How to run loads more VSTs without buying a new CPU

Discuss VST stuff here!
danc
Posts: 1017
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

04 Feb 2018

Let me warn you before I begin. I am going to write quite a bit. So, grab yourself a coffee. Don't scan read. I have made some important discoveries... and you wont waste your time. Promise!

I have been on a mission of late. I want to increase the number of VSTs I run, without resorting to expensive CPU upgrades. Yes... I know… there are already quite a few REASONTALK forum chats already on this subject - but I would like to take things in a different direction, as I think the discussions so far haven't truly found a solution. Not everyone wants to spend hundreds of pounds to get a new faster computer. Plus it's a lot of effort setting it all up - especially registering all of those VSTs you have.

So - what's the solution? Is there one? Yes there is! Before I explain my solution, let me explain how I got to my solution.... When I look at forums for other DAWs (yes, the dark side!), these other DAW users do seem to manage to run a lot more VSTs all at once than we can in Reason when using similar spec CPUs/CORES/RAM etc.
(this isn't a scientific conclusion - just an educated hunch)... So, this hunch was also made by watching all of those Youtube tutorial videos and it does appear that these dark-side DAW users are running a lot of VSTs without killing their CPUs. So why can't I do that in Reason?

Before I give you my solution. Let's do a little house keeping. Optimise your computer. Windows users should follow the steps given by Focusrite: https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/ ... Windows-10 If you have a MAC then take a look at https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/ ... -for-Audio.

This really does help. A lot, but not enough.

If you still want much more grunt... and you can't get Reason to give you a load of VSTs... then let's trick Reason instead!!

How? Here goes... Buy yourself a copy of Computer Music magazine (£6.99) and install the free Nyrv Agent CM VST plugin - – which is given away on the cover DVD every month. Now…. Each time you want to run a VST, instead of running it directly in the rack… Load and run AGENT CM. Then load your VST inside this VST host and you will save absolutely shed load of CPU.


Don’t worry, you can totally automate all the hosted VSTs, just like you can if you ran the VST direct. Plus you are given a really powerful set of tools to make automation controls in AGENT CM. But that isn’t the point of this forum post – just an aside.

How much CPU saving am I getting. Well… take for example… I can load 8 instances of Izotope Ozone 8 inside AGENT CM and the DSP hardly moves. If I did this direct in Reason I would eat 100% of that DSP just by running 2 Ozone's. That often seen popup YOUR COMPUTER IS TOO SLOW BLAH BLAH message will appear. Ozone 8 really loves to use your CPU… but not anymore!

Before you shoot me and you will. You will tell me that there are loads of VST hosts out there. What's so special about AGENT CM? Yes, there are loads of VST hosts… however, AGENT CM is quite unique…

A. If there is no audio running through AGENT CM, all of the VSTs that you have running in AGENT CM take zero CPU. Yes – ZERO. It’s like magic. It’s like your sequencer isn’t running. What's clever here is that... for each section in your music you are likely to use different VSTs. So... in a section of your music where some of your VSTs aren't producing any audio... they will sit there taking up no CPU. If you did this in the normal way, they would be taking up your CPU even when doing nothing.

B. You can automate the switching ON and OFF of each VST hosted inside AGENT. This is useful when you have 1 effect in a set of many that is only used for one little bit in your music. If the VST is set to OFF... then zero CPU is used. Even more magic! Reason doesn't let you switch VSTs ON/OFF and so they would normally always take up precious CPU. Not anymore!

I have tried nearly all of the VST hosts out there, and most of them don’t have the feature of NO AUDIO = NO CPU usage. For example: Blue Cat Audio Patchwork (and their other host plugins like Late Replies etc) use this same type of technology, but these plugins cost quite a bit of money. AGENT CM is given away for free.

BTW – some other dark-side DAWs have this Zero Audio = Zero CPU technology built in. Hopefully Propellerheads will add this into Reason 11. Until then… use AGENT CM.

Also – there is a paid for version of AGENT. There are a few extra bells and whistles, but the CPU saving is similar in both versions. With CM they don’t give you all of the extra useful resources – however, if you install the paid for version demo… you can copy the resources across to CM and they work – without spending a penny!

Ok - I've rambled on and on. Bye! Oh wait on... I did spend 2 days trying to use Vienna Emsemble Pro, which allows you to run VSTs on multiple computers, all connected via Ethernet cable. It's a great idea. But there are many practical problems... but that's for another topic. For most people they just want/need to use 1 computer.
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raymondh
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Joined: 15 Jan 2015

04 Feb 2018

Right, I'm off to track down a shop for CM magazine!!!

Thanks for the tip!

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miscend
Posts: 1955
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

04 Feb 2018

I’m amazed at the CPU savings you are claiming here. That would be incredible if true. But then again £6 is a lot to spend on a magazine filled with regurgitated articles that I’ll will never read.

Also are there any practicality issues with using a VST to host other VSTs? Is there chance of plugin recall settings getting lost?

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raymondh
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Joined: 15 Jan 2015

04 Feb 2018

It looks like this may not be the solution I'd hoped it to be;

This is like a rack to hold consecutive 'effect' VST units in a chain. And for that, it could be great.

It does not appear to be a wrapper/host for VST instruments (VSTi ). Therefore not a solution to enable a bunch of Repro-5 synths with less CPU hit....

Does that sound correct?

danc
Posts: 1017
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

05 Feb 2018

raymondh wrote:
04 Feb 2018
It looks like this may not be the solution I'd hoped it to be;

This is like a rack to hold consecutive 'effect' VST units in a chain. And for that, it could be great.

It does not appear to be a wrapper/host for VST instruments (VSTi ). Therefore not a solution to enable a bunch of Repro-5 synths with less CPU hit....

Does that sound correct?
I have been hosting (wrapping or whatever it should be called) both my instrument VSTs and effect VSTs inside Agent CM.

To be able to send MIDI note data to Agent CM effect VST, load one up... then right click on the rack item and click "Create track for Agent CM". It doesn't initially have any note lanes. You just need to add one by clicking the + button "Add Note lane". You can then play the effect just like you would any instrument.

In terms of using less CPU - I am most definitely getting better performance from hosting rather than direct. I would love to hear other people's results. I can't be the only person getting drastically better performance.

As for CM magazine. Yes - the tutorials are repeated relentlessly. The articles and reviews are worth a read though.
Last edited by danc on 05 Feb 2018, edited 1 time in total.
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danc
Posts: 1017
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

05 Feb 2018

miscend wrote:
04 Feb 2018
Also are there any practicality issues with using a VST to host other VSTs? Is there chance of plugin recall settings getting lost?
When you save your project, all of the settings on all of the hosted VSTS inside AGENT CM are saved as well. Nothing is lost.
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Pralijah
Posts: 105
Joined: 17 Feb 2017

05 Feb 2018

Worth a try. I recall that there is a whole bunch of VST´s for free when buying a CM? Or do one have to sign a subscription to get access to all the earlier give-aways?
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danc
Posts: 1017
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

05 Feb 2018

Pralijah wrote:
05 Feb 2018
Worth a try. I recall that there is a whole bunch of VST´s for free when buying a CM? Or do one have to sign a subscription to get access to all the earlier give-aways?
It's included on the DVD. No registration or subscription required. And you don't need a serial for the CM version of the plugin. Just install and run it.
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guitfnky
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05 Feb 2018

hey, thanks for the tip, looking forward to trying this out. you also don't need to buy a physical copy. I was able to buy it digitally for $5 here: http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/com ... 015-627399

there are a couple of steps after you buy to access the downloads, but it wasn't much hassle. :thumbs_up:
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danc
Posts: 1017
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

05 Feb 2018

guitfnky wrote:
05 Feb 2018
hey, thanks for the tip, looking forward to trying this out. you also don't need to buy a physical copy. I was able to buy it digitally for $5 here: http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/com ... 015-627399

there are a couple of steps after you buy to access the downloads, but it wasn't much hassle. :thumbs_up:
I got my AGENT CM install from this months CM DVD. It's included with every issue of CM, irrespective what month you buy. You don't need to buy the original magazine from 2015. CM put all the old plugin giveaways from all previous months on the DVD.

Oh and as you say - you can get it if you buy the digital e-magazine version. So you don't need to have a physical copy of the magazine.
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mtbh
Posts: 45
Joined: 09 Jun 2017

05 Feb 2018

I will have to try this, thanx :thumbs_up:

WongoTheSane
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05 Feb 2018

Just tested this and can confirm: it cuts the CPU use by 50% on the VSTIs I tried it on. Well spotted, danc!

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riemac
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Location: Germany

05 Feb 2018

WongoTheSane wrote:
05 Feb 2018
Just tested this and can confirm: it cuts the CPU use by 50% on the VSTIs I tried it on. Well spotted, danc!

Do you mean VST FX or VST-Instruments?

WongoTheSane
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05 Feb 2018

riemac wrote:
05 Feb 2018
WongoTheSane wrote:
05 Feb 2018
Just tested this and can confirm: it cuts the CPU use by 50% on the VSTIs I tried it on. Well spotted, danc!

Do you mean VST FX or VST-Instruments?
Instruments. I haven't had time to check it on effects yet.

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joeyluck
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05 Feb 2018

I'm curious what makes it different from other hosts/wrappers? Or I wonder if it's a similar case with any wrapper like this?

EdGrip
Posts: 2343
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

05 Feb 2018

If Props can't engineer around the CV-related buffer size thing, they can at least implement this natively.
Shall we email them?

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tobypearce
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05 Feb 2018

Interesting.
If you watch through the video:


the mind boggles as to how superb it would be natively in Reason. For example at minute 7, the editing reminds me of tweaking combinator settings.

If combinator 2.0 had some of the functionality of nyrv agent, then wow......
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joeyluck
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05 Feb 2018

Was looking forward to giving this a shot, but appears it might not work on macOS High Sierra? Agent CM is a bit older. But it does tell me I have the latest version when telling it to check for updates.

When using the plugin within Reason, it tells me it can't find the PluginScanner app. It's installed. If I launch the app outside of Reason and then tell it to scan for VSTs in my VST folder, it crashes.

The Agent CM VST loads in Reason, but no VSTs to be loaded within it...

:(

[EDIT] I managed to get it to scan all the plugins by running the scan many times...after realizing it was successfully scanning a few each time before crashing and picking up where it left off.

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EnochLight
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05 Feb 2018

Just tried it. Way too buggy on my system - keeps crashing. I'll pass....
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xylyx
Posts: 232
Joined: 11 Feb 2015

05 Feb 2018

Can anyone tell me what the most recent version number is for Agent CM on PC? The reason I ask is that it is constantly crashing for me with most of the plugins I try hosting (effects)...fortunately, it is not making Reason crash.

WongoTheSane
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05 Feb 2018

xylyx wrote:
05 Feb 2018
Can anyone tell me what the most recent version number is for Agent CM on PC? The reason I ask is that it is constantly crashing for me with most of the plugins I try hosting (effects)...fortunately, it is not making Reason crash.
It's 1.1.0.0.

It is very unstable; I don't think it can be used in production. It's just a very interesting lead for future optimization inside Reason itself.

mtbh
Posts: 45
Joined: 09 Jun 2017

05 Feb 2018

Having tested this only with the Korg Oddysey plugin - this make me able to use 16 voice unison patches that would chrash my 2600K and I can have several instances of the Korg plugin running at the same time, without audio noise. Reason would go crazy before with just one heavy unison patch. So it looks promising ! Very cool! Thanx, Danc :clap:

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xylyx
Posts: 232
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05 Feb 2018

WongoTheSane wrote:
05 Feb 2018
xylyx wrote:
05 Feb 2018
Can anyone tell me what the most recent version number is for Agent CM on PC? The reason I ask is that it is constantly crashing for me with most of the plugins I try hosting (effects)...fortunately, it is not making Reason crash.
It's 1.1.0.0.

It is very unstable; I don't think it can be used in production. It's just a very interesting lead for future optimization inside Reason itself.
Thanks. Looked promising but not something I would put any trust in. Hopefully, the current silence from the Props means that they are working on improving the efficiency in Reason themselves, although I haven't upgraded to v10, so may not benefit even if they are.

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Oquasec
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05 Feb 2018

Wouldn't you be using the reason bridge to load that in there?
I use minihost modular for example in either reason vst bridge or the standalone plugin.
Or rewire with ableton.
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Marco Raaphorst
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05 Feb 2018

a very simple and cheap trick: make your decisions earlier.

in stead of running effects live, add them to a track and convert to audio.

The Beatles used to work like that. Bowie too. recorded with effects. Heroes with that Flanger on the bass. not being afraid. decide now! :D

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