Widening Plugins

[reasonperson]

When using plugins like Waves S1 Stereo Enhancer or kiloHearts Stereo, are you supposed to put these plugins on mono tracks or stereo tracks for them to work best?

[BRIGGS]

When using plugins like Waves S1 Stereo Enhancer or kiloHearts Stereo, are you supposed to put these plugins on mono tracks or stereo tracks for them to work best?

Stereo tracks

[reasonperson]

Hi BRIGGS, recording vocals I do in mono, I would need to convert the vocals from mono to stereo and than apply the effects in a stereo track?

[BRIGGS]

Hi BRIGGS, recording vocals I do in mono, I would need to convert the vocals from mono to stereo and than apply the effects in a stereo track?

Or, you could leave them mono, then apply mono to stereo effects, then widen.

It really depends on the result you're looking for, and your workflow.

[PhillipOrdonez]

They can be used on any source.

My advice: Don't use that kind of effect unless you know what you're doing. Or your mixes will end up being weak and possibly not wide at all ‍♂️

[chaosroyale]

On mixes generally, most stereo enhancer effects are terrible and can hurt a mix. Except for Izotope's weirdly magical one (use it carefully though).

It sounds like what you want is space and dimension from a mono vocal source? There are ways to do that. (In general, keep it subtle, and check your mix on speakers, not only headphones, because stereo tricks can be very deceiving.)

The old analog way was call double-tracking and here is a free RE I made inspired by that technique.

viewtopic.php?t=7520870

You can also use subtle stereo chorus, delay, and reverb to make a vocal fill a stereo space. There's a bunch of paid combi's on my homepage that will do that too, plus a more advanced version of the "auto-triple-track".

https://chaosmusick.com/chaosfx/

When using plugins like Waves S1 Stereo Enhancer or kiloHearts Stereo, are you supposed to put these plugins on mono tracks or stereo tracks for them to work best?

[aeox]

I've never used Waves S1 Stereo Enhancer, but I know kiloHearts Stereo will only work on tracks which already have stereo width to them.

[EdGrip]

I think it's helpful to understand (cos I had a similar misunderstanding about synth oscillators) - you can't "widen" a mono source - you can only apply effects that work in stereo. That is, make a left and right copy of the same mono file and make one copy different from the other in some way (or ways).

While there are some common approaches to this for vocals, such as ADT, the world is your oyster and the only limit is your imagination. Delay, pitch, EQ, modulation, impulse responses... Anything you like. Make sure you check whatever you end up with in mono to make sure it still works well enough.

[selig]

On mixes generally, most stereo enhancer effects are terrible and can hurt a mix. Except for Izotope's weirdly magical one (use it carefully though).]

I have typically never liked what wideners do to the mix, but gotta agree isotopes is very usable without the typical side effects - in fact, it adds such a nice overall presence it often not only makes the mix wider, but sounds better too. Magical indeed…

[PhillipOrdonez]

On mixes generally, most stereo enhancer effects are terrible and can hurt a mix. Except for Izotope's weirdly magical one (use it carefully though).]

I have typically never liked what wideners do to the mix, but gotta agree isotopes is very usable without the typical side effects - in fact, it adds such a nice overall presence it often not only makes the mix wider, but sounds better too. Magical indeed…

Though I don't use it on the mix, I am aware that the mode 2 is the magic one

[selig]

I have typically never liked what wideners do to the mix, but gotta agree isotopes is very usable without the typical side effects - in fact, it adds such a nice overall presence it often not only makes the mix wider, but sounds better too. Magical indeed…

Though I don't use it on the mix, I am aware that the mode 2 is the magic one

I’m actually just using the basic widener in Ozone elements - you mean to say there is an even MORE magical mode?!?🧙‍♂️

[PhillipOrdonez]

Though I don't use it on the mix, I am aware that the mode 2 is the magic one

I’m actually just using the basic widener in Ozone elements - you mean to say there is an even MORE magical mode?!?🧙‍♂️

I don't know how things are on elements, but the free imager version contains the second mode which is the magic one:

https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/how-to ... -free.html

[selig]

I’m actually just using the basic widener in Ozone elements - you mean to say there is an even MORE magical mode?!?🧙‍♂️

I don't know how things are on elements, but the free imager version contains the second mode which is the magic one:

https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/how-to ... -free.html

Oh wait - sorry, I'm an idiot - Elements version DOES have the two modes, defaulting to the second so I've never tried the first - after hearing the second and being sensitive to all past "wideners" for some reason, I was blown away. None of the negative side affects, and a positive side affect of a sweet upper frequency "enhancement" (need to analyze it, probably just a slight boost).
Either way, it has made it into my template mastering combinator and is there to stay!

[PhillipOrdonez]

I don't know how things are on elements, but the free imager version contains the second mode which is the magic one:

https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/how-to ... -free.html

Oh wait - sorry, I'm an idiot - Elements version DOES have the two modes, defaulting to the second so I've never tried the first - after hearing the second and being sensitive to all past "wideners" for some reason, I was blown away. None of the negative side affects, and a positive side affect of a sweet upper frequency "enhancement" (need to analyze it, probably just a slight boost).
Either way, it has made it into my template mastering combinator and is there to stay!

Right?!!! It is magic!!!! I got the advanced version yet I still just load the little free one and use it on every mix. I don't really need to have multiband widening, especially when I don't use it on the 2bus!

[integerpoet]

I think it's helpful to understand (cos I had a similar misunderstanding about synth oscillators) - you can't "widen" a mono source - you can only apply effects that work in stereo. That is, make a left and right copy of the same mono file and make one copy different from the other in some way (or ways).

"Can't" might be too strong a word. Check out this little-known RE:
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... /restereo/
Obviously it can only be creating data rather than emphasizing what's already there, but truth is for accountants.

Also, the Ozone imager VST that everybody praises also has a stereo-izer which isn't enabled by default.

[KGB]

If it's not Matthew Lane Stereo Delta I'm not using it.

Literally use it on every mix to widen the tracks that need to be wider..I never use widening on a master..I'd rather do mid side eq on a master.

[WarStar]

The Izotope is awesome..!

One thing as far as mix goes is do some mid/side EQ or efx .. I'm a fan a short stereo delay for mono..

Actually, that does remind me of a question in regards to panning a mono with delay for stereo effect, I've taken a mono vocal and duplicated it, one right one left with some delay on one side but then when I sum it to a bus it goes back to mono... If I don't bus it it's fine.. I've racked my brain on this one but just can't figure it out lol and suggestions?

[WeLoveYouToo]

the soundtoys widener is really good as well, i'd say as good as the one in ozone

[WeLoveYouToo]

The Izotope is awesome..!

One thing as far as mix goes is do some mid/side EQ or efx .. I'm a fan a short stereo delay for mono..

Actually, that does remind me of a question in regards to panning a mono with delay for stereo effect, I've taken a mono vocal and duplicated it, one right one left with some delay on one side but then when I sum it to a bus it goes back to mono... If I don't bus it it's fine.. I've racked my brain on this one but just can't figure it out lol and suggestions?

it's a stereo bus? checked all the wiring on the rack to make sure there's 2 cables per effect? is the wide knob set to 0 in the channel strip?
try creating a new bus or audio channel and manually route it here, or use a spider to try and pinpoint where the problem is in your signal chain maybe.

maybe you have 2 mono tracks, and one is sending R info. if a channel is a stereo track, make sure use the L channel for both to output the mono signal maybe?

[WarStar]

The Izotope is awesome..!

One thing as far as mix goes is do some mid/side EQ or efx .. I'm a fan a short stereo delay for mono..

Actually, that does remind me of a question in regards to panning a mono with delay for stereo effect, I've taken a mono vocal and duplicated it, one right one left with some delay on one side but then when I sum it to a bus it goes back to mono... If I don't bus it it's fine.. I've racked my brain on this one but just can't figure it out lol and suggestions?

it's a stereo bus? checked all the wiring on the rack to make sure there's 2 cables per effect? is the wide knob set to 0 in the channel strip?
try creating a new bus or audio channel and manually route it here, or use a spider to try and pinpoint where the problem is in your signal chain maybe.

maybe you have 2 mono tracks, and one is sending R info. if a channel is a stereo track, make sure use the L channel for both to output the mono signal maybe?

Thanks for the suggestions.. !

I'm not at my computer but I do remember some attempted work arounds... I tried to flip the left to right inputs on the inserts but still same issue when bussed.. then used the quadelectra splitter to flip right/left and still same issue when bussed.. when using the delay I would also pan via the delay insert as well as panning the channel strip, still same problem when bussed ... interesting thing is when I would use a spider in the insert on just one channel, split it in two with one split going through a delay and then both the clean and delayed into a 6chn mixer and panned each to opposite sides there was no issue lol I'm definitely missing something here . Reason why I haven't been bussing these together anymore lol