How can I get MIDI CC from my MIDI controller to NI Kontakt?

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GingerLoaf
Posts: 1
Joined: 27 Mar 2021

Post 27 Mar 2021

I am trying to get to a point where the four knobs on my MIDI controller will provide four sensible default functions to my selected rack devices.

I am now learning that Reason does not forward MIDI CC messages to VST plugins, such as NI Kontakt. I need to find a way to make this possible.
I can use Kontakt's host automation feature to draw in curves and modify parameters this way, but I lose the ability to key in live expressions and bring my orchestral arrangements to life.

I also am not interested in remote override because I want to be able to select different devices and have my MIDI controls switch to do things with the currently selected device. I am not interested in global bindings as I have limited controls and MIDI surfaces to work with.

Does anybody have good advice for a start to this journey of mine?

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Carly(Poohbear)
Posts: 2797
Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Location: UK

Post 30 Mar 2021

The fact you only need 4 knobs and you need to control something like Kontakt I would look at a 2 stage approach.

Simple way, Always run Kontakt inside of a combinator,

Stage 1, Map your controller to the combinator Rotaries.
Stage 2, Program the Rotaries to that session of Kontakt.

Looking at the default "Other" keyboard with controls the following is mapped..
Map CC 71 Rotary 1
Map CC 72 Rotary 2
Map CC 73 Rotary 3
Map CC 74 Rotary 4

So map your knobs on your controller to CC 71 through to 74..

The PoohBear...

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Tips & Tutorial's viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7503909
PoohBears Reason Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/PoohBearsReasonChannel
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My Soundcloud Page ....... Nektar Mappings
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sonicbyte
Posts: 341
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Argentina

Post 30 Mar 2021

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
30 Mar 2021
The fact you only need 4 knobs and you need to control something like Kontakt I would look at a 2 stage approach.

Simple way, Always run Kontakt inside of a combinator,

Stage 1, Map your controller to the combinator Rotaries.
Stage 2, Program the Rotaries to that session of Kontakt.

Looking at the default "Other" keyboard with controls the following is mapped..
Map CC 71 Rotary 1
Map CC 72 Rotary 2
Map CC 73 Rotary 3
Map CC 74 Rotary 4

So map your knobs on your controller to CC 71 through to 74..

The PoohBear...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tips & Tutorial's viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7503909
PoohBears Reason Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/PoohBearsReasonChannel
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Soundcloud Page ....... Nektar Mappings
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will try that idea... the only way I was able to map controls to kontakt more or less consistently was to remove the surface from the remote mapped devices in Reason and then just assign them as a "free" cc controller... very odd

By the way, if you could do newer videos on how to approach controlling kontakt (I saw all the old ones that uses loop midi etc), just how to better use Kontakt inside reason with tips like that...

Thanks PoohBear

Avith Ortega
Posts: 7
Joined: 21 Jun 2022

Post 04 Aug 2022

I am trying to do the same but with Omnisphere VST. It doesn't receive MIDI CC, only modwheel and pitchbend, and is annoying because 1: I have many patches with a "user CC" maped to CC16, and 2: I can't use the option of "Remote" of reason because I have to select a paramater in Omnisphere and there is no knob/slider that only represents the MIDI CC 16.

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Carly(Poohbear)
Posts: 2797
Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Location: UK

Post 04 Aug 2022

Avith Ortega wrote:
04 Aug 2022
I am trying to do the same but with Omnisphere VST. It doesn't receive MIDI CC, only modwheel and pitchbend, and is annoying because 1: I have many patches with a "user CC" maped to CC16, and 2: I can't use the option of "Remote" of reason because I have to select a paramater in Omnisphere and there is no knob/slider that only represents the MIDI CC 16.
There are a number of instruments like Omnisphere, Kontakt, Falcon etc. that require a 2 stage mapping due to the way they work (they are all a bit a like combinator, the internals can change and you have no idea unless you look)..

1st mapping is done internally on the device
2nd mapping in Reason.

In the case of Omnisphere you have enable the automation on the knob that you wish to control (I remember years ago looking into the mappings of Omnisphere, it would require over 50,000 (would not be surprise if that figure has not doubled by now) parameters to be mapped and Midi 1.x will just about support 128) so hence the 2 stage mapping.

Stage 1
1 omn.jpg
Stage 2, in this example I am mapping my Midi port 3 (c) channel 2, CC 16 to the Rate knob.
3 omn.jpg
A lot will come down to how you have configured your controller in Reason.
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Avith Ortega
Posts: 7
Joined: 21 Jun 2022

Post 04 Aug 2022

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
04 Aug 2022
Avith Ortega wrote:
04 Aug 2022
I am trying to do the same but with Omnisphere VST. It doesn't receive MIDI CC, only modwheel and pitchbend, and is annoying because 1: I have many patches with a "user CC" maped to CC16, and 2: I can't use the option of "Remote" of reason because I have to select a paramater in Omnisphere and there is no knob/slider that only represents the MIDI CC 16.
There are a number of instruments like Omnisphere, Kontakt, Falcon etc. that require a 2 stage mapping due to the way they work (they are all a bit a like combinator, the internals can change and you have no idea unless you look)..

1st mapping is done internally on the device
2nd mapping in Reason.

In the case of Omnisphere you have enable the automation on the knob that you wish to control (I remember years ago looking into the mappings of Omnisphere, it would require over 50,000 (would not be surprise if that figure has not doubled by now) parameters to be mapped and Midi 1.x will just about support 128) so hence the 2 stage mapping.

Stage 1

1 omn.jpg

Stage 2, in this example I am mapping my Midi port 3 (c) channel 2, CC 16 to the Rate knob.

3 omn.jpg

A lot will come down to how you have configured your controller in Reason.
Thanks for the answer. Ok, this would be a partial solution, because I have to select every parameter of every patch I have created every time I load a new one, and also in Omnisphere you can set the "amount" of modulation of the source input (CC in this case), but if I go with the Remote or Automation way the CC message is always full range, I would have to try to copy the range of modulation of Omnisphere to the Source Range of the Combinator Editor.

Still being odd that Reason do sends just some CC signals such as CC 01 (Mod Wheel) or CC 02 (Breath Control), but not the rest.

Also, because is just easier and faster, I am just changing my User CC omnisphere modulations to Breath Control CC, so I keep the same amount of modulation range I have set in my own patches, but still being not the definitive solution.

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