Phaseplant by kHs is out!

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Boombastix
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30 May 2019

I think they said in May, so guess it was time to release Phaseplant now :lol:
$118 bucks for me since I have Snap-Heap already. You can see your price if you log in and click on upgrade on the Phaseplant page.
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EnochLight
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30 May 2019

Boombastix wrote:
30 May 2019
I think they said in May, so guess it was time to release Phaseplant now :lol:
$118 bucks for me since I have Snap-Heap already. You can see your price if you log in and click on upgrade on the Phaseplant page.
I'm torn between getting Phaseplant, getting U-He's Hive 2, or getting Korg's Gadgets for Windows. All are in the same ballpark cost. :o :?
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eusti
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30 May 2019

Curious about this one too...
Not sure what’s so special about it yet though... Any ideas?

D.

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Boombastix
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30 May 2019

eusti wrote:
30 May 2019
Curious about this one too...
Not sure what’s so special about it yet though... Any ideas?

D.
We'll I haven't tried it but based on some videos and my own 'vast' synth know-how. The sound engine is not that special (see WT comment below), we have it all already in different synths (and more), sure they present several types at the same time and you can do FM, but at the end of they day you cannot make that much new stuff compared to, at least, what I can do with a plethora of other monster synth combos, as if I put two monster synths in a Combi.

The sauce is in the FX section and that each FX parameter can be modulated with LFOs, env, key presses and so on. It looks and works very similar to snap-heap, but you get it all presented in a nice one page interface. I suppose if you want to make music and you love modular/Euro rack VSTs, but do not like how much time it takes to make a patch in modular. Then this could maybe be a good fit, assuming faster work-flow to get something interesting, especially using samples + WT editor. For basic synth sounds, plucks, bases, pads, I'm sure the true and tested VSTs will have an upper-hand just because it is faster to get results. So, maybe something for a programmer geek? :geek:

I suggested they put in curves for modulation, and you can do that in the LFO - draw your own curve.
The wave table editor looks super nice, but it doesn't say if they import Serum tables.
They do not have a step sequencer for modulation/note trigger, maybe this will be added, I don't know. RP Go2's is actually pretty useful.
I also think they need more filter types, such as MS-20 and OTA cascade (ie Roland style).
If my guess about the user base who actually will program sounds, then I think they could make use of a physical modeling module (think Chromaphone)
Do they have a winner? Well time will tell as usual, but I think they need patches beyond standard plucks, big soundscapes, and dub-step basses and present what they have that is unique.
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eusti
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30 May 2019

Boombastix wrote:
30 May 2019
Thanks, Boombastix! That makes a lot of sense...
I guess I'm kind of torn as I'm somewhat a completionist... But don't really want to buy more stuff I don't use...
Time to watch some youtube videos on this...

D.

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eusti
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30 May 2019

Watching these Phaseplant videos I'm a bit underwhelmed so far... I like the features it offers, but not too impressed by the sounds that are created... Mmh... Further research is needed...

D.

Jmax
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30 May 2019

Very cool synth, and the man Navi Retlav did a chunk of the presets.

I've listened to a few of the YouTube first looks and it seems this synth is pretty capable!

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Loque
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30 May 2019

I am sure khs did a great job and i am gonna try it. But I have the same problem as others and i own too many good synths. And i am also biased with lots of features which need time to be programmed and quickly getting results. The best thing is to get quickly a good result and then tweak all those little things to make it perfect... 😁

There were a few releases in the last time that were so boring imo, like PIGmenTS, Arturia V7 and Softube with their rompler...

If it rocks while i test it, i gonna buy it soon. If it does not offer that much new stuff and it's great, i gonna buy it later on a sale.

I come back with my expressions...

Edit: just checked my upgrade price and it varies for different packages even if already own everything from khs. So look out before you upgrade...

Edit2: Just realized that they do not offer several packages anymore and have added 2 new snapins. That explains the different prices, but they still seem to be weird, because 24 for the snapins and 118 for Phaseplant does not make 145 🤔😁
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danc
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31 May 2019

Loque wrote:
30 May 2019
I am sure khs did a great job and i am gonna try it. But I have the same problem as others and i own too many good synths. And i am also biased with lots of features which need time to be programmed and quickly getting results. The best thing is to get quickly a good result and then tweak all those little things to make it perfect... 😁

There were a few releases in the last time that were so boring imo, like PIGmenTS, Arturia V7 and Softube with their rompler...

If it rocks while i test it, i gonna buy it soon. If it does not offer that much new stuff and it's great, i gonna buy it later on a sale.

I come back with my expressions...

Edit: just checked my upgrade price and it varies for different packages even if already own everything from khs. So look out before you upgrade...

Edit2: Just realized that they do not offer several packages anymore and have added 2 new snapins. That explains the different prices, but they still seem to be weird, because 24 for the snapins and 118 for Phaseplant does not make 145 🤔😁
I've been using Multipass extensively and it is one of the most intuitive UI's I've used in the DAW/VST world. I simply decide what I want to do and know immediately how to execute it in Multipass. Although Phase Plant is more complex it has the same 'natural' interface.

As for suggesting PIGmenTS being boring... erm... disagree - I LOVE IT. Well - I love the sound it makes. However, it is nowhere near as intuitive to use as Phaseplant. They've tried - I will give them that. As they try to link up modulator sources and destinations in an intuitive way - but I always feel like I have to remind myself how to do it every time. And the FX section routing feels so badly executed - with some really odd design decisions. Plus it looks like I'm landing a NASA shuttle - seriously how many graphs/charts/wiggly-lines do I need on one screen at a time?!

Where I think Phaseplant is 'rocking' is how I send 'generators' (the audio OSC's) to different LANES and really start sound mangling each LANE separately, modulating them how you want and then morphing them together as a final result. Although other synths try this... it just makes total sense in Phaseplant and thus I have been able to create stuff way beyond what I can do elsewhere.

One wish is that I want to be able to output LANEs to separate external buses - to continue mangling using other VST's. Hopefully in v1.5.

Don't disagree about Arturia V7.... totally happy with V6 and won't upgrade until 8 or beyond. Same not bothered attitude with Softube ROMpler.
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eusti
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31 May 2019

Loque wrote:
30 May 2019
Edit2: Just realized that they do not offer several packages anymore and have added 2 new snapins. That explains the different prices, but they still seem to be weird, because 24 for the snapins and 118 for Phaseplant does not make 145 🤔😁
It does when you add VAT.

D.

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eusti
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31 May 2019

danc wrote:
31 May 2019

Where I think Phaseplant is 'rocking' is how I send 'generators' (the audio OSC's) to different LANES and really start sound mangling each LANE separately, modulating them how you want and then morphing them together as a final result. Although other synths try this... it just makes total sense in Phaseplant and thus I have been able to create stuff way beyond what I can do elsewhere.
Do you mind posting some of the stuff that is way beyond what can be done elsewhere?
I'm asking, because while I see the potential for new and interesting explorations based upon the routing and modulation options, unfortunately I haven't come across a lot of sound examples that I find sonically exciting and showing cool and new potential...
To me, and excuse me, I might have just been in a foul mood yesterday when I explored this, it more or less sounded lackluster and underwhelming at best...

So, I would like to be convinced that I'm wrong about my assessment.

D.

danc
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31 May 2019

eusti wrote:
31 May 2019
danc wrote:
31 May 2019

Where I think Phaseplant is 'rocking' is how I send 'generators' (the audio OSC's) to different LANES and really start sound mangling each LANE separately, modulating them how you want and then morphing them together as a final result. Although other synths try this... it just makes total sense in Phaseplant and thus I have been able to create stuff way beyond what I can do elsewhere.
Do you mind posting some of the stuff that is way beyond what can be done elsewhere?
I'm asking, because while I see the potential for new and interesting explorations based upon the routing and modulation options, unfortunately I haven't come across a lot of sound examples that I find sonically exciting and showing cool and new potential...
To me, and excuse me, I might have just been in a foul mood yesterday when I explored this, it more or less sounded lackluster and underwhelming at best...

So, I would like to be convinced that I'm wrong about my assessment.

D.
This is a whole rabbit warren of discussion!

One really useful point for me is this... say that I want to create a really interesting bass line, but need it to cut through the mix even on crappy little speakers - thus need an extra MID BASS layer. Added to that I want to process the mid/hi frequencies with a sprinkling of delay/reverb etc. Now... say that I route the sub-bass to LANE 1 and the rest to LANE 2. Now... what I can do is add an EQ on LANE 2 that ensures that any LOW BASS frequencies that exist in LANE 2 (and they often do) are EQ'd out and then add reverb/delay etc. and for safety add another EQ at the end to ensure that the FX I've used haven't resulted in creating any LOW BASS frequencies. Plus I can use different compressors on each frequency band. Much in same way that you can do this in MULTIPASS. Plus... I also add a VCA/VCF curve in Phaseplant (different ones for each LANE) to side-chain the kick. Maybe I haven't explained this properly - but I can really nail my bass using this method.

I think a shorter answer is this. Yes - I can do this in Reason routing loads of REs and VSTs together... however... because I am doing this all in one place and not creating a complex web of cables and parallel channels in Reason, I can really fine tune what I am after.
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eusti
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31 May 2019

danc wrote:
31 May 2019
This is a whole rabbit warren of discussion!

One really useful point for me is this... say that I want to create a really interesting bass line, but need it to cut through the mix even on crappy little speakers - thus need an extra MID BASS layer. Added to that I want to process the mid/hi frequencies with a sprinkling of delay/reverb etc. Now... say that I route the sub-bass to LANE 1 and the rest to LANE 2. Now... what I can do is add an EQ on LANE 2 that ensures that any LOW BASS frequencies that exist in LANE 2 (and they often do) are EQ'd out and then add reverb/delay etc. and for safety add another EQ at the end to ensure that the FX I've used haven't resulted in creating any LOW BASS frequencies. Plus I can use different compressors on each frequency band. Much in same way that you can do this in MULTIPASS. Plus... I also add a VCA/VCF curve in Phaseplant (different ones for each LANE) to side-chain the kick. Maybe I haven't explained this properly - but I can really nail my bass using this method.

I think a shorter answer is this. Yes - I can do this in Reason routing loads of REs and VSTs together... however... because I am doing this all in one place and not creating a complex web of cables and parallel channels in Reason, I can really fine tune what I am after.
Thanks for explaining. Then - if I understood you correctly - it is a case of being more useful for your way of working, not necessarily for creating new and exciting sounds or timbres that were unachievable before. Makes perfect sense!

D.

danc
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31 May 2019

eusti wrote:
31 May 2019
danc wrote:
31 May 2019
This is a whole rabbit warren of discussion!

One really useful point for me is this... say that I want to create a really interesting bass line, but need it to cut through the mix even on crappy little speakers - thus need an extra MID BASS layer. Added to that I want to process the mid/hi frequencies with a sprinkling of delay/reverb etc. Now... say that I route the sub-bass to LANE 1 and the rest to LANE 2. Now... what I can do is add an EQ on LANE 2 that ensures that any LOW BASS frequencies that exist in LANE 2 (and they often do) are EQ'd out and then add reverb/delay etc. and for safety add another EQ at the end to ensure that the FX I've used haven't resulted in creating any LOW BASS frequencies. Plus I can use different compressors on each frequency band. Much in same way that you can do this in MULTIPASS. Plus... I also add a VCA/VCF curve in Phaseplant (different ones for each LANE) to side-chain the kick. Maybe I haven't explained this properly - but I can really nail my bass using this method.

I think a shorter answer is this. Yes - I can do this in Reason routing loads of REs and VSTs together... however... because I am doing this all in one place and not creating a complex web of cables and parallel channels in Reason, I can really fine tune what I am after.
Thanks for explaining. Then - if I understood you correctly - it is a case of being more useful for your way of working, not necessarily for creating new and exciting sounds or timbres that were unachievable before. Makes perfect sense!

D.
Absolutely - but with ONE MASSIVE advantage. I can within seconds say "What if" and click modulate and try something. A "What if" in the rack means lots of adding/cabling/routing/eq'ing/compressing blah blah and you have spent 2 or 3 minutes doing it. And then you think...arse... that didn't work and you revert back. Time wasted. Hence... this speed advantage allows me to push much further into 'nuance' experiments which gives me better results.
Check my Soundcloud:

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Loque
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31 May 2019

Puhhh...my first impressions are:
+ Good patches
+ Good sound
+ Good visual feedback, what the oscillator does
- I lost my view...i have no idea what is modulating what...
- The big oscilator displays eating all the space i could need to get a clue what routing/modulation is happening
- God damn, i did not yet understood the audio routing and how to arrange a setup with independend Oscillators+FIlter for L/R...
- Not enough and steep filters
o Scaling of oscillators in modulation setups only via additional outputs which is used as modulator
o Only FM, AM, PM. PWM only via LFO

So nice the views is, i wish i could turn it of and i wish i had a mod matrix showing me whats going on. If i have 3 Analog Oscilators a modulation desription like "Modulates Analog Oscilator" does not really help. Naming could be helpfull. At this point i really want to like it, but currently it reminds me at Fathom, which is a great synth too, but you get quickly lost in things you want to do quickly. If i need to follow a routing the 3rd time, something is wrong here...

And now...i need to RTFM instead of playing around with it...
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Breach The Sky
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31 May 2019

So far, the feature that stands out the most to me is the possibility to pile on Snapin-effects and have them trigger polyphonic.

Other than that it's a nice-sounding synth for sure, But yeah... I have Europa, and Hive 2, and Avenger.. I've actually begun to re-explore Europa as off late, and man, it's one powerful synth. Not necessarily for "fat sounding, deep basslines" per se, but awesome for just about anything else.

antic604

31 May 2019

EnochLight wrote:
30 May 2019
I'm torn between getting Phaseplant, getting U-He's Hive 2
Lol, I've exactly the same dilemma :D

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EnochLight
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31 May 2019

antic604 wrote:
31 May 2019
EnochLight wrote:
30 May 2019
I'm torn between getting Phaseplant, getting U-He's Hive 2
Lol, I've exactly the same dilemma :D
I gotta' say - taking into consideration U-He's propensity for incredible ITB presets, and the fact that they tend to work with industry leading preset-developers (I mean come on - Hans Zimmer and Howard Scarr?), I'm leaning towards Hive 2. I absolutely hated how Hive 1 looked, and they largely addressed much of my issues with the GUI/UX in the new version. But then... do I really need yet another wavetable synth (and yes, I know Hive 2 is more than that)?
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antic604

31 May 2019

EnochLight wrote:
31 May 2019
antic604 wrote:
31 May 2019


Lol, I've exactly the same dilemma :D
I gotta' say - taking into consideration U-He's propensity for incredible ITB presets, and the fact that they tend to work with industry leading preset-developers (I mean come on - Hans Zimmer and Howard Scarr?), I'm leaning towards Hive 2. I absolutely hated how Hive 1 looked, and they largely addressed much of my issues with the GUI/UX in the new version. But then... do I really need yet another wavetable synth (and yes, I know Hive 2 is more than that)?
Again, my thoughts exactly - all of it :lol:

I think I'll get some FX instead, e.g. Valhalla's Echo and VintageVerb :)

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Loque
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31 May 2019

So my conclusion for now is. It is a great synth, which has potential to grow even more. The workflow can be a bit hard, since all elements in the GUI are so huge...

I love the modulation stuff. FM modulating a samples is great. Even if i can get quite close with other Synths or do the same.

(I pretty often come to the conclusion, what a great beast eXpanse is feature wise.)

The CPU load for Phaseplant can get quickly very heavy if you do some cool modulations and put on the unison. I had 1 sample, modulating a sine and some intermodulation stuff with 8x unison. My 5hgz machine is dead...Just can use it mono. Guess here is room for improvement...

I think i gonna buy it at some point if the price is right. Everyone who is looking for a great synth and does not already own a plethoria of synths, get it.
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Boombastix
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31 May 2019

antic604 wrote:
31 May 2019
EnochLight wrote:
30 May 2019
I'm torn between getting Phaseplant, getting U-He's Hive 2
Lol, I've exactly the same dilemma :D
Eh? :o If it weren't for the Hive presets, I'd say PhasePlant probably eats Hive 2 for lunch? To 'click' with PhasePlant I guess you have to be a sound design guy who wants to spend the time, Hive 2 is sort of the opposite. Kinda like comparing a 2 seater convertible with station wagon, yes cars, but caters to quite different clientele. But that aside, you should look at ANA2 as worthy alternative. Chord player, arp, 3x wave tables, 3x sample players, and thoooooose filters. Cost less than Hive 2 by the way. It's odd that ANA2 flies under the radar considering they pretty much got everything right.
I don't have time to trial it (yet), but does PhasePlant do real time time-stretch of samples, say I throw in a riff, will the timing be in sync if a play a chord (ANA2 doesn't AFAIK)?
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Loque
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31 May 2019

Boombastix wrote:
31 May 2019
does PhasePlant do real time time-stretch of samples, say I throw in a riff, will the timing be in sync if a play a chord (ANA2 doesn't AFAIK)?
The manual says:
it will play the sample at different speeds depending on the played note, which of course also adjusts the pitch of the sample.
And no, it does not. I used this for some interesting tape-stop fx and modulated other oscilators. Sounds interesting...
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danc
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31 May 2019

Loque wrote:
31 May 2019
I think i gonna buy it at some point if the price is right. Everyone who is looking for a great synth and does not already own a plethoria of synths, get it.
I have loads of synths... however... I made an exception for this as I really love the modulation. Here is a track I made - Italian Lover Boy - which is totally only PhasePlant synths.. doing every instrument in the track... Bass... Pads... Organ.. Pluck etc. You decide if sounds any good. For me it's so organic yet clean.

Check my Soundcloud:

antic604

03 Jun 2019

Boombastix wrote:
31 May 2019
antic604 wrote:
31 May 2019

Lol, I've exactly the same dilemma :D
Eh? :o If it weren't for the Hive presets, I'd say PhasePlant probably eats Hive 2 for lunch? To 'click' with PhasePlant I guess you have to be a sound design guy who wants to spend the time, Hive 2 is sort of the opposite. Kinda like comparing a 2 seater convertible with station wagon, yes cars, but caters to quite different clientele.
Don't worry, while beta-testing PP I've been creating my PP-only tracks from scratch - drums, bass, leads, pads, etc. - and it was lots of fun, but for some reason that's not a synth I'd reach out for first if I want to do something.

While doing music I mostly browse some factory patches and then tweak them, layer them, etc. and with PP tweaking presets can be difficult, because it's quite complex and not everything is directly visible. PP is a synth where one can create a patch from scratch, when having a precise vision of how it's supposed to sound/work. It's in this weird middle-ground between fixed-function synths (Serum, Sylenth1, Hive) and open, modular environments (VCV, Voltage, Reaktor, etc.) and I'm not sure I need that? I'll reach for the former when I need "fast" and for the latter, when I need "flexible / deep". PP is kinda not-so-fast and not-so-flexible, which might not always be what I'm looking for.

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Loque
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03 Jun 2019

antic604 wrote:
03 Jun 2019
Boombastix wrote:
31 May 2019


Eh? :o If it weren't for the Hive presets, I'd say PhasePlant probably eats Hive 2 for lunch? To 'click' with PhasePlant I guess you have to be a sound design guy who wants to spend the time, Hive 2 is sort of the opposite. Kinda like comparing a 2 seater convertible with station wagon, yes cars, but caters to quite different clientele.
Don't worry, while beta-testing PP I've been creating my PP-only tracks from scratch - drums, bass, leads, pads, etc. - and it was lots of fun, but for some reason that's not a synth I'd reach out for first if I want to do something.

While doing music I mostly browse some factory patches and then tweak them, layer them, etc. and with PP tweaking presets can be difficult, because it's quite complex and not everything is directly visible. PP is a synth where one can create a patch from scratch, when having a precise vision of how it's supposed to sound/work. It's in this weird middle-ground between fixed-function synths (Serum, Sylenth1, Hive) and open, modular environments (VCV, Voltage, Reaktor, etc.) and I'm not sure I need that? I'll reach for the former when I need "fast" and for the latter, when I need "flexible / deep". PP is kinda not-so-fast and not-so-flexible, which might not always be what I'm looking for.
Good description where Phaseplant is located.
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