gotcha. Yeah I have them both. They're pretty close. The VST has a few different things, such as shuffle, bass and treble boost, the additional foldback distortion mode, and the wave analyzer.

Of those, shuffle would be nice to have. The other features are pretty basic and can be done with external EQ and distortion. And then basslines from wavs can be transcribed with Reason's own audio to MIDI. I've tried that maybe once with the VST.

The RE actually had an update recently which updated the engine, added slide CV out, and added the slide and accent defect switches. I would actually argue that the RE is more capable given the CV connectivity. I think also the Slide and Accent defect switches are only on the RE (I'll have to check). The CV connectivity is one of the best features of the RE, and I can't do things like this with the VST: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=7526956

Aside from triggering drums, I very often send the Accent CV output into the Cutoff CV input (as I do with that patch above as well) for super squelchy lines...or I'll dial back the CV trim so it's more subtle. I can't do those things with the VST, so I favor the RE.

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tobypearce
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Post 19 Nov 2022

Propellerhands wrote:
22 Oct 2022
Funny profile picture.

Yes, I agree totally, also noticed a few VST3 plugins (like Novum) which do not have VST2 support. Probably because it was released pretty recently so developers saw no point in tryin to include VST2 knowing that it is dying breed.

But trust me. Reason Studios are working on VST3 support! Everyday and everynight.
I think they stopped giving out the VST2 license (or whatever) to developers a few years back, which means that new plugin developers can't release VST2 versions of their plugins. Before I realised this I bought Infinite from Toolroom https://toolroomacademy.com/shop/infinite. It didn't even occur to me to check, so I won't be able to even install it until Reason supports VST3.
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Propellerhands
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Post 21 Nov 2022

tobypearce wrote:
19 Nov 2022

I won't be able to even install it until Reason supports VST3.
You can try now, become VST3 BETA tester :D https://www.reasonstudios.com/beta-test/signup
"Shut the fuck up and use the software. It's great." - stillifegaijin on Reason

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