VST to compete with Virus sounds?

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BRIGGS
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Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 10 May 2020

:puf_smile: About Super saw on Europa...

I've been doing some testing. As far as I can tell, the nasty metallic sound is coming from the onboard reverb. If I turn it off, and use a high quality reverb, the metallic sound is gone. YMMV

splitpen
Posts: 57
Joined: 22 Mar 2017

Post 10 May 2020

hurricane wrote: ↑
09 May 2020
Here are 3 of my Hive supersaw patches. Each one uses a different synth engine.

SS_Massive Euphoria = Dirty. The Airwave patch in the demo I posted above. I would describe the dirty synth engine as being somewhat dark, and more in your face.
LD_Gouryella = Clean. The clean synth engine is wide, and kind of bright and airy. The distort effect provides the fizz. Turn it off to see what I mean.
LD_JustlikeMyJP = Normal. The normal synth engine has the squelchier JP resonance. See for yourself by setting filter 1's cutoff to about 53 and resonance to 60. Now hit some notes as you switch between clean, normal, and dirty. Note the resonance difference. This is how the real JP-8080 sounds. I copied this patch off my JP and Hive does it EXACTLY like the JP-8080. The Synaesthesia demo I posted earlier uses this synth engine and it is essential to making it sound right.

Presets attached.
Nice one Hurricane, thanks for sharing. :thumbs_up:
Edited the "SS_Massive Euphoria_Hurricane (Dirty)" a bit, to make it little more airy and have set the modwheel as filter cut off. The SL set to slow in the matrix sounds very nice :D
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hurricane
Posts: 1252
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Post 10 May 2020

Two totally different patches.

No offense but I prefer my version, and here's why. The playability factor. I enjoy playing mine. The reason why I called it "Massive Euphoria" is because of the feeling you get when playing this patch with 2 hands. Chords with the right hand, doubled bass octaves with the left hand. Tell me that doesn't sound nice! The attack on yours is way too high. Yours is almost pad-like. For my airwave demo, I DID raise the attack a tiny bit, but not that much. And you're using a mini midi controller of some sort? Is that why you lowered the octaves? Makes it awkward playing it on a standard 88 key. And by switching it to the Clean synth engine, you kind of lessened the impact, as the dirty mode is more centered/less wide. Mapping the mod wheel to frequency is handy, but I usually play my patch with 2 hands (I guess I could use my chin to move the mod wheel), and prefer to automate cutoff for THIS patch using my DAW.

Anyway, point of all this is, HIVE IS AWESOME. :mrgreen:
https://soundcloud.com/hurricane-music | https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiolab
Mac mini (Late 2012) | Logic Pro X | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/TR-09 | UR22mkII | Emagic AMT8 | SL990 PRO

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joeyluck
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Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 10 May 2020

hurricane wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
Two totally different patches.

No offense but I prefer my version, and here's why. The playability factor. I enjoy playing mine. The reason why I called it "Massive Euphoria" is because of the feeling you get when playing this patch with 2 hands. Chords with the right hand, doubled bass octaves with the left hand. Tell me that doesn't sound nice! The attack on yours is way too high. Yours is almost pad-like. For my airwave demo, I DID raise the attack a tiny bit, but not that much. And you're using a mini midi controller of some sort? Is that why you lowered the octaves? Makes it awkward playing it on a standard 88 key. And by switching it to the Clean synth engine, you kind of lessened the impact, as the dirty mode is more centered/less wide. Mapping the mod wheel to frequency is handy, but I usually play my patch with 2 hands (I guess I could use my chin to move the mod wheel), and prefer to automate cutoff for THIS patch using my DAW.

Anyway, point of all this is, HIVE IS AWESOME. :mrgreen:
When I'm programming and playing with super saw patches, I like to use Scales and Chords with the Anthem patch. Instant epicness.

I wonder if there would be enough interest to create a community ReFill, focused on super saw (and super saw inspired) patches.

splitpen
Posts: 57
Joined: 22 Mar 2017

Post 10 May 2020

hurricane wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
Two totally different patches.

No offense but I prefer my version, and here's why. The playability factor. I enjoy playing mine. The reason why I called it "Massive Euphoria" is because of the feeling you get when playing this patch with 2 hands. Chords with the right hand, doubled bass octaves with the left hand. Tell me that doesn't sound nice! The attack on yours is way too high. Yours is almost pad-like. For my airwave demo, I DID raise the attack a tiny bit, but not that much. And you're using a mini midi controller of some sort? Is that why you lowered the octaves? Makes it awkward playing it on a standard 88 key. And by switching it to the Clean synth engine, you kind of lessened the impact, as the dirty mode is more centered/less wide. Mapping the mod wheel to frequency is handy, but I usually play my patch with 2 hands (I guess I could use my chin to move the mod wheel), and prefer to automate cutoff for THIS patch using my DAW.

Anyway, point of all this is, HIVE IS AWESOME. :mrgreen:
Man, you're good at making friendly comments and support the kindness on the forumπŸ‘πŸ»

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hurricane
Posts: 1252
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

Post 10 May 2020

Lol, well I did start it off with "no offense". 😬
https://soundcloud.com/hurricane-music | https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiolab
Mac mini (Late 2012) | Logic Pro X | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/TR-09 | UR22mkII | Emagic AMT8 | SL990 PRO

DaveyG
Posts: 239
Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 10 May 2020

hurricane wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
Lol, well I did start it off with "no offense". 😬
"No offence" being right up near the top of the Passive Aggressive league table.
I'm not being rude but...

dezma
Posts: 222
Joined: 02 Jun 2015

Post 10 May 2020

I used to use spire yet now I always fall back one one of my 3 go-to's:

Avenger
Pigments
Dune3

If you don't have a lot of cpu go for dune3 it's efficiency is ridiculous. Oh and pigments is quite the opposite btw.

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Boombastix
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Location: Bay Area, CA

Post 10 May 2020

Post a midi clip, so we all can use the same chords etc to compare, rather than having the examples okay different things.
10% off at Waves with link: https://www.waves.com/r/6gh2b0
Disclaimer - I get 10% as well.

EdGrip
Posts: 1796
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

Post 10 May 2020

DaveyG wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
hurricane wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
Lol, well I did start it off with "no offense". 😬
"No offence" being right up near the top of the Passive Aggressive league table.
I'm not being rude but...
With all due respect,

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hurricane
Posts: 1252
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

Post 10 May 2020

EdGrip wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
DaveyG wrote: ↑
10 May 2020


"No offence" being right up near the top of the Passive Aggressive league table.
I'm not being rude but...
With all due respect,
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but...
https://soundcloud.com/hurricane-music | https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiolab
Mac mini (Late 2012) | Logic Pro X | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/TR-09 | UR22mkII | Emagic AMT8 | SL990 PRO

DaveyG
Posts: 239
Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 10 May 2020

hurricane wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
EdGrip wrote: ↑
10 May 2020


With all due respect,
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but...
I wuz just sayin' ;)

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hurricane
Posts: 1252
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

Post 10 May 2020

joeyluck wrote: ↑
10 May 2020

I wonder if there would be enough interest to create a community ReFill, focused on super saw (and super saw inspired) patches.
If we could use VSTs, this would be great. I don't ever want to stack Thors or Europas ever again. :|
https://soundcloud.com/hurricane-music | https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiolab
Mac mini (Late 2012) | Logic Pro X | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/TR-09 | UR22mkII | Emagic AMT8 | SL990 PRO

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joeyluck
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Post 11 May 2020

hurricane wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
joeyluck wrote: ↑
10 May 2020

I wonder if there would be enough interest to create a community ReFill, focused on super saw (and super saw inspired) patches.
If we could use VSTs, this would be great. I don't ever want to stack Thors or Europas ever again. :|
Haha, yeah well, at least save them as VST device patches instead. And maybe make a few using Reason devices :) I don't see why there couldn't be separate folders for each device, whether RE or VST. I'd love to see individual device patches, but also people's creativity. I'd be down to try to make a few. If anybody else is interested, we can make a separate thread.

splitpen
Posts: 57
Joined: 22 Mar 2017

Post 11 May 2020

joeyluck wrote: ↑
11 May 2020
hurricane wrote: ↑
10 May 2020


If we could use VSTs, this would be great. I don't ever want to stack Thors or Europas ever again. :|
Haha, yeah well, at least save them as VST device patches instead. And maybe make a few using Reason devices :) I don't see why there couldn't be separate folders for each device, whether RE or VST. I'd love to see individual device patches, but also people's creativity. I'd be down to try to make a few. If anybody else is interested, we can make a separate thread.

Great idea :thumbs_up:

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eXode
Posts: 756
Joined: 11 Feb 2015

Post 11 May 2020

BRIGGS wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
:puf_smile: About Super saw on Europa...

I've been doing some testing. As far as I can tell, the nasty metallic sound is coming from the onboard reverb. If I turn it off, and use a high quality reverb, the metallic sound is gone. YMMV
One of my biggest gripes with Europa is that the tuning curve for the unison section is quite terrible.

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tumar
Posts: 352
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 11 May 2020

Mataya wrote: ↑
04 May 2020
But if you want Virus sound, you'll need to buy Virus.
M
This (+ maybe Tone 2 Gladiator).
I had Virus C, Virus Powercore and now I have Virus Snow (TI). No vst synth came close to Virus sound. Yes, you can tweak some similar supersaw sounds but one move on Virus knobs and you have to search through all those vst again ;) Virus covers any type of sound and makes it perfectly in each case: kick, bass, lead, pad, fx...
Maelstrom, Europa, Thor? Please, jokes aside...

splitpen
Posts: 57
Joined: 22 Mar 2017

Post 11 May 2020

eXode wrote: ↑
11 May 2020
BRIGGS wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
:puf_smile: About Super saw on Europa...

I've been doing some testing. As far as I can tell, the nasty metallic sound is coming from the onboard reverb. If I turn it off, and use a high quality reverb, the metallic sound is gone. YMMV
One of my biggest gripes with Europa is that the tuning curve for the unison section is quite terrible.

Share the same feelings..
Last weekend i was trying out a bit. When you use the unison as modifier, it definitely sounds like the effect is frequency dependent, with less effect going up in the scale.
If you set "key" as the source in the mod matrix, and the destination to the oscilator mod at 100%, you can play with the amount for a more and less effect. This way it will be more present over the whole key range.
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eXode
Posts: 756
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Post 11 May 2020

splitpen wrote: ↑
11 May 2020
eXode wrote: ↑
11 May 2020


One of my biggest gripes with Europa is that the tuning curve for the unison section is quite terrible.

Share the same feelings..
Last weekend i was trying out a bit. When you use the unison as modifier, it definitely sounds like the effect is frequency dependent, with less effect going up in the scale.
If you set "key" as the source in the mod matrix, and the destination to the oscilator mod at 100%, you can play with the amount for a more and less effect. This way it will be more present over the whole key range.
Yes, the problem with the unison modifier is that it changes the sound when running another sample rate. I discovered it by chance a while back and have reported it as a bug.

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eXode
Posts: 756
Joined: 11 Feb 2015

Post 11 May 2020

Here's a short example with four synths. Each synth is set to 7 unison voices, maximum stereo width, and detuning amount set to 12 o clock (i.e. 50%).

1. Europa
2. Antidote
3. Expanse
4. Serum.

Super-saw-synths.mp3
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splitpen
Posts: 57
Joined: 22 Mar 2017

Post 11 May 2020

Antidote and expanse sound closer to each other. Serum sounds like a way different detuning algo?

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eXode
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015

Post 11 May 2020

splitpen wrote: ↑
11 May 2020
Antidote and expanse sound closer to each other. Serum sounds like a way different detuning algo?
Not necessarily another algorithm (according to the settings it's linear, same as expanse), but Serum likely uses a wider pitch range.

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Biolumin3sc3nt
Posts: 563
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 11 May 2020

hurricane wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
EdGrip wrote: ↑
10 May 2020


With all due respect,
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but...

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BRIGGS
Posts: 863
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 11 May 2020

eXode wrote: ↑
11 May 2020
One of my biggest gripes with Europa is that the tuning curve for the unison section is quite terrible.
I don't know. Sounds good to me. But, I'm not listening to it, in isolation. I tend to like fat stacks. :puf_smile:

Image
Last edited by BRIGGS on 11 May 2020, edited 1 time in total.

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Spryx
Posts: 134
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Nashville, TN

Post 11 May 2020

eXode wrote: ↑
11 May 2020
BRIGGS wrote: ↑
10 May 2020
:puf_smile: About Super saw on Europa...

I've been doing some testing. As far as I can tell, the nasty metallic sound is coming from the onboard reverb. If I turn it off, and use a high quality reverb, the metallic sound is gone. YMMV
One of my biggest gripes with Europa is that the tuning curve for the unison section is quite terrible.
Same... This my big gripe with Europa. It could easily compete with the best VSTs but RS chose a terrible unison detuning algorithm.
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