Rules on sale/regular prices and lengths of sales? (e.g. Waves)

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joeyluck
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12 Jun 2020

We all know Waves plugins are almost always on sale. The regular prices aren't really even regular prices in the customer's eyes with how often there are sales.

But even Waves sales typically come and go, even if it's off and on very frequently. Recently however, their 40% off sale has been running since at least the beginning of April?

Aren't there rules against "fake" regular prices or rules that say that when an item has been on sale for a period of time, that price is the assumed/new regular price?

I'm not sure if this falls under the FTC rules and guidelines for deceptive pricing. I'm not trying to call out Waves really—I think most people have a handle on the pricing and sale frequency, but I was just curious about the rules and loopholes involved. It's not like they are saying that, "This plugin is $10,000, but it can be yours for $29" (the differences aren't that drastic). But they are definitely trying to have a perceived value at prices in which they probably rarely sell.

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Loque
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12 Jun 2020

There are rules against fake-prices, at least in my country. But the definition has enough holes i guess and it is probably enough if they raise their price from time to time, even if it is only for a few days.
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Boombastix
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12 Jun 2020

Each state has their own, then it is a federal one, and court rulings, add other countries have their own, maybe EU has one too (don't know). The rules here are as confusing as Waves pricing :shock:

But, this run seems to be beyond what is allowed in general. And I think you will actually have a problem if one sales follows the next without reverting back to the original price, unless it keeps dropping.
So a original 100 now 50, followed by org 100 now 75 is not permitted, unless you revert back to 100 for a time. And by that many online store can be over stepping, but rules are a crazy mismatch and they can be vague too.
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DaveyG
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13 Jun 2020

The rules vary depending upon where you live but one thing is for sure, the Internet moves faster than the regulators so if Waves did get pinged for breaking a rule they would just say "oops, sorry!, and tweak the way they do things. In the UK you get sales from country-wide chains with small print that says "item was sold at full price in one store for x days". So you only have to sell the item at full price for a short time in one out-of-the-way store then you can discount it in your other 400 branches!

In the world of DAWs and VSTs it seems that nothing has a true value and you are taken for a mug if you pay full price for anything.

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joeyluck
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05 Aug 2020

So I received an email from Waves that the 40% off everything ends today...

ends today.png
ends today.png (17.27 KiB) Viewed 5313 times

But does it really? This same sale with different discount codes has been going for 4 months non-stop. Curious to see if it actually does end, or if a new 40% off code will be announced tomorrow lol.

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hurricane
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05 Aug 2020

As for the legality of things - I have no idea. Is anyone going to get busted for it? Probably not. But then again what do I know. All I DO know is that I will never pay "full" price for any Waves or Plugin Alliance plugins because of the never-ending "sales" they put on. Their pricing doesn't bother me, and I have my GAS controlled and the patience to wait for their next big sale (although it does seem like the current Waves sale has been going on forever). Maybe some n00bs will fall for it, but any seasoned plugin purchaser knows the drill by now.

Anyway, I'm REALLY curious to know who actually bought Knifonium at the "attractive introductory price of $199.99 USD".
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joeyluck
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05 Aug 2020

hurricane wrote:
05 Aug 2020
As for the legality of things - I have no idea. Is anyone going to get busted for it? Probably not. But then again what do I know. All I DO know is that I will never pay "full" price for any Waves or Plugin Alliance plugins because of the never-ending "sales" they put on. Their pricing doesn't bother me, and I have my GAS controlled and the patience to wait for their next big sale (although it does seem like the current Waves sale has been going on forever). Maybe some n00bs will fall for it, but any seasoned plugin purchaser knows the drill by now.

Anyway, I'm REALLY curious to know who actually bought Knifonium at the "attractive introductory price of $199.99 USD".
Yeah I have no problem with the sales. The only problem I have is that the two I want don't fit with this sale since it started in April lol

Vocal Rider - $47.99 after coupon ($2.01 short of getting a free plugin with $50 purchase)
Submarine - $34.99 after coupon ($5 too much to be a free plugin)

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hurricane
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05 Aug 2020

When I want a single plugin NOW and it's not in the $29 category, I go to Waves' site and see what bundles it's included in. So Vocal Rider for example, can be had for $43.18 right now at Everyplugin.com (but you get no free plugin), or you can get the Morgan Page bundle for $70.17, which of course includes Vocal Rider but also comes with 8 other plugins AND you'll get another free plugin on top of that.
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joeyluck
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05 Aug 2020

hurricane wrote:
05 Aug 2020
When I want a single plugin NOW and it's not in the $29 category, I go to Waves' site and see what bundles it's included in. So Vocal Rider for example, can be had for $43.18 right now at Everyplugin.com (but you get no free plugin), or you can get the Morgan Page bundle for $70.17, which of course includes Vocal Rider but also comes with 8 other plugins AND you'll get another free plugin on top of that.
Yeah I looked at all of those too. Trouble is I missed both when they were on sale before lol. I've seen both Vocal Rider and Submarine on sale for $29. I really have no use for any other plugins in the bundles and the free plugin still doesn't include Submarine so I would just be grabbing another plugin that I don't need. They're just out to get me and my money lol.

Surprisingly, Black Friday isn't too far away. Time is flying by in quarantine. So, that may be when I look at picking these up...if there isn't a sale (a different one) before that time.

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hurricane
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05 Aug 2020

This current Waves sale ends in about 9 hours. But will it really end this time? I bought something during this sale on 7/16, however I think it was spend $40 and get a free plugin?? Maybe that's how they get around the law - they change the parameters of the sales.

I'm waiting for the next Plugin Alliance sale - got my voucher ready. You know it's coming. :puf_bigsmile:
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dvdrtldg
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05 Aug 2020

The only constant law of Waves sales - and it's really the only thing worth remembering - is that EVERYTHING comes down to $29 at some point or other. You just have to keep an eye out and be patient. The one I'm hanging out for is Abbey Road Saturator

EdGrip
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06 Aug 2020

It puts me off Waves massively. I've got an irrational Waves hatred and will never buy one of their plugins, and I think a large part of that is their mad and very shady pricing game. They DO need calling out - they are the most egregious example of this "sale" business model which seems to affect audio plugins more than other software.

We badly need a price tracker website for plugins. You type in the name of the plugin you're considering and it shows you all the prices it's been sold at over a specified time window. (I imagine it would just cause devs to "new version" all their plugins regularly to reset the data, but you could have the website automatically display the previous version's data up til the release date.)

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MrFigg
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06 Aug 2020

Propellerheads gave away a free Waves device when they introduced VST. After trying to install it using Waves Central I decided it just wasn’t worth the effort and that’s been me done with Waves since then. The constant sales just serve to reinforce my aversion.
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Djstarski
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06 Aug 2020

I dont know about you , but i am happy i never have to pay full price for the waves plugins . This is one thing i would not complain about .

EdGrip
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06 Aug 2020

Djstarski wrote:
06 Aug 2020
I dont know about you , but i am happy i never have to pay full price for the waves plugins . This is one thing i would not complain about .
There's no such thing as "full price" Waves plugins.

avasopht
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06 Aug 2020

Technically this is not legal.

Eiseneggar used to do a similar thing (DFS were also exposed for this in a documentary). They'd hide items for 3 months so they're legally "available" long enough to qualify for going on sale, but you'd be hard-pressed to have ever seen their items available at full price on the shop floor (their adverts and brochures only featured sale prices). Plus Eiseneggar clothes were never even worth the discounted price - that's how you know the sale price was a con.

If a vast majority of their revenue comes from "discounted" sales (which I suspect it does) then they're in violation of the spirit of the law (and I'm pretty sure they've also violated the letter of the law as well).

To me, it just looks silly. It's like those stores with a perpetual "closing down" sale.

These practices distort perceptions of value and cheapen the trust consumers have in discounts. Would be nice if this was better regulated.
Last edited by avasopht on 06 Aug 2020, edited 1 time in total.

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Loque
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06 Aug 2020

avasopht wrote:
06 Aug 2020
...
To me, it just looks silly. It's like those stores with a perpetual "closing down" sale.
...
While this is illegal in my country, we have some stores in my town, which are closing down and having a sale since nearly 20 years here. no plaintiff, no judge :-D
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joeyluck
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06 Aug 2020

Well they've changed their model ever so slightly.

Everything is still on sale, while some sale prices have shifted. No longer a coupon code required.

No more free plugins, but "extra savings"
EXTRA PLUGIN SAVINGS:
25% OFF THE 2ND PLUGIN
30% OFF THE 3RD-5TH PLUGINS
35% OFF THE 6TH PLUGIN & BEYOND

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hurricane
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06 Aug 2020

I'm all for Waves gaming the system if there IS a system to game. Also, when I see a "pro" use Waves plugins - yeah, I fall for that. Like it. Like seeing it. What's better is seeing them use Waves plugins when they're not doing a Waves sponsored video. Guys like Jaycen Joshua - you can tell he really loves the Waves plugins he uses. And it's awesome seeing them use them in songs I've actually heard. I also like that their plugins are LOADED with presets from people like:

waves artists.png
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Djstarski
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06 Aug 2020

EdGrip wrote:
06 Aug 2020
Djstarski wrote:
06 Aug 2020
I dont know about you , but i am happy i never have to pay full price for the waves plugins . This is one thing i would not complain about .
There's no such thing as "full price" Waves plugins.
That`s good to know .

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Boombastix
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06 Aug 2020

Abbey Road Saturator - best price so far I think, $40 that is. Extra 10%, + another plugin, 25% off, so that is: $27. Not sure why anyone would complain about that for this fabulous enhancer.
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hurricane
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06 Aug 2020

Abbey Road Saturator = $31.99 with code NewPassword @ jrrshop.
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Boombastix
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06 Aug 2020

I sat through the long video about the Abbey Reel ADT. Holy moly, that is a nice one...
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Majestik Monkey
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07 Aug 2020

I bought when they were on sale , Codex , Elements , Flow motion Synths all for $29 each I also bought Waves Audio 25th edition for $19 ...
they all run fine in R11 , Flow motion a real crazy FM synth , not easy to tame Fm particles flying around everywhere :puf_bigsmile:

Big up Waves 4 quality

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