Analog synth emulations vs sampled versions

[sleep1979]

Ie what do you think sounds better an emulation like tal uno diva repro 5 etc , or sampled sounds like in kontakt or nnxt ?, im really enjoying the sounds of some nnxt refills ( or what fits in a mix better for u )

[diminished]

I love Repro and this might be not the case for every synth plugin, but I prefer synths over samples any time for their playability and modulation possibilities and because they're smaller than samples on my hard drive (for what they can deliver).

Having that said, you don't need another $50-$200 plugin if all you want is a typical pad sound from the 80s that plays chords on the background.

Whatever gets the job done.

[Boombastix]

A good NNXT sound can certainly work as long as you do not need filter modulation. If you have CPU issues then that is another good reason. But modern VST/RE with the latest filter DSP code sound spot on to their associated hardware counterpart, even when modulating with higher resonance, but that sound comes with CPU cost... But bottom line is, do you like the patch or not, there's are plenty of good NNXT patches add well as duds?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[sleep1979]

A good NNXT sound can certainly work as long as you do not need filter modulation. If you have CPU issues then that is another good reason. But modern VST/RE with the latest filter DSP code sound spot on to their associated hardware counterpart, even when modulating with higher resonance, but that sound comes with CPU cost... But bottom line is, do you like the patch or not, there's are plenty of good NNXT patches add well as duds?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

I like the ones by pinknoise studios , i have had diva before but i sold it as it was too difficult for me to program , im starting to use reasons plug ins now like thor and nnxt instead .

[jayhosking]

Emulations all the way. Between the Legend and Arturia's fantastic collection, I really haven't looked back to samples since.

[tobypearce]

There are some raw synth samples right in Reason Factor library too.

I do prefer programming synths and have to say I don't love working with nnxt; Reason could do with an updated simple sampler.

Having said that, there is something to be said for using different sources in a track, so having something sampled, even if a background layer, is a good way to go,

[raymondh]

Both approaches can make great music.

For sample-based analog synth emulations, I'd go to Way Beyond Fairlight, Retrospective or Analog Monsters.

Bitley WBF isn't really an emulation per se, because Bitley has taken vintage sounds and applied his own secret-sauce to make old sounds come to life. There's a tremendous amount of sound design work in his Refills.

Jiggery Pokery Retrospective is like a stroll down memory lane, and has some great sounds, and they are categorised both by type (bass, lead etc), as well as by synth.

Analog Monsters has some wonderful huge analog patches.

There are variations on this theme. The refills above have some big samples with well crafted looping points. But then there are refills like Proton that have very short samples and single waves, to create something much more unique rather than out-and-out trying to reproduce a vintage synth. Now I think of it, it's a bit like what would happen in a wavetable synth, but without the morphing...

All of the above are very friendly on DSP, and get results that are pretty convincing in a mix.
And in many ways, using samples of vintage synths is particularly legitimate because many pros used to record their vintage synths into banks of samplers for performance and recording anyway!

But the various forms of analog modelling now take it all to a new level, especially the approaches where the developer models the original circuit components of the original synth. There is a lot of variability here, but the top tier I reckon would be;
- Roland ACB incl System 8 and Boutique Series (and presumably Roland Cloud but I haven't tried that)
- u-he Repro 1 & 5. The Repro 5 sounds so much more like a Prophet 5 than the Arturia Prophet, and much more analog than my actual analog hardware Mopho x4 (which I sold).
- u-he Diva. brilliant.
- Synapse Audio The Legend. It really is!
- Korg Mono/Poly and Polysix RE and VST.
- Sonic Projects OP-X II
There are plenty of others that are really good (TAL, Blamsoft VK-2, .... ) too...

So what makes the virtual emulations worth the extra CPU hit? Two things;
- The emulation of imperfections - drifting oscillators, filters, and parameters that form part of the original synth's character. Hold down any note on "The Legend" to hear what people mean when they claim an analog synth sounds 'organic'.
- The user experience - The UI looks like the original synth with the controls where you expect them, and they behave very close to the original, eg the filter sweet spot would be similar. There's something satisfying creating an arrangement with virtual synthesizers of yesteryear where you can imagine if you had the real hardware, it would have sounded fairly similar.

All of these approaches can lead to great music, and none of them guarantee great music. At the end of the day I think it comes down to what inspires you.

[sleep1979]

Both approaches can make great music.

For sample-based analog synth emulations, I'd go to Way Beyond Fairlight, Retrospective or Analog Monsters.

Bitley WBF isn't really an emulation per se, because Bitley has taken vintage sounds and applied his own secret-sauce to make old sounds come to life. There's a tremendous amount of sound design work in his Refills.

Jiggery Pokery Retrospective is like a stroll down memory lane, and has some great sounds, and they are categorised both by type (bass, lead etc), as well as by synth.

Analog Monsters has some wonderful huge analog patches.

There are variations on this theme. The refills above have some big samples with well crafted looping points. But then there are refills like Proton that have very short samples and single waves, to create something much more unique rather than out-and-out trying to reproduce a vintage synth. Now I think of it, it's a bit like what would happen in a wavetable synth, but without the morphing...

All of the above are very friendly on DSP, and get results that are pretty convincing in a mix.
And in many ways, using samples of vintage synths is particularly legitimate because many pros used to record their vintage synths into banks of samplers for performance and recording anyway!

But the various forms of analog modelling now take it all to a new level, especially the approaches where the developer models the original circuit components of the original synth. There is a lot of variability here, but the top tier I reckon would be;
- Roland ACB incl System 8 and Boutique Series (and presumably Roland Cloud but I haven't tried that)
- u-he Repro 1 & 5. The Repro 5 sounds so much more like a Prophet 5 than the Arturia Prophet, and much more analog than my actual analog hardware Mopho x4 (which I sold).
- u-he Diva. brilliant.
- Synapse Audio The Legend. It really is!
- Korg Mono/Poly and Polysix RE and VST.
- Sonic Projects OP-X II
There are plenty of others that are really good (TAL, Blamsoft VK-2, .... ) too...

So what makes the virtual emulations worth the extra CPU hit? Two things;
- The emulation of imperfections - drifting oscillators, filters, and parameters that form part of the original synth's character. Hold down any note on "The Legend" to hear what people mean when they claim an analog synth sounds 'organic'.
- The user experience - The UI looks like the original synth with the controls where you expect them, and they behave very close to the original, eg the filter sweet spot would be similar. There's something satisfying creating an arrangement with virtual synthesizers of yesteryear where you can imagine if you had the real hardware, it would have sounded fairly similar.

All of these approaches can lead to great music, and none of them guarantee great music. At the end of the day I think it comes down to what inspires you.

Great in depth answer

[motuscott]

raymondh,
That sir, is an answer.

[bitley]

A good NNXT sound can certainly work as long as you do not need filter modulation.

A professional, well sampled sound is recorded with the filter opened up (& a tiny amount of resonance can also have been added to brighten the sound even more) so that you indeed can perform all sorts of filter modulation with the NNXT. The sound also must be recorded at least with a 2- or 3 notes per octave interval, perfectly trimmed and looped.

Furthermore every note may also be sampled 10-15 times and by using ALT playback the character will vary slightly just like on a JP8 or JX8P.

This is not for beginners and the reason why you perhaps should consider buying professional refills to get all of that job done for you. And you can spend your time creating patches which uses some ultra good backbone material.

Example:

[bxbrkrz]

A good NNXT sound can certainly work as long as you do not need filter modulation.

A professional, well sampled sound is recorded with the filter opened up (& a tiny amount of resonance can also have been added to brighten the sound even more) so that you indeed can perform all sorts of filter modulation with the NNXT. The sound also must be recorded at least with a 2- or 3 notes per octave interval, perfectly trimmed and looped.

Furthermore every note may also be sampled 10-15 times and by using ALT playback the character will vary slightly just like on a JP8 or JX8P.

This is not for beginners and the reason why you perhaps should consider buying professional refills to get all of that job done for you. And you can spend your time creating patches which uses some ultra good backbone material.

Example:

Very small amount of collapsing when I switch to mono. Great job.

[bitley]

Thanks. Youtube compression slightly destroys the resonance but you get the picture.

[sleep1979]

A good NNXT sound can certainly work as long as you do not need filter modulation.

A professional, well sampled sound is recorded with the filter opened up (& a tiny amount of resonance can also have been added to brighten the sound even more) so that you indeed can perform all sorts of filter modulation with the NNXT. The sound also must be recorded at least with a 2- or 3 notes per octave interval, perfectly trimmed and looped.

Furthermore every note may also be sampled 10-15 times and by using ALT playback the character will vary slightly just like on a JP8 or JX8P.

This is not for beginners and the reason why you perhaps should consider buying professional refills to get all of that job done for you. And you can spend your time creating patches which uses some ultra good backbone material.

Example:

I think you ( bitley)band pinknoise studio fit the category professional if im not wrong to my ears they sound good , im hearing good things about soundcells too , i think im veering more towards sample sets than emulations lately , close up the filter a little and bit of reverb , nice clean sounds

[sleep1979]

Thanks. Youtube compression slightly destroys the resonance but you get the picture.

Yeah thanks