Waves Tune $29 - in Reason - experiences?

[Boombastix]

I saw the Waves Tune is back at $29. It's pretty old and has a small window for editing, but the "draw a line" to create smooth transition over a few keys and adding a fake vibrato, seems to be useful features that we cannot do in the Reason pitch editor.
Cutting a note into many small segments and trying to get a smooth new transitions in Reason is very hard, in Waves, you just draw a line and it creates new segments for you automatically and in snaps to scale! If you got the timing slightly off, you just draw a new line, no need to paste together and re-cutting...
The vibrato can maybe be fun for effects, or just a subtle addition once in a while.
I'm also struggling with getting the reason pitch detection to pick up the notes of live electric bass, so then you cannot do any correction at all, it just gets totally bad if you touch it. It it will not give any midi notes either.

Has anybody use used Waves Tune in Reason? Thoughts?

It is only a 7d trial, so would be nice to get some hints of what it does well and not so well.
Cheers!

[QVprod]

Looking at it, the issue you may have is that it syncs with the sequencer via Rewire and Reason cannot be a Rewire host. So it likely won't work.

[Boombastix]

Looking at it, the issue you may have is that it syncs with the sequencer via Rewire and Reason cannot be a Rewire host. So it likely won't work.

I saw they talked about Pro Tools and rewire, but did not see that it was a general requirement, thanks for pointing that out.
BUT, I tried it - AND it works. You cannot set Reason's loop markers or move Reason's play marker from inside of W Tune, that is the Rewire control. It shows a message it is missing Rewire, but nothing else seems spooky, that is great.
So you do not need it to Rewire, cause you keep the WT window open, let it float above the Reason sequencer window, and just hit Space bar and 1 or 2 to play/move the Reason sequencer as normal, and that works fine. I guess WT takes the midi messages when it follows along, jumps back/forth, and loops, phew!

Unfortunately it did not pick up the low bass notes, that is crap, as the free GTune does it very well. So, WT does not come to rescue where Reason fails, as it fails here as well.
BUT it did pickup picked guitar notes very well, where as reason did a poor job finding the picked notes.
You cannot drag and drop the midi out of WT, have to save to HD first, but it is not a biggie.

The feature to draw in pitch changes is WAY smooth, you can even use a pencil tool to draw in vibratos, or just draw a straight line to set - works very fast.
As long as you do not change the tempo, it is all good. A tempo change and WT looses the timing of its pitch adjustments.
Vocal adjustment sounds basically the same (pitch and formant), but you get rid of the artifacts that Reason sometimes gets between notes as WT has better fine control of the adjustments/transitions.

You cannot overlay the WT piano roll (audio "notes") with Reasons midi notes as WT is a separate window, however you can open the reason midi clip to see the notes, and keep the WT window next to when you need to adjust, say, a vocal to midi chords. So, side by side, AT THE SAME TIME, but not overlay (obviously), but hey it works really well. And as you can set the scale in WT, you just hammer that in, and re-tune a vocal from say, minor to major, easy as pie, fit with the chords. Before in Reason, I used a friggin' screen capture of the midi notes as a work around, but this is like 100 times better.

I also tried running 3x WT on different tracks, works fine, no conflict between them.

Still, if anyone else has messed around with WT, I'd like to hear that.

[QVprod]

Got it. good that it still works nonetheless. I have waves tune real time so I'm not surprised that WT works well on vocals. as far as changing bass notes, your best bet is probably Melodyne - not $29 I know. Most pitch correctors (including Reason's) are mainly designed with vocals in mind.

[miscend]

I have the Real Time version (which good enough for live tracking). And that runs circles around Neptune.

[Boombastix]

Got it. good that it still works nonetheless. I have waves tune real time so I'm not surprised that WT works well on vocals. as far as changing bass notes, your best bet is probably Melodyne - not $29 I know. Most pitch correctors (including Reason's) are mainly designed with vocals in mind.

Guess I should try Melodyne too. I tried NewTone from Image Line as that demo was already installed and available, and it tracks bass guitar just fine actually. Good enough to get usable midi (It is based off of Vielklang). Probably $50 on sale, just like Melodyne Essential is on sale, but then ME cannot even export midi, so would need the next level up to Melodyne Assistant ($125 at 50% off sale). Money money money... But then Vielklang CM is free if you already have Computer Magazine - great for harmonies and OK for simple tuning, but no midi out.

[QVprod]

Got it. good that it still works nonetheless. I have waves tune real time so I'm not surprised that WT works well on vocals. as far as changing bass notes, your best bet is probably Melodyne - not $29 I know. Most pitch correctors (including Reason's) are mainly designed with vocals in mind.

Guess I should try Melodyne too. I tried NewTone from Image Line as that demo was already installed and available, and it tracks bass guitar just fine actually. Good enough to get usable midi (It is based off of Vielklang). Probably $50 on sale, just like Melodyne Essential is on sale, but then ME cannot even export midi, so would need the next level up to Melodyne Assistant ($125 at 50% off sale). Money money money... But then Vielklang CM is free if you already have Computer Magazine - great for harmonies and OK for simple tuning, but no midi out.

Didn't realize there was no midi out of ME. Most of my experience using Melodyne is with Studio One and never with Reason so I guess ARA makes a difference in this case.

[Boombastix]

Didn't realize there was no midi out of ME. Most of my experience using Melodyne is with Studio One and never with Reason so I guess ARA makes a difference in this case.

I did some more comparisons. Vielklang CM just gets the bass right, drag a slider and everything is in perfect tune. No artifacts, not even on the twangs and it just finds the notes really well. I just drop in an 8 bar bass audio clip, fix the tuning and re-record it into Reason.
Problem solved with bass tuning.
For bass Midi note extraction I would just get it from the FL NewTone demo (same algo as Vielklang but different feature set). The demo actually lets you save the midi file to disk. It needs some cleaning up of those short extra notes, but it seems Melodyne does pretty much needs the same thing.

For vocals, I experimented more with Reason, and one problem area is that Reason is not detecting the note start well enough, it seems to miss where there are obvious transients at a new note and does something different.
You have to manually fix that. 1. By going into slice mode first and set the slices correct where it needs , so each new note has a slice marker, it help a great deal.
2. Or you chop up the notes while in pitch mode and move/drag the start/end point of the notes and it will automatically recalculate the pitch.
Then it all works better, especially when you want to adjust vibrato and transitions.

The full Vielklang/NewTone version ($149/99) lets you adjust attack/decay for both pitch and volume on a note-by-note basis. Useful, when you need it, but you probably have a quite bad vocal take if you need that level of control.
Anyhow, just thought I should share this as I can now probably get 95% of my pitch adjustment needs covered, with a little bit of workaround, no extra cost, so no urgency to jump on Melodyne.

I did see that ARA integration is now with half a dozen DAWs (not Reason), that Studio 1 integration looks sweet, but to get that it probably is around $500 + the time to learn Studio 1.

Another observation I did was that Vielklang's formant control sound better than Neptune, when going up. Neptune gets a bit phasey, but Vielklang does not. Going down, both sound pretty much the same.
So when you need quacking ducks or something, Vielklang is a good option.