PX7 RE or free Dexed VST

Discuss VST stuff here!
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eusti
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23 Dec 2018

bitley wrote:
23 Dec 2018
Oh you're the man! That's it!!! This will be brilliant!!! I love you man!
Glad I was able to help! :)

D.

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bitley
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23 Dec 2018

Oh yes this helps tremendously. :-) Now I need a text editor tip so I can edit my sysex file, it contains two banks so I probably need to separate them first. I used to use Smultron for Mac, it was really good but perhaps isn't updated to run on newer OSes.

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bxbrkrz
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05 Mar 2019

Is the PX7 the best virtual DX7 right now? How faithful is it to the hardware? I have seen zero 1:1 DX7/PX7 on YT.
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hurricane
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05 Mar 2019

bxbrkrz wrote:
05 Mar 2019
Is the PX7 the best virtual DX7 right now? How faithful is it to the hardware? I have seen zero 1:1 DX7/PX7 on YT.
I actually just tested this a few days ago. Loading the same EPIANO 1 patch into Arturia's DX, Dexed, and PX7 I notice that PX7's sounds duller and less lively than the others. I had to tweak the PX7 to match the other two and I still couldn't get it to sound "right". PX7 sounded the worst to me. Try it for yourself and see. Of course that was just one patch so who knows if the others are similar. But anyway, that made me drop PX7 from my rack and switch to Dexed for all FM duties.
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hurricane
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05 Mar 2019

Dexed is the clear winner, IMO:

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joeyluck
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05 Mar 2019

hurricane wrote:
05 Mar 2019
bxbrkrz wrote:
05 Mar 2019
Is the PX7 the best virtual DX7 right now? How faithful is it to the hardware? I have seen zero 1:1 DX7/PX7 on YT.
I actually just tested this a few days ago. Loading the same EPIANO 1 patch into Arturia's DX, Dexed, and PX7 I notice that PX7's sounds duller and less lively than the others. I had to tweak the PX7 to match the other two and I still couldn't get it to sound "right". PX7 sounded the worst to me. Try it for yourself and see. Of course that was just one patch so who knows if the others are similar. But anyway, that made me drop PX7 from my rack and switch to Dexed for all FM duties.
I'm not sure how it compares to the original DX7, but one of the things I like about PX7 as compared to Dexed are the macro controls, and how I can quickly adjust a sound. As well as the operator pan, which I think is unique to PX7. Although the opinions you point out in another thread does have me wanting key tracking for pan. Can you do that with Dexed or Arturia's DX7?

Also, are you sure you are comparing the exact same patches? One thing I noticed, if you browse the 200k ReFill / the numerous libraries out there, there are a ton of E.Piano 1 patches, and they can vary slightly.

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bxbrkrz
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06 Mar 2019

hurricane wrote:
05 Mar 2019
bxbrkrz wrote:
05 Mar 2019
Is the PX7 the best virtual DX7 right now? How faithful is it to the hardware? I have seen zero 1:1 DX7/PX7 on YT.
I actually just tested this a few days ago. Loading the same EPIANO 1 patch into Arturia's DX, Dexed, and PX7 I notice that PX7's sounds duller and less lively than the others. I had to tweak the PX7 to match the other two and I still couldn't get it to sound "right". PX7 sounded the worst to me. Try it for yourself and see. Of course that was just one patch so who knows if the others are similar. But anyway, that made me drop PX7 from my rack and switch to Dexed for all FM duties.
Wow! Thx for sharing :(
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hurricane
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06 Mar 2019

I used patches from the DX7's factory bank for all. I just found Dexed's default sound the most punchy. You have to switch Arturia's velocity to the "Full" setting and then raise the volume a bit to match Dexed. But PX7 - not sure what's going on there and I don't have the desire to investigate any further. I just know NOW that Dexed sounds best to me. Funny how A/B-ing things opens your eyes and ears, huh? Like I said, try it for yourself. Load the same patches into both Dexed and PX7 and hear the difference. It's clear. I think it has something to do with the touch parameter on PX7, where you might have to decrease it to around -25 and raise the overall volume to get somewhat close to Dexed, which is probably the same thing as switching Arturia's velocity to "full", but there's still *something* that sounds a little off.

Someone in that other thread mentioned something about being nitpicky and all, and yeah, sorry I am being nitpicky - but Dexed sounds better without having to mess with any parameters, and it may not matter to YOU, but it does to me, and whether it makes any difference in a song, well, who the hell cares, I just want to use the *best* instrument. And right now the best DX7 emulation is free.
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MrFigg
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06 Mar 2019

Yep. After humming and hawing over PX7 I'm sticking with Dexed.
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hurricane
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06 Mar 2019

Testing things out more out of curiosity, - you can really hear the difference when testing out DX7 factory patch STRINGS 1 across all 3 instruments. Dexed sounds great, Arturia's sounds great and almost exactly like Dexed when you switch the velocity to FULL, but PX7 - man, the patch sounds bad and when you tweak the velocity, the sound falls apart.

Curious to hear what Bitley thinks. But after he actually compares Dexed to PX7, of course.
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joeyluck
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06 Mar 2019

hurricane wrote:
06 Mar 2019
Testing things out more out of curiosity, - you can really hear the difference when testing out DX7 factory patch STRINGS 1 across all 3 instruments. Dexed sounds great, Arturia's sounds great and almost exactly like Dexed when you switch the velocity to FULL, but PX7 - man, the patch sounds bad and when you tweak the velocity, the sound falls apart.

Curious to hear what Bitley thinks. But after he actually compares Dexed to PX7, of course.
I'll have to check it out. Curious how some of my favorite patches sound when loaded into others. For instance, I wouldn't want 'Revinette' to sound any different, or 'FM Growth' and plenty of others to sound different than how they play in PX7. I guess it comes down to preference as you mention and what you might expect to hear.

Perhaps we can start a different thread about this?

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bitley
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06 Mar 2019

I've tried it just now, there are some slight differences and I guess that's mainly due to the fact that they respond differently to velocity.

PX7 is definitely cleaner than both DX7V1 and Dexed - Dexed is quite noisy actually. I have a SY77 as well but I've not imported the patch into that one for further testing.

Here's a reason document with the three of them lined up, including a short played demo.

I can't say that one of these is "better", that's very subjective, but for dense arrangements I think the noise free PX7 would be quite an ideal choice.

CPU differences? Feel free to check the file and report back.

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hurricane
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06 Mar 2019

bitley wrote:
06 Mar 2019
I've tried it just now, there are some slight differences and I guess that's mainly due to the fact that they respond differently to velocity.
They don't sound slight to me. I'll be posting a PX7 vs Dexed demo shortly for you all to hear.

I was all about PX7 too, but that's because I never compared it directly to another emulation. Now that I have, and because the difference is so dramatic when playing back the same DX7 SysEx patch, I'm switching to Dexed. Ignorance WAS bliss. But now I know that Dexed is blissier. :puf_wink:

Oh, and the og DX7 was noisy, so Dexed nails that too. :puf_bigsmile:
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joeyluck
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06 Mar 2019

Of my favorite patches I've tried, I like PX7 better. To my ears they sound and play better. But again, that could also be what I am used to hearing with them via the PX7. FM sounds can be tricky, they can quickly become too harsh or lose liveliness with the slightest adjustments. Same goes I suppose between emulations...and probably really depends on what patches people are comparing and how they are being used and played.

I'm also getting stuck notes occasionally on Dexed :|

The layout of Dexed is certainly no where near as straight-forward as PX7, which is organized very nicely, including the algorithm display. Dexed is so much jumping around and getting lost when trying to adjust similar parameters on different operators. And the macro controls on PX7 are very handy. Overall I prefer PX7 for creating and editing.

What I do like about Dexed is it's free, a small footprint, and simple installation. And who knows, I may happen upon a patch I think plays and sounds better on Dexed. Not bad to have around for collaborating with those who don't have PX7.

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bitley
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06 Mar 2019

Tried a non velocity sensitive organ patch from the same DX5 rom bank and it seems Dexed pushes the high EQ curve just slightly. DX7V1 and PX7 sounded just about exactly the same.

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hurricane
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06 Mar 2019

So then, what does that tell us about DX7 accuracy? I don't have one so I can't compare, but judging by the videos and the weird velocity behavior, I'm going to say PX7 is the LEAST accurate.
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bitley
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06 Mar 2019

Housin' it up!

Whaddayasay? :D

Reason file here!

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hurricane
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06 Mar 2019

Before I even check out your file, I'm sure I can find one or two patches where Dexed and PX7 match, but so far, EVERY single factory patch from the exact same syx file, is sounding different and I will demo that shortly.
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joeyluck
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06 Mar 2019

bitley wrote:
06 Mar 2019
Housin' it up!

Whaddayasay? :D

Reason file here!
Yeah I can hear the difference. I got them to be much closer to the same by either adjusting PX7's Touch slider down or increasing the velocity in the sequencer for PX7. So I guess much of it might just come down to how it's played and how the plugins play differently?

But the first thing I did was to take PX7 and pan OP5 to the left and OP1 to the right and I instantly liked it better without making other changes to try to make it sound the same :)

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bitley
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06 Mar 2019

I realized I'd not set the volume levels exactly the same but just in the same neighbourhood :lol:

But to say there's a big difference is stretching it quite far... on the lowest bass notes you can hear three different approaches but I'd say none of them are wrong really.

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hurricane
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06 Mar 2019

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bitley
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07 Mar 2019

It was ok, but the TX7 was called "TR7" which never existed :) Personally I started making music with synthesizers long before Reason and I've had nearly all FM synths, never seen the rare DX1 though but I've played a DX5 & used to sell DX7IIs at Keyboard City in Stockholm :) I've got a DX21 and a SY77 (basically an updated DX7II and a Korg M1 equivalent in one keyboard) today, what am I using? The PX7 has been getting lots of attention lately (...bass... anyone?...) and I love it. My hardware roots are why I am making soundbanks as I want those sounds in Reason. Other synths here right now are D-50, XP-80, EPS, D-20, K4 & a few others. I've sampled all analog instruments & sold them, the only ones left are small ones like a Moog Werkstatt and one of those Korg toys. I don't like Atari Teenage Riot - but I love the name ;)

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hurricane
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07 Mar 2019

All this DX talk has convinced me to get a DX keyboard, so I am currently looking into that and expect to get something in the next two weeks. I've always wanted one and it would let me hear for myself how accurate Dexed, DX7V, and PX7 are, but particularly the PX7. A DX7 Mark I would be a perfect friend to my Casio CZ-1, and even though I also have the software version (PB's Virtual CZ) and it's very very close, I still prefer using the real CZ. Some patches are spot on, but others have clear differences, and I would say they differ more than they match. My guess is it will be the same with a real DX7. I'd be surprised if Dexed nails the sound 1-1. Expecting the PX7 to have the most trouble matching it. Does it really matter? No, but I want to know. And I also just want to use a real DX for the history of it all.
Last edited by hurricane on 07 Mar 2019, edited 1 time in total.
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ksniod
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07 Mar 2019

Not a proper emulation and not quite in the same sonic range but the (sadly often overlooked) free and open source Oxe FM vst is great too.

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bitley
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07 Mar 2019

hurricane wrote:
07 Mar 2019
All this DX talk has convinced me to get a DX keyboard, so I am currently looking into that and expect to get something in the next two weeks. I'be always wanted one and it would let me hear for myself how accurate Dexed, DX7V, and PX7 are, but particularly the PX7. A DX7 Mark I would be a perfect friend to my Casio CZ-1, and even though I also have the software version (PB's Virtual CZ) and it's very very close, I still prefer using the real CZ. Some patches are spot on, but others have clear differences, and I would say they differ more than they match. My guess is it will be the same with a real DX7. I'd be surprised if Dexed nails the sound 1-1. Expecting the PX7 to have the most trouble matching it. Does it really matter? No, but I want to know. And I also just want to use a real DX for the history of it all.
I can relate, the DX7 is a most beautiful construction and so are the other ones in the series. Built like tanks – as opposed to Casio's built like Honda Civics approach ;-) I think you'd be surprised how close all of these are (except the noise level which is higher on the hardware synth). The og DX7 only uses velocity levels up to 108 at max so the theory in recent GS discussions is that Yamaha decided the midi spec for it to be this way because it would sound too bright above 108... perhaps a kind of stupid way to do it instead of editing the patches but maybe they didn't know how (as sound programmers were different ppl than the instrument designers & expensive consultants from abroad and lost in translation at that).

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