Europa VST/AU!!!!!

[EdGrip]

... but no Reason 10 Lite users

Scandalous! It's almost like Reason 10 Lite is a limited version with fewer features!

[Oquasec]

Propellerhead was too busy making one of the most stable sandboxed environments to worry about vst support, and didn't need to because of the EMI module & Rewire.
That thing being in there like that will be nothing short of a bonus feature for the rest of reason's existence.
The fact of the matter is, protools or Reason have been doing things other daws have never and most likely not do the same.
FL Studio also does not function like most other daws, recently getting time signature changing markers in FL20 when everything else had it forever.

[EnochLight]

A ScottyM gem from KVR:

Jesus. He must of ran out of ideas to mutilate another GUI.

[esselfortium]

A ScottyM gem from KVR:

18 year old tiny rack

can’t believe scotty is accidentally pasting his porn searches into kvr.

[EnochLight]

A ScottyM gem from KVR:

18 year old tiny rack

can’t believe scotty is accidentally pasting his porn searches into kvr.

LMAO!!!! I literally just spit my coffee out - thanks for that, Sarah!

[JiggeryPokery]

A ScottyM gem from KVR:

yet the ... rack they created and has never been bigger than it is now in height and actual width, a core part of the program. ...VST was right on the table 10 years ago.

Devil's advocate here!

How exactly is that particular part of his assessment fundamentally incorrect, at least based on known facts? It's easy to denigrate everything he says because he's "ScottyM of the Funny Graphics", but that's lazy. Yes, he's baiting using patronising terms like "boys and girls" and "Reason fanbois", which doesn't help, but that's not the same as being entirely wrong, that's just baiting.

I'm neither for or against VST anything here, but on the two specific points I've quoted he's 100% corrrect.

1) We know VST was on the table 10 years ago, that's on the record from PH themselves; an early version of VST support was tested back then, and that was iterated upon at least as a starting point for whatever was eventually added for Reason 9.5.

And 2) despite high resolution graphics being one of the USPs of the RE SDK, which while designed as a multi-platform system, has only now been used to create a VST/AU with high resolution graphics using the RE SDK, for any appropriate DAW, before any REs, including the RE version of Europa, were able to do that in the only program they can be used in! Thus us far as we, the users, are concerned, again ScottyM is correct: the rack has never been bigger than it was in 1999.

Indeed, it's worse than that. It's mostly smaller, as pixel densities for many users will be a lot tighter: try running Reason on a full HD laptop with a 13" screen, then compare it to a 15" laptop from the early 00s. On the plus side, there is more on screen on your Full HD view! On the downside, though, it's all bloody tiny. So, it's not even about the big headline 4K resolution necessarily; plenty of users will be quietly suffering even at the 2K resolution of Full HD.

Instead of being casually dismissive, because that's the easy way out, actually consider what he's said amongst his bullshit baity bits, and apply some critical thinking: six years this month since REs launched (6.5), four major (paid) upgrades (7, 8, 9, 10), and five or six additional point releases in between 7 and today, there's still no use of high resolution art in Reason REs for high density displays.

Doesn't that at least suggest that there is, or at least has been, something fishy about not updating the Reason GUI to support UHD, remembering that all REs had high res art specifically to support high resolution displays from 2012?

If it has long been possible in a dev version of Reason, then there was no reason to have withheld it from a public release this long, other than delaying it as long as possible to get an extra bullet point into the feature list of a paid upgrade cycle in a feature-poor future version of Reason, i.e., if it was available for the content-only Reason 10, but held back, that'd be really cynical. Were it suddenly to appear in a theoretical Reason 10.x, then whatever the delay, at least PH could simply claim it was always part of the Reason 10 cycle, even if introducing it now would be largely to encourage any v8/9 holdouts to upgrade to 10 now rather than wait til 11 in, presumably, 2019. But many holdouts who've lived without R10 content this long, will likely now wait and see what happens next year anyway, even were there a UHD Reason GUI in 10.x in the next few months. So on that basis, I don't see a business case for a 10.x with a UHD GUI, other than bumping it up right now to September, if only to make me look an idiot. But since that reason is covered off, I'll just look like a prescient idiot. .

But if it now appears in Reason 11, not in the 10 cycle at all, then it was held back from 10 until 11 soley to help drive the next version upgrade to owners of 10 as well, even though it could have been applied in the 10 cycle. This would mean R10 upgraders have effectively paid for it twice (especially given VST/AU purchasers may significantly contribute to the development costs of Europa, which means the R10 upgrade was just paying Grain, and a lot of content licensing (and worse, just the licensed content if Grain gets the VST/AU treatment too)). But, better late than never, and if it looks great then splendid, and the minutae of amortization costs soon becomes forgotten, even to those who might consider it.

However, then there's the big one: if it doesn't appear in Reason 11.0 either, especially now given support for a high res VST within Reason from the RE SDK, then that would be have to be taken as compelling evidence that upgrading the Reason graphics base, and updating the REs themselves to use the high res art already available to them, is hugely problematic, at least to the extent it's taking far, far longer than anticipated. And that's the best case scenario. At worst, it's proved impossible without a huge rewrite they're not prepared to do for cost reasons.

That's a lot of "ifs", yes, but they're all rational, based on what we know now. And two of them are correct. One, that I'm an idiot. The other... we'll see when R10.x or R11 come out.

So, that's what you can take away from that "gem" of a ScottyM post, if you think about it

[JiggeryPokery]

can’t believe scotty is accidentally pasting his porn searches into kvr.

Brilliant! :p

[EnochLight]

Devil's advocate here!

Having valid points scattered throughout a clearly baiting troll post is just par for the course, though. ScottyM/THE INTRANCER (lol!) has a long history of doing exactly that. The real brain twister is: why does he constantly lurk around Reason posts and offer his 2 cents when he 1. no longer uses the program, and 2. is known for bait/troll posts? I mean, let's just call a spade a spade. That's some weird shit, right there.

Anyway, I fear we're derailing this thread and all, so.. yay Europa VST!

[EdGrip]

Although I shouldn't really need to explain, it was mainly this bit that I was pointing and laughing at (to the extent that it's comprehensible; I dunno what he's on about towards the end of the paragraph.)

"Even this offer is a slap in the face for Propellerhead users themselves and they can't even see that. This a native instrument that is supposed to be exclusive to those who own Reason, but no... they give it away so it's not, and people swallow the bait that's it's some how dumbed down because it''s not in the rack.."

See? Gem.

[jimmyklane]

Although I shouldn't really need to explain, it was mainly this bit that I was pointing and laughing at (to the extent that it's comprehensible; I dunno what he's on about towards the end of the paragraph.)

"Even this offer is a slap in the face for Propellerhead users themselves and they can't even see that. This a native instrument that is supposed to be exclusive to those who own Reason, but no... they give it away so it's not, and people swallow the bait that's it's some how dumbed down because it''s not in the rack.."

See? Gem.

There is some truth to the beginning of the quoted part, but the part about “users themselves can’t see that” is stupid and as already mentioned a baiting tactic. I’ve been rebuked by some forum members for my opinion on this, but the “Reason sound” will no longer belong to us when all the new and flashy devices are ported over to VSTs....inevitably the idea that people will just buy into Reason and abaondon a DAW that they A: may have paid $1200 for (Ableton Suite, Steinberg Nuendo) and B: are intimately familiar with is almost certainly a pipe dream.

I have experienced nothing but grief with the VST. It crashes Reason but hangs the process so that I have to restart my machine for Reason to work again....and after all, it is literally the same instrument so we need not discuss the sound. Code is code.

[esselfortium]

I’ve been rebuked by some forum members for my opinion on this, but the “Reason sound” will no longer belong to us when all the new and flashy devices are ported over to VSTs....inevitably the idea that people will just buy into Reason and abaondon a DAW that they A: may have paid $1200 for (Ableton Suite, Steinberg Nuendo) and B: are intimately familiar with is almost certainly a pipe dream.

I don't think this is a real thing, it never has been. Maybe in the 1.0 days. All modern DAWs are incredibly powerful and versatile and can sound like anything you can dream up. Even most relatively basic synths can sound countless thousands of ways. My music sounds like my music, not like the DAW it was produced in or the synths I used.

If someone is able to pick out which synth's oscillators and filters were used in one of my songs, then 1) I am extremely surprised and 2) they are a tiny minority of listeners who have the experience and the ears to pick up on minuscule details nonexistent to everyone else. (This is of course a bit different when you get into sample libraries, but we're talking about a synth here.)

[EdGrip]

Also, the implication is that you're fine with it if they actually buy Reason, but feel aggrieved if they buy Europa and sequence it with another DAW.

So if everyone sacks off their favourite DAW and buys Reason instead, that's acceptable, but not if they just buy Europa and use it to make unique Europa noises (?) in Reaper.
Like as if people buy a DAW for the particular sound of its stock devices rather than just because it's the environment they like best.

The logic is that people buy a DAW with the expectation that only users of that DAW have access to its stock instruments and that by allowing *just anyone* to use those instruments, they're breaking some kind of unwritten contract, or undermining the value of their investment, or something. It's just a weird outlook - the funny bit about ScottyM's post is he seems to think it's a universal truth of DAW ownership that Reason users would be up in arms about if they weren't so stupid, rather than just a mad thing that's occurred to almost nobody.

[EnochLight]

Also, the implication is that you're fine with it if they actually buy Reason, but feel aggrieved if they buy Europa and sequence it with another DAW.

So if everyone sacks off their favourite DAW and buys Reason instead, that's acceptable, but not if they just buy Europa and use it to make unique Europa noises (?) in Reaper.
Like as if people buy a DAW for the particular sound of its stock devices rather than just because it's the environment they like best.

The logic is that people buy a DAW with the expectation that only users of that DAW have access to its stock instruments and that by allowing *just anyone* to use those instruments, they're breaking some kind of unwritten contract, or undermining the value of their investment, or something. It's just a weird outlook - the funny bit about ScottyM's post is he seems to think it's a universal truth of DAW ownership that Reason users would be up in arms about if they weren't so stupid, rather than just a mad thing that's occurred to almost nobody.

Well, as said earlier - that's just par for the course with him. I'm sure very few people are actually aggrieved that non-Reason users can get Europa VST and use it in their DAW of choice. Certainly less than he has created in his mind.

[Koshdukai]

... we'll see when R10.x or R11 come out.

Redoing all native/non-Re rack devices and the rest of the bitmap assets still used in Reason must be taking its time... Unless they're slowly re-engineering all of them into the RE format, to ensure platform portability, besides GUI resizing

[grooveq]

Be nice if Props could get their proverbial together and make this work in Cubase 9.5 on the mac...bit pathetic imho!

[QVprod]

Oddly enough both AU and VST work in Studio One 3.5. Neither works in Studio One 4 on Yosemite but the AU works on Sierra. Works perfectly fine in Reason, Ableton and Mainstage though so it's probably a Studio One 4 issue.

[Mati Navas]

The decision from Props to release Europa VST/AU is not surprising. It opens up a new revenue stream.

In the past, I wrote about bringing Reason functionality to other DAWs via VST instead of having to use the rather suboptimal solution named Rewire. Maybe we will never see a Combinator type of VST where you can hook up different instruments and effects as in Reason. But for sure I like the route Props is going with this release.

One general question: Is someone eligible for the free license of Europa who has bought/upgraded to Reason 10 after the release?

[esselfortium]

One general question: Is someone eligible for the free license of Europa who has bought/upgraded to Reason 10 after the release?

Yes! There was some miscommunication about that at first in the KVR thread, but a PH employee eventually cleared things up. The Europa VST is a part of Reason 10, permanently.

[Mati Navas]

Thanks for the info!

[MikeMcKew]

Andrew Huang has done a thing:

I was interested when we'd see a video from him when I saw his name on some of the patches in the web version.

[esselfortium]

The preview image on that video is truly frightening.

[svenh]

Also Redrum, Thor and other legacy rack devices won't come due to the, being part of the core of Reason.

Unless they are upgraded and made into REs

[Loque]

Andrew Huang has done a thing:

I was interested when we'd see a video from him when I saw his name on some of the patches in the web version.

Typical Reason sound imo...

[supersplaron]

Cubase users rejoice! We've updated Europa by Reason today and squashed the bug causing the plugin the crash and get blacklisted in Cubase Pro 9.5.

Europa by Reason owners will find the updated download on the VST tab on the Products page in your Propellerhead account.

Version history:

2.0.0d84

Fixed a bug where Europa could become blacklisted and crash in Cubase 9 on Mac.

[nickb523]

Cubase users rejoice! We've updated Europa by Reason today and squashed the bug causing the plugin the crash and get blacklisted in Cubase Pro 9.5.

Europa by Reason owners will find the updated download on the VST tab on the Products page in your Propellerhead account.

Version history:

2.0.0d84

Fixed a bug where Europa could become blacklisted and crash in Cubase 9 on Mac.

Any chance of adding the ability to open ReFills on the VST? - As a ReFill dev it seems silly that in order to support the VST version, we have to supply both packed and unpacked versions of our ReFill products.

Thanks!

Nick