SocaLabs Maths is funny

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Loque
Posts: 5785
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 16 Jun 2018

I always was looking for some easy way of doing some simple math stuff. Primary for CV, but also for audio. And i found a quite good solution for FREE. The Maths VST plugin from SocalLabs.

https://socalabs.com/developer-tools/maths/

I experimented a lot with some modulations from different audio sources and had quite interesting results. Even if i am too stupid to make real AM/RM/FM and stuff like that, it is pretty unique, what you can do with this thing. Also for simple stuff it is quite handy. To use it with CV, you need to convert the CV->audio->MATHS->audio->CV.

It creates sometimes some pops and clicks, when you edit, sometimes gets into ultra high CPU load (seems a bug) and the forumla display is quite tiny, so you may use a editor.

To get you started and to get you into this interesting plugin, here is a example, that creates a phase rotation of the connected audio. You need to type in the formula ;)
phaserotation.jpg
Note, that to save your formula, you can put it into a Combinator. Dunno, if it supports saving/loading of banks and patches.

Wondering why no one created such a simple thing as a RE yet...
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Loque
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Post 17 Jun 2018

It took me a while because i am a sucker in math, but here i have a square wave oscillator for you. Maybe it is not perfect tuned, but hey - i just call it "vintage circuit recreation" :lol:. Should be easy to adapt it to other wave forms. It is detuned to have some real stereo stuff going on.

Note and envelope (gte) comes from an RPG-8, thus it is mono only...

Please note, that this VST has implemented some kind of glide from a previous knob/slider position to the actual, which results in some glitch on attack time. Maybe the dev is willing to change something here - we will see.

Have fun!
Oscillator.zip
oscillator.jpg

Here is a sound example. Not that uber-glitchy, more standard. The attack was smooth out with some fx and it is mainly saturated by PMS-20 and Saturation Knob.

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wireless
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Post 17 Jun 2018

Interesting stuff Loque, but I may have a suggestion that will blow your socks off?
Get yourself a (free) copy of Wavosaur (https://www.wavosaur.com/).
This is great for exploring sound synthesis. For a real simple example, try these steps
1. Download, install and open Wavosaur
2. Under Options/Audio config, set up your audio out system (I select the ASIO for my hardware interface)
3. Go to File/New/OK (in passing you will see there are tons of options - explore later...)
4. Select Tools/Synthesis/Simple/OK (in passing you may note that the default generates a 500hz sine at -20db - play later)
5. Press the 'play' button in the transport controls and hear your sound.
The display now shows the wave you just generated. Use your mouse middle button to expand the scale.

You now have bundles of options - including the fact that this clever piece of free software has access to all your VST effects and you can try your new wave through any or all of them at once!.
For example,
1. Click the 'Rack' button to see your range of VSTs
2. Select one and click on 'Add to chain'
3. Select and/or tweak the controls
4. Go back to the top screen and click on 'Processing'
You should now hear the processed sound.

You can now click on 'Save As' to save the raw sound, or click on 'Apply' (next to 'Processing') to have the effect printed onto the wav file you are saving.

The above is a tiny insight only into the fun to be had.

PS If you want to get deeper into sound from Maths, I'd suggest you buy Serum as that lets you type equations straight into the Synth. You can input formula either into the time domain or the frequency domain. For fun you can also generate your own high contrast image files and drop them into the wavetable window......... Don't faint on me now, just saying.

User avatar
Loque
Posts: 5785
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 18 Jun 2018

wireless wrote:
17 Jun 2018
Interesting stuff Loque, but I may have a suggestion that will blow your socks off?
Get yourself a (free) copy of Wavosaur (https://www.wavosaur.com/).
This is great for exploring sound synthesis. For a real simple example, try these steps
1. Download, install and open Wavosaur
2. Under Options/Audio config, set up your audio out system (I select the ASIO for my hardware interface)
3. Go to File/New/OK (in passing you will see there are tons of options - explore later...)
4. Select Tools/Synthesis/Simple/OK (in passing you may note that the default generates a 500hz sine at -20db - play later)
5. Press the 'play' button in the transport controls and hear your sound.
The display now shows the wave you just generated. Use your mouse middle button to expand the scale.

You now have bundles of options - including the fact that this clever piece of free software has access to all your VST effects and you can try your new wave through any or all of them at once!.
For example,
1. Click the 'Rack' button to see your range of VSTs
2. Select one and click on 'Add to chain'
3. Select and/or tweak the controls
4. Go back to the top screen and click on 'Processing'
You should now hear the processed sound.

You can now click on 'Save As' to save the raw sound, or click on 'Apply' (next to 'Processing') to have the effect printed onto the wav file you are saving.

The above is a tiny insight only into the fun to be had.

PS If you want to get deeper into sound from Maths, I'd suggest you buy Serum as that lets you type equations straight into the Synth. You can input formula either into the time domain or the frequency domain. For fun you can also generate your own high contrast image files and drop them into the wavetable window......... Don't faint on me now, just saying.
Thx for the tips. I would like to stay in Reason rather than using offline tools and I like the real time processing thing. For offline I already have some interesting sound generators. With this little tool here you can do a lot of different stuff, like distortion, bit crushing, modulation and many more and I can LFO the parameters.

Serum has math and image loading? Hum... Was not really interested in another wavetable synth, but iam looking for good implementations of exactly this. Maybe i should give it a try. Thx.
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RobC
Posts: 1120
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 18 Dec 2018

Finally got to it. I wonder if it can add delay. The time function isn't clear. I can't find a link to a manual....

RobC
Posts: 1120
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 18 Dec 2018

Hmm, maybe easier than the visual wave shaping!

Getting positive waveforms was as easy as l>=0 ? l : 0

Question is how accurate the processing is? Or does the waveform get distorted a tiny bit?

On another news, I read that Thor's CV to Audio isn't the best? Like it's limited what it can reproduce/convert?

Anyways, it might be that the topic title might not be eye-catching enough. Something fancy, like mathematical wave shaper, or audio programmer, could be more insightful. (Cause you know, most people are skeptical about 'math' and 'fun' together. xD)

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Loque
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Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 19 Dec 2018

RobC wrote:
18 Dec 2018
Hmm, maybe easier than the visual wave shaping!

Getting positive waveforms was as easy as l>=0 ? l : 0

Question is how accurate the processing is? Or does the waveform get distorted a tiny bit?

On another news, I read that Thor's CV to Audio isn't the best? Like it's limited what it can reproduce/convert?

Anyways, it might be that the topic title might not be eye-catching enough. Something fancy, like mathematical wave shaper, or audio programmer, could be more insightful. (Cause you know, most people are skeptical about 'math' and 'fun' together. xD)
For what do you need cv to audio?

The time can be used for continuous modulation, but you don't have control over the frequency. I got a AM/RM going on with it, but you better hook up some oscillators for left and right for simple modulations.
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RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 19 Dec 2018

Loque wrote:
19 Dec 2018
RobC wrote:
18 Dec 2018
Hmm, maybe easier than the visual wave shaping!

Getting positive waveforms was as easy as l>=0 ? l : 0

Question is how accurate the processing is? Or does the waveform get distorted a tiny bit?

On another news, I read that Thor's CV to Audio isn't the best? Like it's limited what it can reproduce/convert?

Anyways, it might be that the topic title might not be eye-catching enough. Something fancy, like mathematical wave shaper, or audio programmer, could be more insightful. (Cause you know, most people are skeptical about 'math' and 'fun' together. xD)
For what do you need cv to audio?

The time can be used for continuous modulation, but you don't have control over the frequency. I got a AM/RM going on with it, but you better hook up some oscillators for left and right for simple modulations.
...or audio to CV. For things like FM. When I tried a subtractor test, it sounded very off and weak, using audio to cv conversion through Thor. Now I know why.

Hmm, really could use a manual for some parts of this plugin.

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Loque
Posts: 5785
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 19 Dec 2018

RobC wrote:
19 Dec 2018
Loque wrote:
19 Dec 2018


For what do you need cv to audio?

The time can be used for continuous modulation, but you don't have control over the frequency. I got a AM/RM going on with it, but you better hook up some oscillators for left and right for simple modulations.
...or audio to CV. For things like FM. When I tried a subtractor test, it sounded very off and weak, using audio to cv conversion through Thor. Now I know why.

Hmm, really could use a manual for some parts of this plugin.
Audio always runs on a higher sampling rate than CV, so keep on using audio instead of CV as often as possible, also keeps things simpler with this device.

Yea, that thing could also use some good examples and a multi line display for the formula and some brace-highlighting :-D
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RobC
Posts: 1120
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 19 Dec 2018

Loque wrote:
19 Dec 2018
RobC wrote:
19 Dec 2018


...or audio to CV. For things like FM. When I tried a subtractor test, it sounded very off and weak, using audio to cv conversion through Thor. Now I know why.

Hmm, really could use a manual for some parts of this plugin.
Audio always runs on a higher sampling rate than CV, so keep on using audio instead of CV as often as possible, also keeps things simpler with this device.

Yea, that thing could also use some good examples and a multi line display for the formula and some brace-highlighting :-D
Still, would be nice to be able to modulate pitch frequency of a sampler with it, to create FM. Or I have no clue how it works in Subtractor for example. Probably not with internal CV.

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ScuzzyEye
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Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 19 Dec 2018

RobC wrote:
19 Dec 2018
Still, would be nice to be able to modulate pitch frequency of a sampler with it, to create FM. Or I have no clue how it works in Subtractor for example. Probably not with internal CV.
CV runs at 1/64th the sampling rate. So at 44,100 Hz, CV can only produce 689 values a second. Or a frequency up to 344.5 Hz. It's basically only suited to LFO modulation, not audio rate that's required for FM.

Internally devices can work at any rate. The new Complex-1 runs at 4x internally. So 44,100 Hz becomes 176,400 Hz available for modulation. It then down-samples the audio to the normal rate before writing to the audio jacks, and even further reducing the rate for the CV outs.

The best you can do with device-to-device frequency modulation is using audio jacks. CV is really limited to just control modulation.

RobC
Posts: 1120
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 20 Dec 2018

ScuzzyEye wrote:
19 Dec 2018
RobC wrote:
19 Dec 2018
Still, would be nice to be able to modulate pitch frequency of a sampler with it, to create FM. Or I have no clue how it works in Subtractor for example. Probably not with internal CV.
CV runs at 1/64th the sampling rate. So at 44,100 Hz, CV can only produce 689 values a second. Or a frequency up to 344.5 Hz. It's basically only suited to LFO modulation, not audio rate that's required for FM.

Internally devices can work at any rate. The new Complex-1 runs at 4x internally. So 44,100 Hz becomes 176,400 Hz available for modulation. It then down-samples the audio to the normal rate before writing to the audio jacks, and even further reducing the rate for the CV outs.

The best you can do with device-to-device frequency modulation is using audio jacks. CV is really limited to just control modulation.
But how can I do that? NN-XT only has CV input for pitch modulation. Yet I do tons of re-sampling. I can't stand that I only seem to be able to get FM out of synthesizers (internally pre-routed only), and that's it.

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ScuzzyEye
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Post 20 Dec 2018

RobC wrote:
20 Dec 2018
ScuzzyEye wrote:
19 Dec 2018
The best you can do with device-to-device frequency modulation is using audio jacks. CV is really limited to just control modulation.
But how can I do that? NN-XT only has CV input for pitch modulation. Yet I do tons of re-sampling. I can't stand that I only seem to be able to get FM out of synthesizers (internally pre-routed only), and that's it.
The bad news is I don't think you can. At least until someone makes a sampler that does FM with an audio input.

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Loque
Posts: 5785
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 20 Dec 2018

RobC wrote:
20 Dec 2018
ScuzzyEye wrote:
19 Dec 2018

CV runs at 1/64th the sampling rate. So at 44,100 Hz, CV can only produce 689 values a second. Or a frequency up to 344.5 Hz. It's basically only suited to LFO modulation, not audio rate that's required for FM.

Internally devices can work at any rate. The new Complex-1 runs at 4x internally. So 44,100 Hz becomes 176,400 Hz available for modulation. It then down-samples the audio to the normal rate before writing to the audio jacks, and even further reducing the rate for the CV outs.

The best you can do with device-to-device frequency modulation is using audio jacks. CV is really limited to just control modulation.
But how can I do that? NN-XT only has CV input for pitch modulation. Yet I do tons of re-sampling. I can't stand that I only seem to be able to get FM out of synthesizers (internally pre-routed only), and that's it.
Maybe this gets you quite close. Dunno if the maths is 100% right and it hasa problem with the DC offset, but it worked quite well. Carrier is a square, modulator is a sin...i hope :-D
fm.jpg
Here is a patch, which i made a bit stereo and different envelopes for M and C. Sound freaking awsome, well at least at 96khz.
FM Maths2.zip
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RobC
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Post 23 Dec 2018

ScuzzyEye wrote:
20 Dec 2018
RobC wrote:
20 Dec 2018


But how can I do that? NN-XT only has CV input for pitch modulation. Yet I do tons of re-sampling. I can't stand that I only seem to be able to get FM out of synthesizers (internally pre-routed only), and that's it.
The bad news is I don't think you can. At least until someone makes a sampler that does FM with an audio input.
Hmm, maybe it's possible in Reaktor?

RobC
Posts: 1120
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 23 Dec 2018

Loque wrote:
20 Dec 2018
RobC wrote:
20 Dec 2018


But how can I do that? NN-XT only has CV input for pitch modulation. Yet I do tons of re-sampling. I can't stand that I only seem to be able to get FM out of synthesizers (internally pre-routed only), and that's it.
Maybe this gets you quite close. Dunno if the maths is 100% right and it hasa problem with the DC offset, but it worked quite well. Carrier is a square, modulator is a sin...i hope :-D
fm.jpg

Here is a patch, which i made a bit stereo and different envelopes for M and C. Sound freaking awsome, well at least at 96khz.
FM Maths2.zip
How does that work? Cause normally, we need to modulate pitch for FM. But yeah, I use 192 kHz, too mostly because I resample a ton. But I check other sample rates, especially when FM is used. Depends on the synth.

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Loque
Posts: 5785
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 23 Dec 2018

RobC wrote:
23 Dec 2018
Loque wrote:
20 Dec 2018

Maybe this gets you quite close. Dunno if the maths is 100% right and it hasa problem with the DC offset, but it worked quite well. Carrier is a square, modulator is a sin...i hope :-D
fm.jpg

Here is a patch, which i made a bit stereo and different envelopes for M and C. Sound freaking awsome, well at least at 96khz.
FM Maths2.zip
How does that work? Cause normally, we need to modulate pitch for FM. But yeah, I use 192 kHz, too mostly because I resample a ton. But I check other sample rates, especially when FM is used. Depends on the synth.
I dunno exactly...just googled for the FM math and found that forumla. Results look as expected. Lots of formular work on one sample, so they are quite easy to implement. The same way i made the "phase rotation" - just looked for the transformation matrix formula of 2d rotation and et voila!
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RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 23 Dec 2018

Loque wrote:
23 Dec 2018
RobC wrote:
23 Dec 2018


How does that work? Cause normally, we need to modulate pitch for FM. But yeah, I use 192 kHz, too mostly because I resample a ton. But I check other sample rates, especially when FM is used. Depends on the synth.
I dunno exactly...just googled for the FM math and found that forumla. Results look as expected. Lots of formular work on one sample, so they are quite easy to implement. The same way i made the "phase rotation" - just looked for the transformation matrix formula of 2d rotation and et voila!
Oh, I see; though some phase rotators kind of deform the sound, so there's more headroom in the end - though what I've met, doesn't sound clean at all. They get this indeed grainy effect as they say.

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Loque
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Post 28 Dec 2018

Man...its so suprisingly easy to implement a few algorithms. Here is a simple WAVE FOLDing:
wavefolding.jpg
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selig
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Post 31 Dec 2018

RobC wrote:
ScuzzyEye wrote:
20 Dec 2018
The bad news is I don't think you can. At least until someone makes a sampler that does FM with an audio input.
Hmm, maybe it's possible in Reaktor?
Pretty much anything is possible in Reaktor, with few exceptions.


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RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 03 Jan 2019

selig wrote:
31 Dec 2018
RobC wrote:
Hmm, maybe it's possible in Reaktor?
Pretty much anything is possible in Reaktor, with few exceptions.


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That's really good news, cause I really am looking for ways to be able to create proper FM with sampled, static, generated synth sounds. That's when I could endlessly "reinvent"' a sound (as long as it surpasses the previous re-sampling/reinventing of course).

RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 09 Jan 2019

Very interesting stereo effect possibility from mono signal!

Left: l>=0 ? l : 0

Right: l<=0 ? l : 0

Positive waveforms go to the left, negative ones to the right.

EDIT:

It was in front of my eyes all the time, yet it's such a powerful little possibility when it comes to positive and negative waveforms. Even those on their own can be processed. Of course, there's some trickiness, so gotta be careful, but yeah, this doubled possibilities once more.
Last edited by RobC on 09 Jan 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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Loque
Posts: 5785
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 09 Jan 2019

RobC wrote:
09 Jan 2019
Very interesting stereo effect possibility from mono signal!

Left: l>=0 ? l : 0

Right: l<=0 ? l : 0

Positive waveforms go to the left, negative ones to the right.
Interesting...this seem to be some kind of amplitude modulation in a strange stereo way...Sky is the limit!
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RobC
Posts: 1120
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 09 Jan 2019

Loque wrote:
09 Jan 2019
RobC wrote:
09 Jan 2019
Very interesting stereo effect possibility from mono signal!

Left: l>=0 ? l : 0

Right: l<=0 ? l : 0

Positive waveforms go to the left, negative ones to the right.
Interesting...this seem to be some kind of amplitude modulation in a strange stereo way...Sky is the limit!
If we imagine something as simple as a square wave, you can see, that there's never something happening in both channels at the same time. It's also 100% mono compatible. Can create weird distortion-like effect, especially with polyphonic melodies. One may want to keep that even in mono, but with a bit of brain work, that can be solved. Though as is, the interesting thing is that there's no destruction really happening.

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selig
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Post 11 Jan 2019

RobC wrote:Very interesting stereo effect possibility from mono signal!

Left: l>=0 ? l : 0

Right: l<=0 ? l : 0

Positive waveforms go to the left, negative ones to the right.

EDIT:

It was in front of my eyes all the time, yet it's such a powerful little possibility when it comes to positive and negative waveforms. Even those on their own can be processed. Of course, there's some trickiness, so gotta be careful, but yeah, this doubled possibilities once more.
I’ve been doing the same thing in Complex by modulating the pan at audio rates. This essentially puts the positive and negative parts of the waveform in opposite speakers.
See my patch “Humongous” for Complex-1 in the “Melodic” folder, specifically Output Mixer channel 3.

Taking it further, by modulating the depth of the effect with an LFO you can get a nice swirly stereo effect. There’s also a little movement in the stereo field related to pitch, which means as you play in different registers the stereo effect slightly shifts - but maybe this is related specifically to how Complex-1 oversamples…

Also, try it with noise - even more interesting effect!

The “distortion” effect is very interesting, in that it disappears when you collapse the stereo signal to mono. I found it a great way to get a wider stereo image from a synth that wasn’t natively “stereo” (unless you count the FX section).


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