Can't use Melodyne Editor VST in Reason 10

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KellyForte
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Post 15 Apr 2018

I am trying to use Melodyne Editor with Reason 10 but it isn't showing up in my effects. The "Manage Plugins" window tells me that the plugin's status is "Crashed" and also says "This plugin was automatically disabled because it crashed or caused Reason to hang." Trying to enable it causes a window at restart that says:

"Plugin Errors

There were errors when inspecting some plugins. Check plugin status in the Manage Plugins window."

Am I not able to use Melodyne in Reason at all? I plan on using it on polyphonic audio, which is something that Reason's own pitch correction feature cannot do. I am grateful for your help.
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groggy1
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Post 15 Apr 2018

It works for me. What version of editor do you have? (and is it the latest?)

The integration with Reason isn't great (since Reason doesn't support ARA integration), but generally you can get things done: You can capture audio, and then manipulate it to your heart's content

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EnochLight
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Post 17 Apr 2018

I'm on Editor version 4.1.1.011 and 64-bit. Works fine for Reason 10.0.3 on my system, though I have seen the plugin crash occasionally at startup. It's rock solid running stand alone, though.
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WeLoveYouToo
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Post 06 Mar 2019

i have surprizingly never realized melodyne can work as a vst in reason until today, i have been using it as a separate app due to habit from version 1.
how exactly do i get reason to register melodyne as a vst? it doesn't show up in my vst list, and it is in my osx mojave vst folder as melodyne.vst

S1GNL
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Post 06 Mar 2019

What’s wrong with Pitch Edit? What do you miss?

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eusti
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Post 06 Mar 2019

Ok. As I recall for Mac Melodyne is only VST 3 with no intent of changing that. :(
Reason doesn’t do VST 3.

D.

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WeLoveYouToo
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Post 06 Mar 2019

S1GNL wrote:
06 Mar 2019
What’s wrong with Pitch Edit? What do you miss?
you have clearly never used melodyne.
it’s quality is leagues beyond reason’s native pitch edit. melodyne sounds undetectable. reason’s pitch edit is ok for some uses, but on vocals it’s not ideal unless you want an electronica sound.
plus you can change individual strings pitch in a guitar chord so you can turn a major into a minor
plus you can edit the formants
plus you can edit pitch drift separate from pitch vibrato
plus the transitions between notes are more editable
plus it can pitch correct drums, which in reason i can’t do at all without it sounding like digital artifacts.
but the main difference is quality.
it’s like subtractor vs europa, one is just more capable.

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WeLoveYouToo
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Post 06 Mar 2019

eusti wrote:
06 Mar 2019
Ok. As I recall for Mac Melodyne is only VST 3 with no intent of changing that. :(
Reason doesn’t do VST 3.

D.
it’s in the vst folder with a .vst extention
vst3 format plug ins have a .vst3 extention, which reason does not utilize and which is what you are thinking of

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eusti
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Post 06 Mar 2019

WeLoveYouToo wrote:
06 Mar 2019
eusti wrote:
06 Mar 2019
Ok. As I recall for Mac Melodyne is only VST 3 with no intent of changing that. :(
Reason doesn’t do VST 3.

D.
it’s in the vst folder with a .vst extention
vst3 format plug ins have a .vst3 extention, which reason does not utilize and which is what you are thinking of
Not sure if you are on a Mac or not.
Here's a quote from Celemony from an email exchange a while ago:

"...we do not offer VST2 in 64 bit under macOS.
You will need to ask for VST3 support for Reason, since this newer version has been around for years."

D.

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EnochLight
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Post 06 Mar 2019

WeLoveYouToo wrote:
06 Mar 2019
S1GNL wrote:
06 Mar 2019
What’s wrong with Pitch Edit? What do you miss?
you have clearly never used melodyne.
it’s quality is leagues beyond reason’s native pitch edit. melodyne sounds undetectable. reason’s pitch edit is ok for some uses, but on vocals it’s not ideal unless you want an electronica sound.
Sorry, but I disagree. Reason's Audio Pitch Editor sounds no different than Melodyne, and I've got the latest version of Melodyne Editor. I mean sure - you can get that electronica sound if you want (just like you can in Melodyne), but I'm seriously interested in what you're doing in that you can't get similar results with Reason's own pitch editor.

Now had you gone on about Melodyne Editor's DNA, then I'd say hell yeah. Direct Note Access is the stuff magic is made of, and Melodyne's witchcraft isn't matched by anything out there to my knowledge.
WeLoveYouToo wrote:
06 Mar 2019
plus you can change individual strings pitch in a guitar chord so you can turn a major into a minor
plus you can edit the formants
plus you can edit pitch drift separate from pitch vibrato
plus the transitions between notes are more editable
plus it can pitch correct drums, which in reason i can’t do at all without it sounding like digital artifacts.
but the main difference is quality.
it’s like subtractor vs europa, one is just more capable.
Reason's Audio Pitch Editor is comparable to Melodyne Essentials. Reason's allows you to edit formants, drift/vibrato, drift expression (preservation), and of course transition along with other typical things (clip position, quantize, etc). It sounds fantastic to my ears, and can be just as natural as you need it to be.

I still use Melodyne Editor for DNA though, as well as extracting a tempo track.
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ScuzzyEye
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Post 06 Mar 2019

EnochLight wrote:
06 Mar 2019
Sorry, but I disagree. Reason's Audio Pitch Editor sounds no different than Melodyne, and I've got the latest version of Melodyne Editor.
I agree with your disagreement. Reason's Pitch Editor sounds transparent, as long as you aren't pushing beyond sensible bounds. (The same as Melodyne.)

I'll also add, that maybe Melodyne can be quickly used as a VST, but without ARA (Audio Random Access) provided by the VST3 host, it feels clunky. You have to "play" the audio to be tuned into Melodyne, and it makes its own copy of it. If you change anything with the audio in the host, you have to replay it again.

I have Melodyne Studio. For any real work, I'd rather treat it as its own process. Record in Reason, edit for the take(s) that I want. Bounce those to disk, and load into Melodyne. Do the corrections there, and export for use in Reason. That's what's happening when you use the VST anyway, albeit a little more automated.

So until Reason gets VST3 with ARA, pitch correction is it's own process.

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EnochLight
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Post 06 Mar 2019

ScuzzyEye wrote:
06 Mar 2019
So until Reason gets VST3 with ARA, pitch correction is it's own process.
I'm willing to bet the farm that Reason never gets ARA support. :puf_bigsmile: :lol:
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WeLoveYouToo
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Post 07 Mar 2019

EnochLight wrote:
06 Mar 2019
ScuzzyEye wrote:
06 Mar 2019
So until Reason gets VST3 with ARA, pitch correction is it's own process.
I'm willing to bet the farm that Reason never gets ARA support. :puf_bigsmile: :lol:
so are you using melodyne as a plugin or not?
i am hearing 2 different things.

so the issue is maybe the .vst plugin is 32 bit or requires ada?

also, regardless of which version of melodyne you use, it’s the same sound quality, and you simply cannot compare reason pitch edit to melodyne. i think the essential locks you out of changing anything besides pitch, but it should sound the same.
basically, i don’t want to drop an extra 400 bucks just to be able to hear my instrument track while editing pitch in melodyne, but it seems even as a vst it wouldn’t help. i have been using reason pitch edit alot, hoping it would sound usable each time i try, but always go back to melodyne and re-importing vocals.

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WeLoveYouToo
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Post 07 Mar 2019

eusti wrote:
06 Mar 2019

Not sure if you are on a Mac or not.
Here's a quote from Celemony from an email exchange a while ago:

"...we do not offer VST2 in 64 bit under macOS.
You will need to ask for VST3 support for Reason, since this newer version has been around for years."
thanks for that heads up, i'm on mojave, yes
Last edited by WeLoveYouToo on 07 Mar 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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WeLoveYouToo
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Post 07 Mar 2019

in case anyone is reading this forum and takes y'alls "advice" that reason and melodyne sound the same, here is a simple comparison of rsn pitch shift vs melodyne that anyone can do in 5 minutes:

i took a kick drum ( AM_BD1_1_FE_RG_R_H03 )from reason drum kits 2.0 and then shifted it down 5 semitones in reason, and then melodyne.
in reason i tried each of the 3 algorithms, they all sounded about the same.
in melodyne i used percussive.

1) original file
2) reason shifted down 5 semitones
3) melodyne shifted down 5 semitones

i did no processing ir editing beyond simply click dragging down 5 semitones.
if you can genuinely say these are "comparable" then i hereby eat my words.


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MattiasHG
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Post 07 Mar 2019

WeLoveYouToo wrote:
07 Mar 2019
also, regardless of which version of melodyne you use, it’s the same sound quality, and you simply cannot compare reason pitch edit to melodyne. i think the essential locks you out of changing anything besides pitch, but it should sound the same.
You can actually compare them. In fact, we did blind tests with Melodyne and our own Pitch Edit on vocals. No one we tested it on could tell the difference and when counting any preferences for one or the other, it was pretty much an even split.

There are of course differences in how you use them, and what I think you're getting at is that Melodyne's leagues ahead on content that isn't vocals, but for vocals I'd say we're on pretty even footing when you get to know it. The Pitch Edit mode in Reason is designed only for vocals really. :)

On a more general note, Reason has three different pitch/time stretch algorithms depending on the content. Melody, vocal and allround. We try to auto-select what makes sense, but you might have to double-check that.

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aeox
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Post 07 Mar 2019

MattiasHG wrote:
07 Mar 2019
WeLoveYouToo wrote:
07 Mar 2019
also, regardless of which version of melodyne you use, it’s the same sound quality, and you simply cannot compare reason pitch edit to melodyne. i think the essential locks you out of changing anything besides pitch, but it should sound the same.
You can actually compare them. In fact, we did blind tests with Melodyne and our own Pitch Edit on vocals. No one we tested it on could tell the difference and when counting any preferences for one or the other, it was pretty much an even split.

There are of course differences in how you use them, and what I think you're getting at is that Melodyne's leagues ahead on content that isn't vocals, but for vocals I'd say we're on pretty even footing when you get to know it. The Pitch Edit mode in Reason is designed only for vocals really. :)

On a more general note, Reason has three different pitch/time stretch algorithms depending on the content. Melody, vocal and allround. We try to auto-select what makes sense, but you might have to double-check that.
I use it on DI guitar all the time, works like a charm!
Random songs/ideas go here:

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WeLoveYouToo
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Post 07 Mar 2019

MattiasHG wrote:
07 Mar 2019
WeLoveYouToo wrote:
07 Mar 2019
also, regardless of which version of melodyne you use, it’s the same sound quality, and you simply cannot compare reason pitch edit to melodyne. i think the essential locks you out of changing anything besides pitch, but it should sound the same.
You can actually compare them. In fact, we did blind tests with Melodyne and our own Pitch Edit on vocals. No one we tested it on could tell the difference and when counting any preferences for one or the other, it was pretty much an even split.

There are of course differences in how you use them, and what I think you're getting at is that Melodyne's leagues ahead on content that isn't vocals, but for vocals I'd say we're on pretty even footing when you get to know it. The Pitch Edit mode in Reason is designed only for vocals really. :)

On a more general note, Reason has three different pitch/time stretch algorithms depending on the content. Melody, vocal and allround. We try to auto-select what makes sense, but you might have to double-check that.
i appreciate you chiming in, but in practice, i have definitely not felt they are comparable.
here's a demo i am working on with a vocalist at the moment. it was recorded in the studio with an sm57 singing along to the monitors as we are figuring out the melody (it's obviously not a final vocal) but i upped the word "you" by 2 semitones in both melodyne and rsn.
you can hear the comb filtering sound that plagues rsn pitch edit. to be fair, at first i tried it with the syllables "lea" and "ving" but they sounded similar.
(she sings "leaving you")
the point is if i do anything more dramatic, or work with harder passages with lots of sibilance, it can get even worse, so i alwasy default to melodyne. now, in the previous bassdrum example, it was apples vs apples, but in this example, i realize melodyne and reason do not auto detect the syllable transitions the same, etc, so it's not a perfect example, but i just want to show the artifacts i constantly hear when using rsn pitch tool. it's good, but not melodyne good.

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EnochLight
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Post 07 Mar 2019

WeLoveYouToo wrote:
07 Mar 2019
in case anyone is reading this forum and takes y'alls "advice" that reason and melodyne sound the same, here is a simple comparison of rsn pitch shift vs melodyne that anyone can do in 5 minutes:

i took a kick drum ( AM_BD1_1_FE_RG_R_H03 )from reason drum kits 2.0 and then shifted it down 5 semitones in reason, and then melodyne.
in reason i tried each of the 3 algorithms, they all sounded about the same.
in melodyne i used percussive.

1) original file
2) reason shifted down 5 semitones
3) melodyne shifted down 5 semitones

i did no processing ir editing beyond simply click dragging down 5 semitones.
if you can genuinely say these are "comparable" then i hereby eat my words.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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ScuzzyEye
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Post 07 Mar 2019

WeLoveYouToo wrote:
07 Mar 2019
so are you using melodyne as a plugin or not?
i am hearing 2 different things.
It works with Reason on Windows as a plug-in. It works best in other DAWs that support VST3 with ARA. It only works on the Mac with DAWs that support VST3, as they've not released a VST2 on that platform.

S1GNL
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Post 07 Mar 2019

WeLoveYouToo wrote:
06 Mar 2019
S1GNL wrote:
06 Mar 2019
What’s wrong with Pitch Edit? What do you miss?
you have clearly never used melodyne.
it’s quality is leagues beyond reason’s native pitch edit. melodyne sounds undetectable. reason’s pitch edit is ok for some uses, but on vocals it’s not ideal unless you want an electronica sound.
plus you can change individual strings pitch in a guitar chord so you can turn a major into a minor
plus you can edit the formants
plus you can edit pitch drift separate from pitch vibrato
plus the transitions between notes are more editable
plus it can pitch correct drums, which in reason i can’t do at all without it sounding like digital artifacts.
but the main difference is quality.
it’s like subtractor vs europa, one is just more capable.
That’s all possible with the Editor version?

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selig
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Post 07 Mar 2019

WeLoveYouToo wrote:
07 Mar 2019

i appreciate you chiming in, but in practice, i have definitely not felt they are comparable.
here's a demo i am working on with a vocalist at the moment. it was recorded in the studio with an sm57 singing along to the monitors as we are figuring out the melody (it's obviously not a final vocal) but i upped the word "you" by 2 semitones in both melodyne and rsn.
you can hear the comb filtering sound that plagues rsn pitch edit. to be fair, at first i tried it with the syllables "lea" and "ving" but they sounded similar.
(she sings "leaving you")
Sure they are comparable, even if you don't feel they sound the same. ;)

They both sounds great to me, and both would work great in a track…but there IS a difference or two between the three versions you provided. For one, the melodyne version has the last word a little sharp from where it should be whereas the Reason version is perfectly in tune. I'd pick the Reason version for tuning accuracy.

Also, the Reason version has a timing change which you can see when you compare each of your three versions side by side. I did my own tuning in Reason using the original file, and there was no timing difference, so I'm not sure why your version has any timing difference - could be something about how you changed the pitch in Reason?

But between the timing difference and the pitch difference, yes there IS a difference. Below, you can see the timing difference in your Reason version (in yellow, third track down):
Screen Shot 2019-03-07 at 12.03.09 PM.png
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EnochLight
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Post 07 Mar 2019

WeLoveYouToo wrote:
07 Mar 2019
so are you using melodyne as a plugin or not?
i am hearing 2 different things.
Voices in your head? Yeah - that's always fun! :lol: ;)

Yes, I use Melodyne Editor as I mentioned earlier in this thread, almost a year ago. Sometimes I'll run it as a plugin inside Reason, and sometimes I'll use it standalone.
WeLoveYouToo wrote:
07 Mar 2019
so the issue is maybe the .vst plugin is 32 bit or requires ada?
It doesn't require ADA, but I think this has already been answered for you.
WeLoveYouToo wrote:
07 Mar 2019
also, regardless of which version of melodyne you use, it’s the same sound quality, and you simply cannot compare reason pitch edit to melodyne. i think the essential locks you out of changing anything besides pitch, but it should sound the same.
basically, i don’t want to drop an extra 400 bucks just to be able to hear my instrument track while editing pitch in melodyne, but it seems even as a vst it wouldn’t help. i have been using reason pitch edit alot, hoping it would sound usable each time i try, but always go back to melodyne and re-importing vocals.
For pitch editing vocals, there simply is no difference between Essentials and Reason's built-in. I've yet to hear any proof that there's a difference, but I'm all ears. If you can create a project file that demonstrates what you're claiming, then go for it. Otherwise, the burden of proof is on you.

That said, I'm not suggesting you're crazy. Clearly you must be hearing something. Perhaps it's a setting? What exactly are you doing to get such drastic differences between Reason and Melodyne? We're talking just vocals, correct?
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WeLoveYouToo
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Post 07 Mar 2019

i respect mattias and selig, so let me just say one final thing becasue this is absolutely ridiculous.
can neither of you two hear the blatent comb filter sound? this is what i often come accross in reason pitch edit.

first of all, neither reason nor melodyne auto split the word “you” so i just used the razor tool, it may not have been in the exact same spot, but the point is that i just showed you an example of what i am talking about, it’s not a proffesional a/b i am doing here, its for illustrative purposes so you know what sound i am refferencing.
if you all cannot hear the comb filter sound in the reason version, then i say enjoy tuning vocals with reason to your hearts content. to me, it is very obvious and what i would consider unusable.

i am not going to spend anymore time on this, i have supplied a drum and a vocal both showing how terrible reason’s pitch adjust can sound where melodyne shines. i am not saying reason pitch edit is terrible, but its not polished enough to replace melodyne.
if you disagree, then good for you, but the proof is right here.
if you want me to spend anymore time provinding you exact comparisons, pay me for my time and i will, but i do not have any collection of comparisons because when i hear a bad pitch edit, i dont bounce it, i work in melodyne instead. i have gone out of my way to show instances in both drums and vocals where reason craps out from scratch just to illustrate a point. if this is unsatisfactory, i am sorry but i stand by my efforts which i believe are more than enough to illustrate what i am saying.

i did not intend this to be a melodyne vs rsn pitch thread. i could care less what someone else thinks when i have my own ears.

this thread was originally about vst implementation which i STILL am not understanding by the way.
how can you use melodyne as a vst in reason like you said?

also, to the person that asks what melodyne editor does, it says it on their website in the comparison screen. the only feature in studio i have really been jealous of is the multi track editing, off phand i dont know what the other differences are

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ScuzzyEye
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Post 07 Mar 2019

WeLoveYouToo wrote:
07 Mar 2019
this thread was originally about vst implementation which i STILL am not understanding by the way.
how can you use melodyne as a vst in reason like you said?

also, to the person that asks what melodyne editor does, it says it on their website in the comparison screen. the only feature in studio i have really been jealous of is the multi track editing, off phand i dont know what the other differences are
We can use the Melodyne VST because we're on Windows.

It was the multi-track feature that made me switch to Melodyne. Being able to see the target notes (export vocal guide track with a simple sine synth) while doing corrections, makes the process so much faster. I was really hoping Reason's multi-track feature would let me see MIDI and audio at the same time.

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