How have the introductions of VSTs changed how you use Reason?

Discuss VST stuff here!
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avasopht
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Post 25 May 2021

I find myself often going for my VSTs first now - not even because of the sound, just the convenience.

Maybe this will change with the new browser, combinator v2 and (hopefully) patch loading speed improvements ...
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dvdrtldg
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Post 25 May 2021

You mean you find VSTs more convenient than REs?

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reusenoise
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Post 25 May 2021

dvdrtldg wrote:
25 May 2021
You mean you find VSTs more convenient than REs?
Think about Vital,a free vsti can blown almost any RE out of the water,don't to mention all FullBucket stuff

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avasopht
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Post 25 May 2021

dvdrtldg wrote:
25 May 2021
You mean you find VSTs more convenient than REs?
For instrument sound libraries, yes.

For synthesis, no (though I only have VST synths).
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joeyluck
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Post 25 May 2021

I find REs much more convenient.

RE interfaces are always accessible, capable of CV modulation (whereas VSTs are more CV to automation), and REs integrate with the browser much better.

So I typically buy REs first when possible and use REs where I can. I buy and use VSTs that don't exist as REs (or there isn't a good solution in RE format).

So the introduction of VST has definitely allowed me to increase the tools I can have. Aside from the VST format being a bit clunky and not integrating very well, it has still managed to improve my workflow by allowing me to use plugins that can do things that aren't offered in the RE format.

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QVprod
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Post 25 May 2021

Simple answer; I now use VSTs inside of Reason. :puf_smile:

Seriously though, I’d agree that loading something like Komplete Kontrol or Analog Lab can make searching for something much quicker rather than browsing folders of the FSB or REs. I’m looking forward to a browser along those lines should it be what it seems it will be.

Any sound I’m making from scratch though I still use the built in Reason stuff for though. Probably familiarity. I’m not as familiar with programming my VST synths. But my VST use is generally for organic instruments, keyboards, strings, drums...etc...

DaveyG
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Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 26 May 2021

I have a few synths as both RE and VST and I'll always choose the VST version if I'm working in Reason standalone. The UI is not constrained by the rack width and it is (usually) easier to see the controls. I'll almost always have the VST pinned on my second monitor. The rack is fine for FX and simple synths but imagine trying to fit something like Pigments into the rack format. It would need loads of tabs, or collapsible sections. Rack is good if you are doing loads of CV stuff, which I don't. Rack is bad if you are using modern "big" instruments. And it always amused me that Europa VST is zoomable but Europa RE is not:

Europa.jpg

I am, however, looking forward to seeing what the hires versions of REs looks like. It will be nice to be use Reason without my reading glasses! :thumbup:
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Ahornberg
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Location: Vienna, Austria

Post 26 May 2021

Without VST support I would have left Reason.

chaosroyale
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Post 27 May 2021

Add me to the "without VST support I would have left Reason" pile.

I use Reason's patching utilities to give me a building-blocks feeling and instant feedback in the rack, which I love. 6:2 mixer, Jiggerypokery splitters/mergers, Morphin Xfader, SPEM mini-mixer, all great!! But nearly all my sound creation & manipulation is done on VST now.

This is why I wanted the new combinator so much: VSTs in the rack are really powerful, but lack instant visual feedback and a UI in-the-rack, so if we can build our own UIs, that really will improve workflow and usability.

Yonatan
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Post 28 May 2021

I just use a few VSTs like EzDrums and some effects, but I prefer REs if it can do the job. VST just seem to have more clicks overall. Everytime one switch devices, one have to open the VST again while a RE is right at the disposal in the rack. But I am glad it was introduced but I could have managed good without it. More options is great, but more so in the beginning of VST in Reason, a wider freedom. Now it is less crucial, a few ones that brings something extra, but songwise and knowing mixing and recording and arranging, it is less dependent on VSTs. Even Reason stock plugins could do the job fine. But it all depends on ones workflow, and how one go about it and styles of production etc. Some would not be able to go without VST because their demands of tools.

Chi-Individual
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Post 28 May 2021

It's funny how since they've been introduced that I've come to appreciate RE's even more and just how the rack works overall. It's been said by others in this thread but not having to pause my workflow to pin a screen open that keep disappearing and having all parameters right there or with one TAB press for the CV and Audio routing makes everything so much simpler. I've tried recently to learn S1 and just the disappearing screens alone bothered me too much. They are either in the way or MIA all the time. I like that they can be resized but I've been using Reason too long I think so it's just weird to me to have to think about pin this, close that, reopen this. Also, at first I thought VSTs sounded better and "some do" but once I got the VST version of Legend and went patch for patch with the RE I just realized a lot of them are just louder not necessarily better. VST's now are more of a playground for sound design unless there's a preset that I know I want to use. The VST's that get the most use from me, and that I'm glad I'm able to use, are the FX VST's I have (Ozone, Neutron, Insight, Sonarworks, Levels, Eventide FX, etc.) If RS can truly update the mixing and mastering options a bit more I'd be completely in the box again with RS 100%.

With all that being said, having access to Phase Plant, Dune, Rapid, LABS, and my new fav Generate inside of Reason has been a complete game changer. So I wouldn't want VSTs taken away.

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killhamster
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Location: Portland, OR

Post 28 May 2021

I've been using Reason for so long and never really strayed to other DAWs or hardware, so it wasn't really a big deal to me. It's nice to have, but I know and love my tools in the Reason rack and never felt the need to use VSTs. I remember a buddy trying out a bunch in some other DAW (some cakewalk or mackie thing, I don't really recall) and just hating that they were all so inconsistent and seemingly esoteric.

Happy-Musician
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Post 01 Jun 2021

reusenoise wrote:
25 May 2021
dvdrtldg wrote:
25 May 2021
You mean you find VSTs more convenient than REs?
Think about Vital,a free vsti can blown almost any RE out of the water,don't to mention all FullBucket stuff
Personally I find Rack extensions much more convenient and usually higher quality than a lot of popular plugins. The RE layout is way better than floating windows, very neat and organised.I think many RE's get overlooked because not many big producers use Reason. Vital is an exception, I only recently discovered it and its a swiss army knife. The UI makes sound design easier than ever. Cant believe Max Tytel offers it for free. But Vital could beat most VST's too. Probably on par with Serum, if not slightly better. Vital just doesn't have the hype (yet).

MattLeschuck
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Joined: 05 Oct 2018

Post 01 Jun 2021

I almost only use VSTs now in Reason. Europa is a good example, i only use the VST version. One of the main reasons is for the resizable GUIs.
Last edited by MattLeschuck on 01 Jun 2021, edited 1 time in total.

Yonatan
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Post 01 Jun 2021

MattLeschuck wrote:
01 Jun 2021
I almost only use VSTs now in Reason. Europa is a good example, i only use the VST version. One of the main reasons if for the resizable GUIs.
I hope that RE´s can get ability to get a full screen option or floating resizable window. At least maybe the hi-res will allow for better zoom experience.

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jam-s
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Post 01 Jun 2021

The only down side of VST support in Reason is that it kind of killed the (little remaining) incentive for many VST devs to create REs and to also put RE devs into a much harder competition with existing "pro" and free VSTs.
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Kalm
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Location: Austin

Post 01 Jun 2021

Try to stay RE for convenience if the RE works as well as the VST. Hate floating windows. VST if there’s no competitive counterpart.
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aeox
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Post 01 Jun 2021

I use a small handful of VST effects, other than that it's still all RE for synthesis because VST still doesn't come close. When I'm working on a sound and I think "I want to modulate this parameter with this.." it's much more straight forward to do this with RE.

For me, a large portion of sound design isn't in the synth itself. Rather, the effects chain and parallel channels (and how they all connect with each other in a modular way. )

I still get a very surprised reaction from people when they ask me which synths I use and I tell them Rack Extensions (which they have never heard of before) :D

As far as they knew, it was just serum.

WOO
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Post 01 Jun 2021

Can anyone explain to me why a vst has to be in a floating window?
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jam-s
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 01 Jun 2021

WOO wrote:
01 Jun 2021
Can anyone explain to me why a vst has to be in a floating window?
That's because the VST requests/creates a canvas of a size of its own choosing to directly draw stuff on. Reason might be able to intercept this, but then performance would suffer a lot if all drawing actions would have to be scaled to fit into the rack.
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DaveyG
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Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 02 Jun 2021

I don't know why so many people are against floating windows. I only work with one VST at a time and it gets pinned to my second monitor and enlarged as much as possible. I would love the ability to drag a single RE out of the rack and into its own resizable window. I don't care about the cables, just give me the front panel in a form that makes better use of my screens. Maybe they need to introduce the concept of remote control panels for REs. The RE stays in the rack and a control window pops up which has a more monitor-friendly aspect ratio. You could even extend that idea to iPad/tablet. All a pipedream,. of course.

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Gardinski
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Post 02 Jun 2021

Floating windows do my brain in. I suspect that's largely because I'm working on a laptop with an already cramped screen. (OK, it's 17 inches, which is quite generous for a laptop, but not ideal for a busy DAW screen). Obviously things would be different if I had a multi-monitor setup, but most of the time that's not practical, especially for live use.

If there were a way of constraining VSTs into the rack, I'd be all in favour of them.

The exceptions are things like RESPIRO and EVI-NER, which are pretty much essential for Windsynth stuff. For those, I'm more than happy to put up with floating windows, because there isn't really a Reason alternative. But for synths/pianos etc, there are so many solid REs that I seldom feel the need to stray outside the Reason marketplace.

Also, with VSTs, I ALWAYS find myself trying to flip the rack around, which you can't do, obviously. It's one of those cases where you don't even notice how reliant you are on a feature until it's not there. (Cue 'Big Yellow Taxi' - "You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone"'.)

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hurricane
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Post 02 Jun 2021

Have you all never used another DAW, like EVER? VSTs have been in floating windows since the beginning of time. And now Reason is one big floating window.
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strangers
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Location: NJ

Post 02 Jun 2021

I've been much more selective of RE's and making sure I make use of the trial periods before buying any of them. VST have become my go-to unless I find an RE that does the job, fun to use, makes a process more efficient or on-par with the VST version (if there is one).

There's a lot of cheap, sale or free RE I wish I skipped on. I don't mind the VST floating windows. They'd be floating regardless of using Reason.

slic
Posts: 123
Joined: 01 Jun 2021

Post 02 Jun 2021

I am newly back to Reason since it introduced VST's- didn't Rack/Re instruments have lower latency (64 samples) and you have to set a larger buffer to use VSTs or am I misunderstanding that?

I actually bought Reason suite to use the instruments in the rack in other DAWS, but have been presently surprised how good the sequencer is now, so may well use a few select VSTs and sequence in Reason....Given how much quality stuff is in suite, I am not sure how much external stuff I need to be honest, maybe just a few goto's I know well.

The only thing I will say about being able to use VST's in Reason is that it can make some of the Re's look expensive at almost £100 a go, especially as they are (as I understand it) not for resale....I think the new Reason Re's like Algorithm should be £49, players £29...they would be more 'no brainers' at that price rather than 'do I already have a VST that does that'....

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